Confirmed with Link: [TOR/ANA] Frederik Andersen for 30th Overall + 2017 2nd Round Pick

[Gary Nylund]

Can't believe all the fuss. Andersen seemed to me like the best option out there for us, pass on this opportunity and who knows what we may have ended up settling for. Looks to me like we got the guy we wanted/targeted, paid a price for him that is more than affordable and got him signed to a fair contract. So what's the problem.

I like it. I like it a lot!

 

[Derek Synak]

To me the price paid for Andersen is nothing, we have lots of prospects and still lots of picks.

Andersen is a good goalie with room to grow, this regime believes greatly in him and they've done nothing as a regime that makes me doubt their ability to gauge talent.

With the wealth of prospects and picks I fully expect another big trade for a RHD top pairing guy.

Buckle up, they tore it down, aquired multiple assets and are now putting it back together with their vision.

Love it!

 

[WTFMAN99]

Can't believe all the fuss. Andersen seemed to me like the best option out there for us, pass on this opportunity and who knows what we may have ended up settling for. Looks to me like we got the guy we wanted/targeted, paid a price for him that is more than affordable and got him signed to a fair contract. So what's the problem.

I like it. I like it a lot!

Talbot got 2 2nds and was a lot less proven.

Andersen fits our rebuild perfectly as opposed to MAF (too old), Bishop (will be too old and more expensive), and Howard (sucks and overpaid), and Reimer (been there, done that)

We basically paid 2 2nds for Andersen...I am okay with that.

 

[Goonface2k14]

I like the move.

Andersen is a 26 year old proven #1, big, agile goalie, coming from a team that played with very high expectations.

Bernier was a backup in LA who was overrated right from the start. He reaped the rewards of playing sparingly for a team with a fantastic defensive gameplan (similar to how our old friend Ben Scrivens also had great numbers with the Kings). He then came into an awkward situation in Toronto with Reimer wondering wtf was going on. Talk about setting a player up for failure. I felt that way about things the moment the trade was made with the Kings, and not in hindsight.

I also think the pressure on Andersen to perform with Gibson breathing down his neck only makes him stronger as the number one in Toronto. Different type of pressure, but pressure nonetheless.

Andersen certainly will see many more quality shots in Toronto than he did in Anaheim, just like Bernier did coming from LA, but I think with his size and his experience as a #1, Andersen will be more ready for that challenge than Bernier ever was.

GLG

 

[colchar]

The experts also brought Leaf fans Raycroft, Toskala, Gustavsson and Bernier.

Prior regimes proved they weren't experts. The current regime has yet to demonstrate that they aren't. Roloson has yet to demonstrate that he isn't.

Did you think his goalie coach would say anything but good things about his pupil?

He could have simply refused the interview by claiming he was busy (he clearly was as his other line was ringing so much that he and the hosts were laughing about it happening during the interview so it wouldn't have been a stretch to decline based on workload.).

Anointing a guy with a limited body of work in the most demanding market in the league smacks of high risk to me.

And you're basing this on your vast experience evaluating talent at the NHL level are you? Nah, didn't think so.

 

[colchar]

Im not sure how you reward a guy with 25 million dollars before he has one 60 game season under his belt.

Well when your vast expertise lands you an NHL GM job you can make that decision.

 

[CDP]

People are pointing out that Andersen is 'unproven', not a top-10-in-the-league kind of guy, etc. That's all valid, but bona fide elite #1 goalies with multiple seasons of starting experience almost never become available - if you want a starter, you either draft one or take a shot on a talented/upcoming backup or 1B type of guy like Schneider, Jones, Talbot, etc. and hope they develop into that undisputed #1.

Andersen is actually quite a bit more proven experience-wise than any of those guys when they were dealt, and considering the options on the goalie market, I think this is a much preferable alternative to an older guy like Fleury or someone like Bishop that would command even more salary.

Now, whether it's the right time to make a move for a goalie or whether we paid too much, only time will tell. But some of the people on here characterizing Andersen as a 'backup' or another Bernier are going too far. He's a good, young, starting-caliber goalie with playoff experience, and you have to give up value for that kind of player.

 

[Jack Bauer]

Can't believe all the fuss. Andersen seemed to me like the best option out there for us, pass on this opportunity and who knows what we may have ended up settling for. Looks to me like we got the guy we wanted/targeted, paid a price for him that is more than affordable and got him signed to a fair contract. So what's the problem.

I like it. I like it a lot!

The 30th overall team moving a late 1st and a 2nd for an unproven goalie is going to bring out some people wondering if it's the best move for that team.

I'm on record as saying I wouldn't have done it and would have went the cheaper stop gap route.

But time will prove whether the gamble is worth it.

 

[Gabriel426]

Can't believe all the fuss. Andersen seemed to me like the best option out there for us, pass on this opportunity and who knows what we may have ended up settling for. Looks to me like we got the guy we wanted/targeted, paid a price for him that is more than affordable and got him signed to a fair contract. So what's the problem.

I like it. I like it a lot!

Pretty sure if we got Carey Price, some will complain about his cap hit, injury and age. If we got Jones or Murray, some will complain, they will need a huge raise come UFA and by that time, Leafs will be tight in cap due to The Big 3 coming out of their ELCs too.
I love to see difference of opinions and have discussions and all, but sometime, can we just be happy that we got a pretty good goalie in a very controllable contract.

 

[Gabriel426]

The 30th overall team moving a late 1st and a 2nd for an unproven goalie is going to bring out some people wondering if it's the best move for that team.

I'm on record as saying I wouldn't have done it and would have went the cheaper stop gap route.

But time will prove whether the gamble is worth it.

But why get a stop gap solution if you can get a more permanent one.
Would you rather have Ryan Miller?

 

[colchar]

the irritating thing whomever we got it it really seems like it was going to be a massive gripe
"Omg - we got Fleury - he's too old he doesn't fit, gripe gripe gripe."
"Omg - we got Bishop! he's too injury prone, and too expensive cap wise, gripe gripe gripe."
"Omg - we got Howard, can you believe it, he's garbage, gripe gripe gripe."
"Omg! - we got Elliott, he's not good enough, he chokes, gripe, gripe gripe."


now matter whom we got it would be an issue.

Sometimes the worst thing about being a Leafs fan is other Leafs fans because there is a segment of the fanbase that will complain about anything.

The Leafs could trade a 5th rounder for Price, have Lou work some kind of Lou magic through which his contract is renegotiated and he plays for the league minimum, he could go on to win the Vezina, and there would be people here crying about spending a 5th rounder on a guy who was injured most of this past season. And God forbid he get food poisoning or something because they would go off their nuts about how that was proof that he was injury prone, couldn't remain healthy, and wasn't worth the price because the guy chosen with that 5th round pick might, maybe, potentially, someday go on to be a perennial all star.

And there are those who, if the Leafs were to win the Cup in a seven game series, wouldn't be out partying with the rest of us but would, instead, be calling in to sports talk radio to gripe that they didn't win it in five games. And they would, of course, have all the answers on how that could have and should have been accomplished, all based on their House League and Beer League hockey careers.

 

[Jack Bauer]

People are pointing out that Andersen is 'unproven', not a top-10-in-the-league kind of guy, etc. That's all valid, but bona fide elite #1 goalies with multiple seasons of starting experience almost never become available - if you want a starter, you either draft one or take a shot on a talented/upcoming backup or 1B type of guy like Schneider, Jones, Talbot, etc. and hope they develop into that undisputed #1.

Andersen is actually quite a bit more proven experience-wise than any of those guys when they were dealt, and considering the options on the goalie market, I think this is a much preferable alternative to an older guy like Fleury or someone like Bishop that would command even more salary.

Now, whether it's the right time to make a move for a goalie or whether we paid too much, only time will tell. But some of the people on here characterizing Andersen as a 'backup' or another Bernier are going too far. He's a good, young, starting-caliber goalie with playoff experience, and you have to give up value for that kind of player.

You notice a lot of extremes and flip flopping when a move like this is made.

Andersen is either a proven #1 or a backup based on what side of the trade you're on.

The 30th pick is either a 1st or 2nd apparently. When you trade it away it appears to definitely be a 2nd if you like the trade butttt it's a 1st if you don't like it

My biggest issue is the 5 year extension more then the price. We have the picks to make moves like this. But it would be a disaster for this guy to blow up in the leagues biggest market and set us back a year while we have to go find another goalie.

 

[Daisy Jane]

The 30th overall team moving a late 1st and a 2nd for an unproven goalie is going to bring out some people wondering if it's the best move for that team.

I'm on record as saying I wouldn't have done it and would have went the cheaper stop gap route.

But time will prove whether the gamble is worth it.

but what is the cheaper stop gap route? (seriously, i'm not being picky here).
one very easily could argue andersen was the cheaper route.

and quite frankly i'm tired of stop gaps.

 

[Leaf Army]

My question is: what do those who are against this trade expect?

If we hypothetically acquire Bishop that is 5.9m a year for an aging goaltender, who right now is great, but will not fit the age of the group - especially when we compete.
On top of this, we would give up 30th pick, 2nd, Kapanen level prospect and potentially more. EVERYONE WOULD BE FREAKING OUT. The same people complaining about the Andersen deal would be saying "should have gotten Andersen for a cheaper price".
If we hypothetically got a goaltender like Calvin Pickard who has no playoff experience, 36 games played with a small sample to draw from - EVERYONE WOULD BE FREAKING OUT. The same people complaining about the Andersen deal would be saying "Should have gotten Andersen, a more mature & slightly experienced goaltender".
If we stick with Bernier (which I was originally hoping for) then we miss the boat on Andersen - who is a perfect fit for our organization and our immediate and future needs.
Yes, we could draft a goaltender and wait 7 years while we just hop from one **** goalie to the next.

Some of you fans are never happy, but this is the best avenue to take at this time. He could turn out to be a complete dud but that is the risk you take with ANY young goaltender.

Point being: We do not have the proper assets to acquire a Bishop, nor does someone over 28/29 fit the Toronto Maple Leafs culture. It has been obvious since day 1 that Management is not high on Bernier. And I am sure management has done their homework on Freddy.

Provide a better alternative and try rationalizing it before claiming that this hockey move is the wrong move.

I expected we would either stick with Bernier or acquire someone who is a clear upgrade on Bernier.

Meanwhile I did not expect to commit $25 million to a middle of the pack goalie who is not a clear upgrade on Bernier.

You cannot judge Bernier's performance while playing on that gawdawful excuse for a team we iced last year.

Picture if Bernier had played the last two seasons for Anaheim and Andersen for the Leafs. We'd probably be trading for Bernier right now and giving him $25 mil while kicking Andersen to the curb.

 

[Jack Bauer]

Sometimes the worst thing about being a Leafs fan is other Leafs fans because there is a segment of the fanbase that will complain about anything.

The Leafs could trade a 5th rounder for Price, have Lou work some kind of Lou magic through which his contract is renegotiated and he plays for the league minimum, he could go on to win the Vezina, and there would be people here crying about spending a 5th rounder on a guy who was injured most of this past season. And God forbid he get food poisoning or something because they would go off their nuts about how that was proof that he was injury prone and couldn't remain healthy.

And there are those who, if the Leafs were to win the Cup in a seven game series, wouldn't be out partying with the rest of us but would, instead, be calling in to sports talk radio to gripe that they didn't win it in five games. And they will, of course, have all the answers on how that could have and should have been accomplished, all based on their House League and Beer League hockey careers.

And Leaf fans who use extremes like "We could get Price for a 5th and people would still complain" are no better.

There's many good, smart, educated reasons to debate the nature of this trade. Not sure why some get all worked up about that. I see very little irrational hate(yes, there is some...) and for the most part see people discussing the points they see as valid.

Both sides have good reasons for their opinions either for or against a move like this.

It's not like people want someone fired for making the move.

A lot of the discussion is coming from hoping Andersen's numbers translate to him easily being a top 10 #1 goalie vs those worried that his contract extension before he plays a game in the leagues biggest fishbowl gives him the same hope of success as the last goalies we did that too in Bernier, Toskala, and Raycroft.

Seeing as goaltending is perhaps the most volatile position I think guarded optimism is way more warranted then blind hope.

 

[Unhealthy Scratch]

There's many good, smart, educated reasons to debate the nature of this trade.

It's all emphasis, really.

Group A: "It's a risk, but if he pans out as a solid starter then we'll be in good shape and I'll be happy with that."

Group B: "It's a risk, and if he doesn't pan out as a solid starter then we'll be in bad shape and I won't be happy with that."

This article best outlines why I'm erring on the side of optimism, along with Mirtle's article from today that touched on the in-depth analysis preceding the trade. For me, it's hard to imagine why an otherwise prudent and meticulous group would go through the trouble of committing two draft picks and $25M over five years to a goalie unless they really saw something in him.

 

[Jack Bauer]

but what is the cheaper stop gap route? (seriously, i'm not being picky here).
one very easily could argue andersen was the cheaper route.

and quite frankly i'm tired of stop gaps.

Signing a UFA allows us to keep our picks. And thanks to the amount of goalies probably get a decent 1 or 2 year deal with a low cap hit on someone like Barra of Gustavsson.

Then you're keeping Bernier and the UFA and going into next June with an available protection slot for a goalie you can then look to acquire from a position of strength from a team going to lose someone to Las Vegas.

Hard to argue there was no cheaper option then a 1st and 2nd and 5X5 extension when we're on the verge of free agency and a year from an expansion draft forcing teams to make choices they'd rather not have to make.

Hopefully by July 4th more comes together and this makes a lot more sense. Right now, I would have preferred the patient approach based on what we know.

 

[Eb]

the irritating thing whomever we got it it really seems like it was going to be a massive gripe
"Omg - we got Fleury - he's too old he doesn't fit, gripe gripe gripe."
"Omg - we got Bishop! he's too injury prone, and too expensive cap wise, gripe gripe gripe."
"Omg - we got Howard, can you believe it, he's garbage, gripe gripe gripe."
"Omg! - we got Elliott, he's not good enough, he chokes, gripe, gripe gripe."


now matter whom we got it would be an issue.
again I'm not going to be all smart-butt here and pretend I understand his numbers - I don't. but to me it doesn't matter per se. I think what matters is that he's a very athletic goalie who is also good on his angles and positioning. And he's tall - something that Babcock griped about the entire season. ON height average Freddie is now the third tallest in our division. (He also has good numbers vs. our division, if people care about this thing).

it takes the same amount of energy to be positive, as it does to be negative. why for the life of me people want to go run into the negative side of the pool is beyond me.

so many times this team in the past traded for players (period) without a contract in hand, and they had arb rights. Lou eliminated that. He bought up 4 ufa years so if it plays off well (which - it very well could in the system that Babcock employs), he's now being paid less than a lot of starters in the league. if it bites the biscuit - you can still manage to make it work.

It's only a problem when it becomes a problem - and it very, easily could not be a problem. and a lot of other options out there would have/could have cost a lot more.

You forgot the option of not making a trade this offseason. Much less gripe.

 

[Jack Bauer]

To me the price paid for Andersen is nothing

So then we really got nothing for Kessel, Phaneuf, Winnick, Polak, and Reimer if a 1st and 2nd combined is nothing.

 

[Jack Bauer]

You forgot the option of not making a trade this offseason. Much less gripe.

Yeah being patient and doing our buying after everyone else(if we need to buy at all) doesn't seem to be a possibility anyone brings up.

Adding a cheaper backup as opposed to moving picks and giving out a long term deal would have been the majorities preferred choice 10 days ago in my opinion.

 

[eddieO]

I expected we would either stick with Bernier or acquire someone who is a clear upgrade on Bernier.

Meanwhile I did not expect to commit $25 million to a middle of the pack goalie who is not a clear upgrade on Bernier.

You cannot judge Bernier's performance while playing on that gawdawful excuse for a team we iced last year.

Picture if Bernier had played the last two seasons for Anaheim and Andersen for the Leafs. We'd probably be trading for Bernier right now and giving him $25 mil while kicking Andersen to the curb.

A) He is a clear upgrade
B) Yes you can. You can judge it because his counterpart excelled in front of that same god awful team, Bernier folded like a cheap tent.
C) HA! Did you hear what Lou said when asked about Bernier? "... we now have a 6'4 goaltender".. it's clear this regime like most winning regimes put no stock into undersized goaltenders.

Andersen is not a backup here in SoCal. He was the better goalie and the team played better in front of him. He lost a lot of 2-1, 1-0 games and that's just how it goes for a team that can't score.

But seriously Bernier is hot garbage. There's a reason why this was the first move they made.

 

[Eb]

Yeah being patient and doing our buying after everyone else(if we need to buy at all) doesn't seem to be a possibility anyone brings up.

Adding a cheaper backup as opposed to moving picks and giving out a long term deal would have been the majorities preferred choice 10 days ago in my opinion.

Agreed.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Signing a UFA allows us to keep our picks. And thanks to the amount of goalies probably get a decent 1 or 2 year deal with a low cap hit on someone like Barra of Gustavsson.

Then you're keeping Bernier and the UFA and going into next June with an available protection slot for a goalie you can then look to acquire from a position of strength from a team going to lose someone to Las Vegas.

Hard to argue there was no cheaper option then a 1st and 2nd and 5X5 extension when we're on the verge of free agency and a year from an expansion draft forcing teams to make choices they'd rather not have to make.

Hopefully by July 4th more comes together and this makes a lot more sense. Right now, I would have preferred the patient approach based on what we know.

That seems risky as teams likely to lose a goalie will likely look to resolve that situation sooner as opposed to later like ANA just did. So if we wait until next June, we might end up missing out on our first choice, and our second choice and ...

I think Andersen was our first choice. If that's true, then it makes sense to not risk losing out.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Agreed.

Disagreed.

 

[81Leafs50]

See, nobody thinks Anderson is a bad goalie.

The issue is that the Leafs are making him THE goalie longterm, when his track record doesn't suggest he'll be amongst the best in the league - at a point in time where they should have been in no rush to settle for a middle of the pack goalie longterm, and could have waited until there was an opportunity for an elite goalie to come available.

And there is always the argument that under a cap, paying market price for middle of the pack performance is never a good idea.

This move only makes sense if they really believe he has upside considerably higher than he has shown, which I guess is possible. But it's not like this is a safe move either - in his only season with a starter's workload (not even a very heavy one) he was solidly below average.

If the Leafs sit and wait for an ELITE goalie to become available, they will be sitting and waiting forever.