Do people honestly think that management hasn't tried getting upgrades? There probably are some available. They could probably snag someone like OEL from Arizona. But is it worth giving up Gardiner and one of our top 3 forwards (because that's what they'd probably be asking as minimum)? No. You take the offers when they're available. It's not like NHL 15 where I could 1 for 1 Kadri for Toews. They were probably also looking at offers for JVR and Bozak at the deadline. But if the offer wasn't good enough, they weren't going to take it. Management has done a damn good job so far. Trust 'em, and give them time to make the right moves. Unless you want them to make a splash during free agency, and sign a Clarkson-like contract, just for the sake of making headlines.
Line Combos: TOR needs to **** or get off the pot in regards to our defense
- Thread starter ottomaddox
- Start date
Tak7
Registered User
I think Babs manages his time if he has some other options that he can rely on.
People are mad that Babcock used Jake so much. Did the Leafs have Lidstrom sitting on the bench waiting to absorb minutes??
Tak7
Registered User
Or Burns?
Both now playing D.
Do i need to tell you how their games differ from Jake? Or can we finally put this nonsense to bed
Pookie
Wear a mask
- Oct 23, 2013
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Some Fans aren’t willing to pay the price for a Subban for Weber type deal that would make a difference.
It’s going to take a Kadri or Nylander or Gardiner (maybe that one would fly with some) in a package. Or it will take one of them and a draft pick(s) to make a deal of substance.
Either way it’s risky.
Swervin81
Leaf fan | YYZ -> SEA
Rielly, Gardiner, Dermott, and Borgman are a solid depth of D on the left side. Hell, Marincin and Rosen being way far down on the depth chart look nice to have when injuries arise.
The right side is where our sad state of affairs is, because it has to be the worst in the league.
Hainsey: A meh top 4 guy that's a really good stabilizer when paired with the right guy and not overplayed to death. We paired him with the right guy but overplayed him to death and he became useless after a certain point. He can't be taking full PK's anymore and his minutes should be reduced a bit throughout the season. He also handles the puck like it's a grenade.
Zaitsev: A bottom pairing guy that can put up a few points but is an absolute tire fire defensively and at breaking out. He throws bombs up the ice and ices the puck and turns it over a ton (terrible possession stats too). He's never in good position to support his partner and we wonder why Rielly and Gardiner have each looked markedly worse playing with Zaitsev when they have to do everything. He's miscast as a top defensive guy when he should be sheltered quite a lot more and is a bottom pairing guy that may become a fringe top 4 guy if he defies the age curve. And oh dear god, he's getting paid $4.5M for the next 6 years. f*** me.
Polak: Is a 7/8th d-man miscast as a permanent bottom pairing defensive guy when he is really only good for a few niche cases, like being physical and clearing guys out and disrupting a cycle. But you know what's better than that? Not having to be in a position where you're hemmed in and have to brea k things up all the time. Takes way too many dumb penalties and handles the puck as if it's a grenade. We get routinely hemmed in when he is on the ice. He has his role as a depth guy when injuries arise, but no more.
Carrick: 7th/8th guy. Doesn't produce much offensively, takes way too many dumb penalties, is soft on the puck. Next.
Yeah, that's straight trash. One fringe top 4 guy that needs his minutes reduced, 1 bottom pairing guy, and 2 guys who are depth d-men at best.
What we need on D are two things, three ideally:
1. A permanent top pairing franchise-caliber fixture
2. A stopgap till Liljegren arrives
3. (Ideal) Offloading Zaitsev's contract.
We can deal with Hainsey acting as number 2 if we find a way to make Zaitsev's contract work and he improves but otherwise... ouch. We have our work cut out there.
The right side is where our sad state of affairs is, because it has to be the worst in the league.
Hainsey: A meh top 4 guy that's a really good stabilizer when paired with the right guy and not overplayed to death. We paired him with the right guy but overplayed him to death and he became useless after a certain point. He can't be taking full PK's anymore and his minutes should be reduced a bit throughout the season. He also handles the puck like it's a grenade.
Zaitsev: A bottom pairing guy that can put up a few points but is an absolute tire fire defensively and at breaking out. He throws bombs up the ice and ices the puck and turns it over a ton (terrible possession stats too). He's never in good position to support his partner and we wonder why Rielly and Gardiner have each looked markedly worse playing with Zaitsev when they have to do everything. He's miscast as a top defensive guy when he should be sheltered quite a lot more and is a bottom pairing guy that may become a fringe top 4 guy if he defies the age curve. And oh dear god, he's getting paid $4.5M for the next 6 years. f*** me.
Polak: Is a 7/8th d-man miscast as a permanent bottom pairing defensive guy when he is really only good for a few niche cases, like being physical and clearing guys out and disrupting a cycle. But you know what's better than that? Not having to be in a position where you're hemmed in and have to brea k things up all the time. Takes way too many dumb penalties and handles the puck as if it's a grenade. We get routinely hemmed in when he is on the ice. He has his role as a depth guy when injuries arise, but no more.
Carrick: 7th/8th guy. Doesn't produce much offensively, takes way too many dumb penalties, is soft on the puck. Next.
Yeah, that's straight trash. One fringe top 4 guy that needs his minutes reduced, 1 bottom pairing guy, and 2 guys who are depth d-men at best.
What we need on D are two things, three ideally:
1. A permanent top pairing franchise-caliber fixture
2. A stopgap till Liljegren arrives
3. (Ideal) Offloading Zaitsev's contract.
We can deal with Hainsey acting as number 2 if we find a way to make Zaitsev's contract work and he improves but otherwise... ouch. We have our work cut out there.
ottomaddox
Registered User
This team's success in the past has been risk taking. Nothing wrong with trading to land the right parts as opposed to fan favorites.
Toronto ended up with some of the best or most beloved players through trades.
Some examples:
Bryan Berard from NYI for Felix Potvin
Darcy Tucker from TBL for Mike Johnson
Bryan McCabe from CHI for Alexander Karpovtsev
Plenty of risk here. Some of these players fans loved.
ShaneFalco
Registered User
When sharks went to final two years ago, only two players was below zero in +/- . Brandon Dillon and Roman Polak was -5. For Leafs against Boston this year Polak was nr 1 with +3.
Strange that so many fans still don't realize that Zaitsev had a very good 4th quarter of the season and was probably our best dman in the Boston series.
I can only assume that they are reading certain pundits and not watching the games.
I can only assume that they are reading certain pundits and not watching the games.
Menzinger
Kessel4LadyByng
There have only been two #1 D men traded in recent years and they were each moved for one another.
This idea that the Leafs can just trade for one doesn’t seem to be grounded in reality.
Pookie
Wear a mask
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Who said #1? Subban for Weber was an example I used of like talent for like talent. An actual hockey deal. As opposed to rental deals we have done.
If you get a #2-4, everyone below moves back a step. Boosts depth. Weathers injuries. All that good stuff.
Havoc
Registered User
- Jul 25, 2009
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There were 4 tiers these playoffs:
Tier 1: Bolts Bruins
Tier 2: Leafs
Tier 3: Caps and Pens
Tier 4: Everyone else
Playoff format isn't setup for Leafs current tier as we're only two seasons from finishing last in the entire league yet have to face tier 1 in round 1. What our young team needed was to feast on Murray and Pens D to gain the experience needed to take on the Bruins in the second round instead of the first. The first 2 games is proof of that. Caps last year were an easier opponent than Boston this year. We had no idea what to do in game 1 and 2. We won the best of 5 after learning from those 2 games.
We're not 3-4 D away lol. We just need one to move Gardiner one spot down in the depth chart and bank on our young guys being even better next year. Probably need to sign a forward for JVR as well.
Tier 1: Bolts Bruins
Tier 2: Leafs
Tier 3: Caps and Pens
Tier 4: Everyone else
Playoff format isn't setup for Leafs current tier as we're only two seasons from finishing last in the entire league yet have to face tier 1 in round 1. What our young team needed was to feast on Murray and Pens D to gain the experience needed to take on the Bruins in the second round instead of the first. The first 2 games is proof of that. Caps last year were an easier opponent than Boston this year. We had no idea what to do in game 1 and 2. We won the best of 5 after learning from those 2 games.
We're not 3-4 D away lol. We just need one to move Gardiner one spot down in the depth chart and bank on our young guys being even better next year. Probably need to sign a forward for JVR as well.
Why would we waste our time with Gardiner as a winger when that is our strentgh and there's no room or time to develop him there?
ITM
Out on the front line, don't worry I'll be fine...
- Jan 26, 2012
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ITM
Out on the front line, don't worry I'll be fine...
- Jan 26, 2012
- 4,620
- 2,578
Edited above to say:
Two-time defending Stanley Cup champion could be a three time defending Stanley Cup champion by the end of it all.
Bolts and Bruins are close, with bona fide star power throughout. Caps are in the tier below for similar reasons and they beat us last year.
Then it's us...And very closely behind, the Jackets and the Devils.
I think we switch with Washington soon though...But we were never above them and nowhere near the Penguins.
He was also a forward in college....the people who laugh aren't really thinking about it.
"He's a 28 year old Dman, who has played D his entire NHL career and pre-NHL career."
He actually played forward before college & in college....
And you really could just snap your finger & turn him into a winger....it's a lot easier than D.
One player is not the answer because it is a team game, but one player can set the defense pairs much better. watch:
Leafs defense against the Bruins:
Rielly - Hainsey
Gardiner - Zaitsev
Dermott - Polak
If the Leafs can somehow get a big minute guy:
Rielly - ?????
Gardiner - Hainsey
Dermott - Zaitsev
That looks a lot better, with just 1 addition. Especially if that ????? can be a defense-first two-way defender with a willingness to play physical and if Zaitsev can get his legs back and play like he did in the last 3 games of the Bruins series. Plus, Hainsey gets less minutes and would be better rested, and while Rielly was hurt we saw that Jake and Hainsey played well together. And Dermott - Zaitsev could be a fantastic 3rd pair and give the Leafs a matchup advantage. Or drop Hainsey to the 3rd pairing to mentor Dermott or promote Dermott and limit the defensive gaffes Gardiner may commit.
Leafs defense against the Bruins:
Rielly - Hainsey
Gardiner - Zaitsev
Dermott - Polak
If the Leafs can somehow get a big minute guy:
Rielly - ?????
Gardiner - Hainsey
Dermott - Zaitsev
That looks a lot better, with just 1 addition. Especially if that ????? can be a defense-first two-way defender with a willingness to play physical and if Zaitsev can get his legs back and play like he did in the last 3 games of the Bruins series. Plus, Hainsey gets less minutes and would be better rested, and while Rielly was hurt we saw that Jake and Hainsey played well together. And Dermott - Zaitsev could be a fantastic 3rd pair and give the Leafs a matchup advantage. Or drop Hainsey to the 3rd pairing to mentor Dermott or promote Dermott and limit the defensive gaffes Gardiner may commit.
hockeyes
Registered User
- Jun 15, 2013
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Minus the fact that we don't have 6 or 7 d better than Polak. Don't get me wrong, he is good at what he does, but he shouldn't be anywhere near a contenders lineup.
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