Line Combos: TOR needs to **** or get off the pot in regards to our defense

ottomaddox

Registered User
Oct 31, 2017
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4,600
Toronto
How many games do we have to see our D bailed out by our goalie, or our scoring talent (forwards)?

How many playoff series do we have to lose?

Why hang on so long to all the wrong parts?

You can't just come in year after year and blame the 5th and 6th D for TOR's woes. We need some fresh eyes and a serious long look at our defense.

Are we missing just 1 guy?
Will Liljegren be the answer?

No. We might still be missing 3 or 4 D.

We have to take some risks here.

Yes that means possibly parting with Jake or Morgan!

The D is not working!
 
Last edited:

Crysis

Registered User
Jun 28, 2015
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296
Fully agree. This is by far Lou's biggest failing as GM. A+ forwards, A+ goalie and C- defense. That might be a bit generous too.
Either way, he's done as GM and the d will look reasonably different to start the season.
 
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Goonface2k14

Registered User
Nov 25, 2009
2,649
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Maple Leaf Gardens
How many games do we have to see our D bailed out by or goalie, or our scoring talent (forwards)?
  • Pretty much all of them.

How many playoff series do we have to lose?
  • As many as they play in, as long as Gardiner is playing big minutes

Why hang on so long to all the wrong parts?
  • We fall for it. We pay and we watch and they cash in.

You can't just come in year after year and blame the 5th and 6th D for TOR's woes. We need some fresh eyes and a serious long look at our defense.

  • Sky is blue.

Are we missing just 1 guy?
  • No, more than that. Obviously need more than just one capable defenseman. Even Hainsey is a #3 or #4, at best, on a decent team. Need more physicality up front.
Will Liljegren be the answer?
  • No. One guy is never the answer.
No. We might still be missing 3 or 4 D.
  • Correct
We have to take some risks here.
  • Calculated risks, not gunslinger Brian Burke type of risks.

Yes that means possibly parting with Jake or Morgan!
  • Parting with Morgan will set them back even further. Exact opposite sentiment for Jake. I've felt that way about Jake for a long time. Loved him when he was a rookie, but it's been downhill ever since. He suffered a concussion in the minors after his rookie season and I've always wondered if that messed his game up. Sure he can rush up the ice with the best of them and can make magical offensive plays every now and again. But the overall body of work, especially his slow down in his own zone to wait and make a hail mary stretch pass is not a sustainable style of play to win, especially in the playoffs. Yet the coach still continues to give him top pairing minutes.

The D is not working!
  • Fire is hot.


 

mapleleafs34

Registered User
Apr 7, 2011
1,082
1,264
The only locks for next season on the blueline should be:
Rielly (Top pairing no doubt)
Zaitsev (2nd or 3rd pairing)
Dermott (3rd pairing would be ideal but might be forced into top 4 role if Gardiner gets moved)
Hainsey (If we acquire a top pairing D than Hainsey with Dermott on 3rd pair would be great, or else he'll be with Rielly)

Gardiner and Carrick could be moved this offseason. Polak could be brought back as #6D or #7D. Rosen and Borgman probably only D from Marlies to challenge for spots next season.
 
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TheBeastCoast

Registered User
Mar 23, 2011
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Dartmouth,NS
If our management reacts to last night anything like a large part of our fanbase has that will set us back more then whatever happened last night did. The roster needs to tinkered with. Making rash decisions based on one games is a great way to make awful mistakes though.
 

deletethis

Registered User
Mar 17, 2015
7,910
2,486
Toronto
Forcing an improvement on defense regardless of the availability is a typical mistake organizations make.

I think the team's defensive issues lie equally between the defensemen and the forwards. Improvements in schemes, in forward personnel and growth of the returning forwards will have as much if not more impact on the team's overall defensive performance.
 

ShaneFalco

Registered User
Jul 15, 2012
21,414
15,770
London, On
Forcing an improvement on defense regardless of the availability is a typical mistake organizations make.

I think the team's defensive issues lie equally between the defensemen and the forwards. Improvements in schemes, in forward personnel and growth of the returning forwards will have as much if not more impact on the team's overall defensive performance.

Agreed. It's not all on the D
To begin, imagine a line that doesn't need heavy duty sheltering
 
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deletethis

Registered User
Mar 17, 2015
7,910
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Toronto
I think there's just confusion on the meaning of "hot take". Quimby clearly means "emotionally overreacting too soon after an event". I think others take it to mean "the most relevant and bluntly honest immediate evaluation". Personally I think it means an overreaction because our quickest reaction is usually something we later have to walk back.
 
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thewave

Registered User
Jun 17, 2011
39,884
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If our management reacts to last night anything like a large part of our fanbase has that will set us back more then whatever happened last night did. The roster needs to tinkered with. Making rash decisions based on one games is a great way to make awful mistakes though.

We don't have any logical moves left. The avenues to those types of moves leave with the UFA. We can sign a short term UFA or two. Hope Lilj is ready. Trade Jake, Trade Martin.

Short of spending futures on a D and trading Jake, well, that's the only play we have that's not extreme like trading Nylander or someone else.
 
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Morbo

The Annihilator
Jan 14, 2003
27,100
5,734
Toronto
It's a hot take to make a thread and complain about it the day after a game 7 loss when the personnel has been in place principally since September.

Nah it isn't. a hot take has to be reactionary AND obviously incorrect/contrarian/trollish

our blueline is bottom 10 in the league. I said it at the beginning of the season, go check. It is the most room-temperature of takes, believe me.

There's a curse word in the title of the thread for god sakes. :laugh:

well yeah:laugh:
 

Mickey Marner

Registered User
Jul 9, 2014
19,225
20,758
Dystopia
  • Pink slip Polak
  • Call Borgman back up
  • Trade Gardiner
  • Promote Dermott to top-4
  • Take a look at Carlson or trade/sign a top-4 RHD
  • Demote Hainsey to bottom pair
Rielly-Zaitsev/???
Dermott-Zaitsev/???
Borgman-Hainsey
Carrick

And the new RHD betting f***ing know how to clear the zone with possession. None of this Hainsey/Polak ice it or give it away horse shit.
 

ottomaddox

Registered User
Oct 31, 2017
10,592
4,600
Toronto
We don't have any logical moves left. The avenues to those types of moves leave with the UFA. We can sign a short term UFA or two. Hope Lilj is ready. Trade Jake, Trade Martin.

Short of spending futures on a D and trading Jake, well, that's the only play we have that's not extreme like trading Nylander or someone else.

So spend futures. What would be the harm? If the goal is to never risk anything then we'll be seeing 1st round exits for a long time.
 

Ratboy

I made a funny!
Jul 15, 2009
16,855
3,343
I really like Borgman. He can give us some grit when polak leaves. Please leave polak.

Trade Gardiner for McDavid. IT CAN'T FAIL
 

Stephen

Moderator
Feb 28, 2002
77,850
51,521
Wouldn't mind seeing them pull a Columbus and draft like 6 defensemen in the draft and really try to nail down a Parayko/Carlo type to fill out the prospect pipeline.
 

Al14

Registered User
Jul 13, 2007
24,093
5,452
How many games do we have to see our D bailed out by our goalie, or our scoring talent (forwards)?

How many playoff series do we have to lose?

Why hang on so long to all the wrong parts?

You can't just come in year after year and blame the 5th and 6th D for TOR's woes. We need some fresh eyes and a serious long look at our defense.

Are we missing just 1 guy?
Will Liljegren be the answer?

No. We might still be missing 3 or 4 D.

We have to take some risks here.

Yes that means possibly parting with Jake or Morgan!

The D is not working!
I would not hesitate to trade Gardiner and Rielly if the return was Drew Doughty.

I dislike Gardiner's constant brain farts game after game after game. Rielly is not a bonafide #1D as he too commits brain farts and does not possess a shot from the point that would break one of Lupul's bones!
 

Tak7

Registered User
Nov 1, 2009
12,623
4,094
GTA or the UK
Although, you have to look at if he's a guy you want in your long-term plans at age 28

A team that is as defensively challenged as the Leafs, don't need to look at trading away one of it's better Dmen - even if he had one really tough game.

That sort of knee-jerk reaction is very similar to what the organization did after the 2013 game 7 loss.

You can't make determinations and decisions on a team based on one single game.
 

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