Line Combos: TOR needs to **** or get off the pot in regards to our defense

[ShaneFalco]

A team that is as defensively challenged as the Leafs, don't need to look at trading away one of it's better Dmen - even if he had one really tough game.

That sort of knee-jerk reaction is very similar to what the organization did after the 2013 game 7 loss.

You can't make determinations and decisions on a team based on one single game.

Agreed. But there is a large body of work here with Gardiner. Lou et al will have to look at the makeup of the team, what they think his contract demands will be (at age 28), what options they have for trades etc

 

[Tak7]

Agreed. But there is a large body of work here with Gardiner. Lou et al will have to look at the makeup of the team, what they think his contract demands will be (at age 28), what options they have for trades etc

Yep I agree.

Personally I keep Gardiner and see if you can get him a solid partner. But absolutely you have to look at all options when it comes to improving your blueline.

It's just going to take one hell of a deal to move a 50-point Dman

 

[colchar]

Fully agree. This is by far Lou's biggest failing as GM. A+ forwards, A+ goalie and C- defense. That might be a bit generous too.
Either way, he's done as GM and the d will look reasonably different to start the season.

And A grade defencemen are just sitting there for the taking are they?

 

[ottomaddox]

Getting defenders good enough to make a difference is not easy, and desperation would only lead to a bad deal. It's the area of improvement for us, along with defensive awareness among forwards, but it's not an easy nut to crack.

You're right, but the management group must exercise some risk. "Desperation" is an overpayment at the deadline (JFJ/Quinn style). Using futures, trading young forwards (we have some of these right?), adding draft picks in a trade, and signing good UFAs in July is not.

How long do we ensure first round exits from poor defensive play?

 

[Brolaf]

Upgrading the D is going to be management's biggest challenge going forward.

There aren't any short term solutions that don't involve giving up an important forward or significant draft picks and futures.

I think the answer has to be found internally through smart drafting and development. In addition to personnel its also its worth questioning to what extent the team's defensive deficiencies are due to poor tactics. Does the team's style of play fully leverage its strengths at forward while mitigating the weak defense?

 

[ottomaddox]

And A grade defencemen are just sitting there for the taking are they?

Not really, but TOR has to do something. Either pay up, try something risky, or possibly trade up in the draft using one of our current players to snag a promising D prospect.

 

[Sniper99]

Crying about it the morning after a game 7 loss is a hot take.

No, it really isn't its the damn truth

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

No, it really isn't its the damn truth

It was "the damn truth" in September. So either people were too stupid to see it then, or its a hot take.

Choose one.

 

[Mess]

It was "the damn truth" in September. So either people were too stupid to see it then, or its a hot take.

Choose one.

Lots of Leaf fans thought Leafs defense wasn't good enough in the preseason and needed major work and when it wasn't addressed at the TD its not a hot take is more "I told you so" moment for those same fans.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Lots of Leaf fans thought Leafs defense wasn't good enough in the preseason and needed major work and when it wasn't addressed at the TD its not a hot take is more "I told you so" moment for those same fans.

I'm not sure what's worse; a hot take steeped in remedial thought or a petulant "I told you so" directed at people who likely agreed.

No question mark as the question is rhetorical.

 

[StatsNightHeroes]

The D are certainly a weakness but a huge problem this series was the wingers failing to get the puck out from the half wall.

Team defense is the name of the game. Not sure how exactly Babcock wants the wingers playing in the D zone but to me it seems like they are always caught in between covering the point or coming down low to help out in the corners. They spend lots of time doing neither from what I’ve seen.

 

[colchar]

Not really, but TOR has to do something. Either pay up, try something risky, or possibly trade up in the draft using one of our current players to snag a promising D prospect.

And if they spend assets to do that half of their fanbase here will lose their freaking minds about spending assets.

 

[ottomaddox]

Lots of Leaf fans thought Leafs defense wasn't good enough in the preseason and needed major work and when it wasn't addressed at the TD its not a hot take is more "I told you so" moment for those same fans.

Perhaps, but for me it's a wish list.

Hard for a lot of people to admit that our trade deadline results also spoke loudly about our chances in the playoffs.

 

[Tak7]

I would not hesitate to trade Gardiner and Rielly if the return was Drew Doughty.

I dislike Gardiner's constant brain farts game after game after game. Rielly is not a bonafide #1D as he too commits brain farts and does not possess a shot from the point that would break one of Lupul's bones!

So you'd trade 2 top 4 Dmen (one who's taken massive strides this year and has the potential to be a top pairing guy), for a #1 D man?

You do know that you need 5 other Dmen playing on any given night, even if you have a #1, right?

 

[Trapper]

Getting defenders good enough to make a difference is not easy, and desperation would only lead to a bad deal. It's the area of improvement for us, along with defensive awareness among forwards, but it's not an easy nut to crack.

It can be done without the big names of Doughty/Karlsson/whoever.
It also requires a more balanced forward squad who are not specialists and can play the 200 foot game.
Vegas is a perfect indication of that.
For the most part, who can name the Las Vegas top 6 without looking.
It's the proper compliment, not always the high dollar, sexy names. D was moved and available during expansion and we had a pending UFA to take advantage of that. Another Johnsson + a Miller or something would have gone a long way IMO.

 

[RoyalCitySlicker]

I'm not sure what's worse; a hot take steeped in remedial thought or a petulant "I told you so" directed at people who likely agreed.

No question mark as the question is rhetorical.

I'm pretty sure you coming in here to tell fans what is and what is not an acceptable response to a pretty emotional game seven loss would be the definition of "what's worse".

 

[Spirit of 67]

Or, ya know, patience.

Just because things aren't happening as fast as fans want, doesn't mean they're doing it wrong.

 

[Nithoniniel]

It can be done without the big names of Doughty/Karlsson/whoever.
It also requires a more balanced forward squad who are not specialists and can play the 200 foot game.
Vegas is a perfect indication of that.
For the most part, who can name the Las Vegas top 6 without looking.
It's the proper compliment, not always the high dollar, sexy names. D was moved and available during expansion and we had a pending UFA to take advantage of that. Another Johnsson + a Miller or something would have gone a long way IMO.

Well a large part of that is that they have some excellent pieces that are just not very well known. Their first pairing is excellent, and Colin Miller is similar to Gardiner in many ways.

But they are definitely a team that benefits a lot by team play. One of the weakest parts of our game this series was forward support for our d-men. Forwards simply didn't work hard enough to provide alternatives when they could on the breakout, they cheated when they thought they could in supporting pinching d-men, and they didn't do a good enough job at jumping in to fish out lose pucks that our d-men worked free.

 

[Nalens Oga]

Morgan Rielly is too good to move.

But if Lou can't add at least two proper dmen this season and can't trade for at least one then the he can f*** off. He tbh hasn't added a single one outside of a couple plays at European FAs and Hainsey, no trades.

 

[54thecup]

Our lack of D has been noted by pretty much everyone in hockey since the start of the "new era" last season.

Its not a hot take whatsoever.

Yes it is and welcome to the cap era NHL. Do more with less!

Ask Edmonton or Calgary, they would luv our problem! Ask Pitts, they seem to figure it out! Would anyone want Price or Weber on our payroll for next season?

Lou tried a few options and only got Hainsey. Good add for the price! Had Hamonic came we may have had something real to hate on him for!

I see Jake and one of great forwards Willy, Johnny or Kappy as being expendible for us to get our core RHD but its always a gamble! I want Hamilton, but Boston made a bad deal IMO and they look pretty good anyways....

 

[Peiskos]

The offence is good enough to win a cup, the goaltending is good enough too...you can't really blame Andersen for having an AHL caliber D corps in front of him.

Toronto will have to trade away one of its forwards for a defender. It was nice to see Dermott make the jump this year...maybe Timothy Liljegren will do that next year? I believe we'll make the playoffs again next year but until something is done to improve that area it will be 1st round exits.

Overall it seems to be consensus fact, the Leafs defence is not good enough.

 

[Al14]

Morgan Rielly is too good to move.

But if Lou can't add at least two proper dmen this season and can't trade for at least one then the he can **** off. He tbh hasn't added a single one outside of a couple plays at European FAs and Hainsey, no trades.

You really think so? He has too many brain farts for my liking. As well, he seriously lacks a hard shot from the point. Sure, he skates very well, but, there has to be more to a #1 D than just being a good skater.

At times he shows flashes of being a playmaker, but, those are few and far in between. At this point in time, I see him as a solid #3 D that can be a #2 D in a pinch. JMHO.

I would move him in a trade for Drew Doughty!

 

[Peiskos]

You really think so? He has too many brain farts for my liking. As well, he seriously lacks a hard shot from the point. Sure, he skates very well, but, there has to be more to a #1 D than just being a good skater.

At times he shows flashes of being a playmaker, but, those are few and far in between. At this point in time, I see him as a solid #3 D that can be a #2 D in a pinch. JMHO.

It would be a very mad mistake to trade Morgan Rielly, he was on the top pairing for the World Cup NA team for a reason. He's 24 and had a 52 point season, he's on a decent contract too.

 

[Al14]

It would be a very mad mistake to trade Morgan Rielly, he was on the top pairing for the World Cup NA team for a reason. He's 24 and had a 52 point season, he's on a decent contract too.

We shall see in the long run! I too like his potential, but, does he have it in him to be a true #1 D? I'm not sure yet.

 

[Vexed]

It's an emotional time for sure. I think the issues with the squad are obvious and don't really need to be rehashed. What I think though is that we aren't behind where we should be at this stage. I would argue we are still far ahead. So I am disappointed, I thought we could have won but we went out playing hard and playing our game. I think this management group is entering the stage though where they will be more seriously judged on the moves they make next.