Confirmed with Link: [TOR/ANA] Frederik Andersen for 30th Overall + 2017 2nd Round Pick

[Gallagbi]

Fair point, but doesn't that further validate acquiring a goaltender with Andersen's pedigree?

At his AAV and cost to acquire? It's questionable.

 

[darrylsittler27]

In a word...surprised!

I had heard the rumours but I think the price paid is high. It also means no high pick next year. I can only assume there are more moves coming and Toronto is going for the playoffs. I can only imagine Lou doesn't want Edmontonitis to set in and that Mathews has changed the equation radically.Clearly the Leafs don't think there will be anything special at 30th, just another 43 percent of playing in the NHL.

On a footnote: Bernier is toast and deservedly so.

 

[Guided by Veseys]

fine trade. There is risk involved but that is why the cost was minimal. Needed a number one goalie and now likely have a fine one. He is probably a middle of the pack number one but that is good enough! Only a 1d away from contention in a couple of years

 

[Gallagbi]

Maybe, but how many truly elite goalies have been acquired via trade or free agency in recent memory?

Jones, Bishop, Luongo, Rask, Schneider all come to mind.

 

[I Am The Stig]

Jones, Bishop, Luongo, Rask, Schneider all come to mind.

A little early on Jones, eh?

 

[Clark4Ever]

At his AAV and cost to acquire? It's questionable.

Why? His AAV is middle of the pack for starting goaltenders, which is very reasonable based on his career numbers thus far. The cost could very well prove to be palatable, if not negligible based on the percentage of players drafted in the 30-60 range that go on to have successful NHL careers.

 

[Vexed]

Jones, Bishop, Luongo, Rask, Schneider all come to mind.

And the list goes on and on the further back you go. Finding a goalie in the draft is the biggest fluke job unless they are so so good they go in the top of the draft which is so rare

 

[Clark4Ever]

Jones, Bishop, Luongo, Rask, Schneider all come to mind.

Maybe we have different interpretations of elite. The goalies you listed are very good, but I don't consider any of them to be elite. Andersen has the potential to be just as good as any of them.

 

[Vexed]

Maybe we have different interpretations of elite. The goalies you listed are very good, but I don't consider any of them to be elite. Andersen has the potential to be just as good as any of them.

Maybe true but you don't need an 'elite' goalie to win a cup, I would argue that in a cap world paying for one is a hinder not a help. We also didn't pay the fee or salary of an elite goalie

 

[Daisy Jane]

Bingo.

I feel like it's a move that makes sense in 3 years time. It feels very rushed right now and completely against the "patience" that has been preached.

I don't agree.

You need to have strong, competent goaltending. I don't get this understanding that we needed to wait 2-3 years or get stopgap goaltending to do us by. Having really good goaltending - it means you can put the stability in net - it helps give the team confidence to win.

It also truly allows you to assess and address defense and forwards. it helps hide mistakes better. and he's roughly the same age of our mid-core.

I firmly believe that the patience that Shanahan was talking about wasn't just being mired in crap-town for several years - he all but said so when he hired Babcock - he doesn't want to sacrifice the development of the younger players.

having crap goaltending would def. go against that.

 

[zeke]

I don't agree with that at all. This is a good deal if he just holds close to his current trajectory. Its an excellent steal of a deal if he has upside "considerably higher than he has shown". I don't see this as a rush job sort of deal at all. I think its a reasonable price for a goalie that has done enough to prove himself ready to be a full time starter. Granted goalies are the least sure thing out there from year to year but that's just the nature of the game.

The Schneider deal is a great comparison since the deals happened at very similar times in their careers and they have basically proven the same amount at the time. Schneider cost a 9th and this cost significantly lower than that. The contract is just market value for a middle of the road starting goalie so there isn't much risk there either especially buying years of FA.

Schneider put up legit elite numbers prior to the trade, and in a role only marginally smaller than Andersen's. It's not a good comparison imo.

 

[Vexed]

I don't agree.

You need to have strong, competent goaltending. I don't get this understanding that we needed to wait 2-3 years or get stopgap goaltending to do us by. Having really good goaltending - it means you can put the stability in net - it helps give the team confidence to win.

It also truly allows you to assess and address defense and forwards. it helps hide mistakes better. and he's roughly the same age of our mid-core.

I firmly believe that the patience that Shanahan was talking about wasn't just being mired in crap-town for several years - he all but said so when he hired Babcock - he doesn't want to sacrifice the development of the younger players.

having crap goaltending would def. go against that.

I agree. You have no idea what you have on the ice when the goalie is crap

 

[Mikeyg]

We aren't the oilers. You people are feeling dissonant about this because we likely arent getting a shiny new toy in the draft next year. You know who gets a shiny toy every year? Edmonton. We on the otherhand want to start building into championship form, it was a necessary move.

 

[timlap]

Leafs put a lot of money into analytics, due to this they may give Mirtle an outline that they like Andersen but would never explain why. They aren't going to spend what they spend developing it stuff and give clues in articles by revealing too much. I have faith this is the right move because I truly believe this passed the analytics test and the Lou/pro-scouting test. I could be wrong, but I rather have faith in the guys we've brought in to develop this team than be overly cynical. This isn't JFJ appeasing the board and chasing the playoffs or Burke just ignoring analytics and going off his gut. For this deal to have come about, there was probably in-depth studies done by the analytics guys and hell of alot of scouting by Lou's guys.

I agree that it's not worth getting cynical. That's why I'm basically hopeful.

And even if this deal goes south, that doesn't prove our analysis was worthless. The proof will come when we experience success as a whole. It doesn't hang on any one particular deal. That said, goalie is a significant position- so this deal looms rather large in that sense.

 

[zeke]

Maybe, but how many truly elite goalies have been acquired via trade or free agency in recent memory?

depends on your definition of course but 25 goalies have played 125+ games over the past 3yrs and these here are the top 10 sv%:

1.Price .931 - DRAFT
2.Schneider .924 - ACQUIRED
3.Bishop .922 - ACQ
4.Crawford .922 - DRF
5.Rask .922 - ACQ
6.Lundqvist .921 - DRF
7.Luongo .921 - ACQ
8.Mason .921 - ACQ
9.Varlamov .921 - ACQ
10.Holtby .920 - DRF

 

[Joey Hoser]

Maybe, but how many truly elite goalies have been acquired via trade or free agency in recent memory?

There's only a couple guys who are consistently elite.

 

[jrgtml67]

I had heard the rumours but I think the price paid is high. It also means no high pick next year. I can only assume there are more moves coming and Toronto is going for the playoffs. I can only imagine Lou doesn't want Edmontonitis to set in and that Mathews has changed the equation radically.Clearly the Leafs don't think there will be anything special at 30th, just another 43 percent of playing in the NHL.

On a footnote: Bernier is toast and deservedly so.

First off (nothing to do with your post) but it is sickening. A ton of people that post here were crying for Andersen, and saying how he is a true #1 netminder etc etc. Now that we have him many are suggesting the price was too high, his contract is too much. Can we ever be satisfied?

Breaking down the deal we got him for pretty much to 2nds. Players that far back have 2 potentials. The first being they never play a game in the NHL, second is even if they do and become good or great, it will take a couple years for that to happen. Now Lou and Co. have said they wont rush, and I dont feel this is rushing whatsoever.

Bernier is off the books next year, or more likely when we trade him this year, hes AAV is something like what 4.25mil? so for $750,000 more of a hit we get a hulking 6foot4 225lbs goaltender who has better than avg numbers, has playoff experience (which may I say his numbers were even better). I think its a great deal for both sides.

ANA traded outside the conference, they couldnt get him signed and decided it was time to pick between him and Gibby. Lou has always built from the backend forward. Pulling off a draft deal to 9th OV for Schneider, and having Martin Brodeur for a life time, the guy has an eye for goalies.

The only question mark is 5yrs...could it be too long? Only if Andersen doesnt perform. If he does and only gets better which I think he will 5yrs is perfect. He will be 31 at the end of his deal, and around year 2 or 3 we will be contending (I hope). On top of that if we draft a goalie this draft say Hart, Fitz or Parsons the timeline for them to step up fits with the contract as well. Remember we still have pick #31 and only gave up #30 overall and some whatever pick in 2017.

Picks are picks, its a possibility an educated guess, unless you are drafting (this year) in the top 15ish.

The final reason why this deal makes sense is Matthews. Getting a center of his skill pushed our rebuild further, faster (not management jumping the gun).

So what happened here in summary;

Gave up 2 maybes for a better than avg guy who many here wanted. Contract maybe a bit long but that will be forgotten if he performs like Lou and Co. think and I agree. More than likely we trade Bernier before draft or at for a couple picks, lose the 4.25 or 4 whatever off the books.

I'll take a goalie with experience and good numbers over a #30 pick any day and on top of it we have pick #31 anyway.

EXCITED as all heck for Friday, this is going to be something, I feel there are more trades to come and not just for picks. Lets have some fun BOYS

 

[zeke]

We aren't the oilers. You people are feeling dissonant about this because we likely arent getting a shiny new toy in the draft next year. You know who gets a shiny toy every year? Edmonton. We on the otherhand want to start building into championship form, it was a necessary move.

Last year the Oilers went out and got a 28yr old goalie with much better numbers than Andersen. For much less.

 

[Daisy Jane]

i'm not going to pretend to say I understand the numbers because I do not - but doesn't the fact that Anaheim sucked the royal big one for 4 months have a lot to do with his numbers last year? which would drag down his overall numbers?

hm?

 

[Paradoc]

i'm not going to pretend to say I understand the numbers because I do not - but doesn't the fact that Anaheim sucked the royal big one for 4 months have a lot to do with his numbers last year? which would drag down his overall numbers?

hm?

They did lose a lot of 2-0, and 2-1 games so if anything I think his win and loss record was more affected. Maybe if Anahiem played tighter defence when they were struggling Andersen numbers could have rise as well.

 

[Leaf Army]

See, nobody thinks Anderson is a bad goalie.

The issue is that the Leafs are making him THE goalie longterm, when his track record doesn't suggest he'll be amongst the best in the league - at a point in time where they should have been in no rush to settle for a middle of the pack goalie longterm, and could have waited until there was an opportunity for an elite goalie to come available.

And there is always the argument that under a cap, paying market price for middle of the pack performance is never a good idea.

This move only makes sense if they really believe he has upside considerably higher than he has shown, which I guess is possible. But it's not like this is a safe move either - in his only season with a starter's workload (not even a very heavy one) he was solidly below average.

Exactly.

Settling for middle of the pack performance (and paying a pretty good price for it) is what got this team into trouble in the first place and we just did it again.

 

[hotpaws]

Can't believe some people are complaining about the price we paid.

If JFJ was still GM he would have given up Marner as well as taken back a salary dump. Lol.

 

[Leaf Army]

Can't believe some people are complaining about the price we paid.

If JFJ was still GM he would have given up Marner as well as taken back a salary dump. Lol.

When you consider the price we paid you have to factor in the contract as well on top of the picks. I don't understand how some people are acting like that contract is a non-factor.

 

[Daisy Jane]

They did lose a lot of 2-0, and 2-1 games so if anything I think his win and loss record was more affected. Maybe if Anahiem played tighter defence when they were struggling Andersen numbers could have rise as well.

thanks

 

[Unhealthy Scratch]

Schneider put up legit elite numbers prior to the trade

Which is why he costed 9th overall and not 30th overall + a 2nd.