Blue Jays Discussion: Thus Endth the 2016 Season..

[hockeywiz542]

MLB Insider Jon Morosi joins Dean Blundell & Co. to read the tea leaves regarding Jose Bautista, Edwin Encarnacion, and the future of the Blue Jays’ roster, and if Joey Votto could indeed be moved to Toronto.

Morosi suggested that Kevin Pillar might be on the trading block, and that Joey Votto is a real possibility at first base should Edwin Encarnacion not return to Toronto. And he was uncategorical about his belief that the Jays head office does not want Bautista back.

Morosi floated Charlie Blackmon, Adam Eaton and Ender Inciarte as possible solutions for the Blue Jays in the outfield. He also mentioned Josh Reddick as an option in right field. When asked whether the Blue Jays might try to trade for Toronto native Votto, Morosi said he thought this was a "legitimate" possibility. "I don't think the Jays would have to give up their absolute best young players to get him," he said, adding that Votto would have to agree to the move as he has no-trade protection in his contract with the Cincinnati Reds.

http://pmd.fan590.com/audio_on_dema...ve-on-from-Bautista-db-20161021-Interview.mp3

 

[Doug Gilmour]

Qualifying EE and JoeyBats is a given.

Re-sign:

Saunders
Cecil
Benoit
Grilli
Navarro
Barney
Feldman (if the price is right)

Everyone else can walk.

Boone Logan and Austin Jackson would be the first 2 targets I would be looking at as free agents.

 

[oilers89]

Trade for Adam eaton. Sign fowler or reddick. Trade for votto. Sign morales or comparable dh if Edwin is gone.

Fowler
Eaton
Donaldson
Votto
Morales
Tulo
Travis
Martin
Pillar

 

[Woodman19]

Trade for Adam eaton. Sign fowler or reddick. Trade for votto. Sign morales or comparable dh if Edwin is gone.

Fowler
Eaton
Donaldson
Votto
Morales
Tulo
Travis
Martin
Pillar

How exactly can we afford to do this both in terms of money and in prospect capital to go get Eaton and Votto?

 

[oilers89]

Well money wise. It should be there. Lots is coming off the books and I know Martin has a raise next year too but Jay's should have more money available this off season.
Trade wise:
For votto I'd go stroman +. I'd add pillar if we had too and then a prospect if needed.
For eaton. I'd do Alford + Shane Greene maybe and/or another peice yet.

 

[Leaftors]

Well money wise. It should be there. Lots is coming off the books and I know Martin has a raise next year too but Jay's should have more money available this off season.
Trade wise:
For votto I'd go stroman +. I'd add pillar if we had too and then a prospect if needed.
For eaton. I'd do Alford + Shane Greene maybe and/or another peice yet.

I wouldnt touch either of those with a 10 foot pole

 

[calcal798]

MLB Insider Jon Morosi joins Dean Blundell & Co. to read the tea leaves regarding Jose Bautista, Edwin Encarnacion, and the future of the Blue Jays’ roster, and if Joey Votto could indeed be moved to Toronto.

Morosi suggested that Kevin Pillar might be on the trading block, and that Joey Votto is a real possibility at first base should Edwin Encarnacion not return to Toronto. And he was uncategorical about his belief that the Jays head office does not want Bautista back.

Morosi floated Charlie Blackmon, Adam Eaton and Ender Inciarte as possible solutions for the Blue Jays in the outfield. He also mentioned Josh Reddick as an option in right field. When asked whether the Blue Jays might try to trade for Toronto native Votto, Morosi said he thought this was a "legitimate" possibility. "I don't think the Jays would have to give up their absolute best young players to get him," he said, adding that Votto would have to agree to the move as he has no-trade protection in his contract with the Cincinnati Reds.

http://pmd.fan590.com/audio_on_dema...ve-on-from-Bautista-db-20161021-Interview.mp3

If the Reds eat $50 million in salary (his 39th and 40th year) I'd do it, even then I wouldn't give up to much. Trading Josh Donaldson is a terrible idea, I would imagine the list of teams that won a trade in which they were giving up an MVP caliber player is very few.

 

[Discoverer]

Well money wise. It should be there. Lots is coming off the books and I know Martin has a raise next year too but Jay's should have more money available this off season.
Trade wise:
For votto I'd go stroman +. I'd add pillar if we had too and then a prospect if needed.
For eaton. I'd do Alford + Shane Greene maybe and/or another peice yet.

That's way, WAY too much for Votto.

That's not remotely close to enough for Eaton.

If you want to make big acquisitions, you need to find a way to do it without trading away cheap, young, controllable core pieces.

 

[metafour]

When Steve Simmons is a voice of reason....

http://www.tsn.ca/video/breakfast-club-will-jays-consider-trading-donaldson~977353

Steve Simmons said a lot of dumb things there, so I'm not sure how he's a voice of "reason". To insinuate that Josh Donaldson is the reason why Oakland/Toronto made the playoffs is absurd. Oakland became irrelevant after they traded Donaldson because they had already moved all of their elite prospects in an effort to "win now", and when that failed, all of those players that they had acquired (on rental contracts) signed elsewhere as Oakland couldn't afford to keep them. Even if they had held on to Donaldson, they would have still fallen off. It doesn't take a genius to understand that a team which won 68 and 69 games the past two seasons isn't contending even with Donaldson's ~7 wins.

He then goes on to state that "pitching and defense" wins in the playoffs, which somehow concludes that we're in a great position to contend. This is nothing more than a simpleton analysis, as no team has ever won without offense. Cleveland beat us because they OUT-HOMERED us. Even "great pitching" makes mistakes; the difference in the series that you just witnessed was Cleveland belting our mistake pitches, whereas our "star studded offense" haplessly failed to do anything even with pitches sitting in the strike zone. I have a hard time understanding any argument that states that we're still in a "great position to contend" when our offense is clearly in decline...an offense that has been exposed two years in a row in the playoffs. The core of this roster seems to have hit their ceiling, and its an old and ageing core at that. The question now is whether you want to keep committing more in what might simply be treading water. This roster can contend for another playoff spot next year; but save for some real miracle moves, I don't see this team as an actual "contender" even if they do make it into the postseason.

 

[Discoverer]

I wouldnt touch either of those with a 10 foot pole

Eaton has been worth 12.8 fWAR the last three years, is just entering his age-28 season, and is signed to an amazingly team-friendly contract.

I'm as high on Alford as anybody, but you would have to add a lot more to that trade to get the White Sox to even begin to consider it.

 

[Leaftors]

Eaton has been worth 12.8 fWAR the last three years, is just entering his age-28 season, and is signed to an amazingly team-friendly contract.

I'm as high on Alford as anybody, but you would have to add a lot more to that trade to get the White Sox to even begin to consider it.

Yes, i agree. I should have been more clear why i wouldnt touch it, because the sox would probably laugh at us.

 

[ShaneFalco]

MLB Insider Jon Morosi joins Dean Blundell & Co. to read the tea leaves regarding Jose Bautista, Edwin Encarnacion, and the future of the Blue Jays’ roster, and if Joey Votto could indeed be moved to Toronto.

Morosi suggested that Kevin Pillar might be on the trading block, and that Joey Votto is a real possibility at first base should Edwin Encarnacion not return to Toronto. And he was uncategorical about his belief that the Jays head office does not want Bautista back.

Morosi floated Charlie Blackmon, Adam Eaton and Ender Inciarte as possible solutions for the Blue Jays in the outfield. He also mentioned Josh Reddick as an option in right field. When asked whether the Blue Jays might try to trade for Toronto native Votto, Morosi said he thought this was a "legitimate" possibility. "I don't think the Jays would have to give up their absolute best young players to get him," he said, adding that Votto would have to agree to the move as he has no-trade protection in his contract with the Cincinnati Reds.

http://pmd.fan590.com/audio_on_dema...ve-on-from-Bautista-db-20161021-Interview.mp3

Interesting about Pillar. Great D, average to below average bat, but could fetch a fair amount in a trade. Perhaps a sell high kinda thing?

 

[Canada4Gold]

Are there any prospects that could make the jump next year, full-time? Pompey? Alford? Tellez?

I'm bullish on Tellez coming in and earning a spot in camp next year, he's just mashed at every level he's been to, and has a great eye to boot. Given the lack of a starting 1st baseman or DH right now I think the possibility of him coming into camp and stealing a spot is high unless the fill both of those position with really solid (expensive) players. The jump from AA to the majors is a jump that's been made before and while some time in AAA might be coming I think he could be just fine without it.

Pompey I really think he should be here next year, but given the fact we already hanging onto Carrera and Upton as potential 4th outfielders he might not be. We have to add at least 1 solid outfielder in the offseason, and and DH who could potentially be an outfielder who isn't the best fielder. But pending what gets done Pompey could end up as a starting outfielder or 4th outfielder depending on how his spring goes. Harold Ramirez might be in the outfield fold as well but probably starts in AAA.

Those are the 2 biggest holes on the team right now though, along with the open pen spots so those guys have the best oppurtunity. Urena, SRF, Greene and McGuire might not be that far off, but given the rosters spots we have in those positions it doesn't make sense to see them before September.

Alford needs to be protected in the rule 5 draft assuming the Jays don't apply for and get an exemption due to his missed time playing football. So he'll likely be on the 40 man roster but he needs at least another year.

 

[hockeywiz542]

 

[King Mapes]

Indirectly Devon Travis

So expect the same amount of starts as Halladay

 

[King Mapes]

Well money wise. It should be there. Lots is coming off the books and I know Martin has a raise next year too but Jay's should have more money available this off season.
Trade wise:
For votto I'd go stroman +. I'd add pillar if we had too and then a prospect if needed.
For eaton. I'd do Alford + Shane Greene maybe and/or another peice yet.

You'd trade what for Votto? If that's the cost I stay away.

 

[Epictetus]

Don't really understand why the Braves would want to trade Inciarte.

 

[Canada4Gold]

My wishlist

Pen: Cecil and a top tier arm, preferably Chapman
1st/DH: resign EE, him and Tellez rotate both spots, alternate DH option Matt Holliday
OF: Reddick for a platoon, try Pompey in the other starting spot for now
Bench Catcher: AJJ as a cheap option, or some cheap FA option

Anyone know exactly what our base salary right now is? Not sure how much of Upton's salary is covered. Going off of http://www.bluejaysmessageboard.com/threads/6920-Offseason-Roster-Thread-2016-17 OP figure of 116.95 million

EE: 20 million/4 years
Cecil: 7 million/2 years
Chapman: 15 million/4 years
Reddick: IDK anyone have a contract estimate?

You're looking at almost 160 million before Reddick is factored in. Anyone have any thoughts of where the payroll will be next year. We'd all like it increased, I can't imagine they operate at 140, but how big of an increase is the question, so this lineup probably isn't feasible but whatever

Travis
Donaldson
EE
Tulo
Martin
Reddick/Upton
Tellez
Pillar
Pompey

Bench: AJJ, Barney, Smoak/Carrera, Reddick/Upton

Rotation: Sanchez, Stroman, Estrada, Happ, Liriano
Bullpen: Osuna, Chapman, Cecil, Grilli, Biagini, Barnes, Open Competition Spot

 

[Man Bear Pig]

Interesting about Pillar. Great D, average to below average bat, but could fetch a fair amount in a trade. Perhaps a sell high kinda thing?

He's not a free agent until 2021 and continues to make peanuts. I don't move Pillar for at least 2 more years. If you've got a bunch of guys making $20 million you need the cheaper options too.

 

[Leaftors]

He's not a free agent until 2021 and continues to make peanuts. I don't move Pillar for at least 2 more years. If you've got a bunch of guys making $20 million you need the cheaper options too.

Ya, id have to get blow away to trade him, but would rather just keep him

 

[Eyedea]

Don't really understand why the Braves would want to trade Inciarte.

Mallex takes CF, Inciarte dealt for a pitcher? Not that I would trade Stroman or Sanchez for him.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

My wishlist

Pen: Cecil and a top tier arm, preferably Chapman
1st/DH: resign EE, him and Tellez rotate both spots, alternate DH option Matt Holliday
OF: Reddick for a platoon, try Pompey in the other starting spot for now
Bench Catcher: AJJ as a cheap option, or some cheap FA option

Anyone know exactly what our base salary right now is? Not sure how much of Upton's salary is covered. Going off of http://www.bluejaysmessageboard.com/threads/6920-Offseason-Roster-Thread-2016-17 OP figure of 116.95 million

EE: 20 million/4 years
Cecil: 7 million/2 years
Chapman: 15 million/4 years
Reddick: IDK anyone have a contract estimate?

You're looking at almost 160 million before Reddick is factored in. Anyone have any thoughts of where the payroll will be next year. We'd all like it increased, I can't imagine they operate at 140, but how big of an increase is the question, so this lineup probably isn't feasible but whatever

Travis
Donaldson
EE
Tulo
Martin
Reddick/Upton
Tellez
Pillar
Pompey

Bench: AJJ, Barney, Smoak/Carrera, Reddick/Upton

Rotation: Sanchez, Stroman, Estrada, Happ, Liriano
Bullpen: Osuna, Chapman, Cecil, Grilli, Biagini, Barnes, Open Competition Spot

Realistically our budget will probably end up in the 160-170 range. Shapiro said that we wouldn't be a top 5 team budget wise but be in the "next 5" so that would put us in that next 5.

 

[oilers89]

You'd trade what for Votto? If that's the cost I stay away.

Didn't necessarily say I would trade that for votto. Was just trying to be realistic on what it could cost.

 

[dredeye]

Didn't necessarily say I would trade that for votto. Was just trying to be realistic on what it could cost.

Look at Votto's contract. You won't give up much value to get him. Likely mid tier prospects and the Reds would still need to eat a good chunk of salary

 

[Mitchy]

Stroman + Pillar + for Votto?!

That is insanity and would be much worse than even the Dickey trade.