Blue Jays Discussion: Thus Endth the 2016 Season..

[Habsawce]

You're thinking of Beltre, not Beltran. Beltran is an outfielder.

You're right, my bad.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I dig the reddick/upton platoon idea
Like seattle does with lind/dae ho lee

But then who loses out: Pompey or Carrera?

 

[Leaftors]

But then who loses out: Pompey or Carrera?

platoon pompey/carrera in left?

 

[SeaOfBlue]

platoon pompey/carrera in left?

I doubt they have 5 outfielders. I wouldn't be surprised if there is like a 3-way platoon. Carrera, Upton and Pompey, or someone replaces one of them from FA.

 

[JS19]

This is my issue with the idea of getting a big pen arm. Yeah it looks great when it works, but relievers go full pumpkin all the time. Even elite, big-money relievers on the FA market. The volatility of relievers is such that you're far more likely to "waste" money on bad FA bullpen signings than you are starters or position players (probably in that order). So if you have a limited amount of money to spend you're better off making sure that you're getting value out of it.

It's an argument I've made before, but I remember a few years ago the Jays were projected to end up with an awful pen. Then Cecil stabilized, Delabar emerged, everything lined up and it all looked good. Then going into the next year the pen was the last thing that anyone needed to be concerned about. And it ended up sucking. Storen was a "proven closer" the likes of which would be advocated to be purchased on the open market now and he was terrible. meanwhile Benoit and Grilli were broken castoffs and they found their footing and succeeded.

If you fix the other holes on the roster you can address the pen and tinker until you find the right mix afterward (or pounce on a great option that comes along). If you address the pen issues with big money now, you run a higher risk that they flop and now you don't have the money to fix the other issues and you still have to rejigger the pen to make it work.

Very good example is former Blue Jay Mark Lowe. Had a decent season when the Jays acquired him, and then in FA he gets a 11mil/2yr contract from the Tigers. What happens? He ***** the bed and has had a year to forget. In Storen's case, I guess it was more of a belief that he could overcome his struggles. And I agree, I'd rather spend the money on the meat and potatoes of the roster (hitting and defense) than on the bullpen.

 

[metafour]

Does Shapiro deserve credit for building the Indians system? Find it funny that their fanbase don't acknowledge his footprint on the team.

I mean, he basically birthed that entire front office...so yes, I'd venture that he deserves credit. I'm not sure that there is a better front office builder in the league than Shapiro. He's got about ~4-5 guys (depending on if you want to count Atkins as he hired him himself) sitting at GM (or higher) positions across the league.

 

[Man Bear Pig]

Just saw hah.

Another buy low candidate could be Alex Gordon. Always been a huge fan. Superb defender and has adequate offense in him.

Gordon would certainly be worth the gamble. Problem is, I get the feeling someone will throw too much term at him. He's a guy who's in his prime still and isn't far removed from being a 6+ WAR player. Would look really nice as a leadoff man though.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Some analyst on TSN is suggesting that the Jays consider trading Donaldson.

Yes, trading an MVP caliber player in his prime is exactly what the Jays need. Unless you want to completely sandbag this team and begin rebuilding (which would be foolish), that's not something you even consider.

 

[Eyedea]

Guys, we're in 2017 free agency not 2016. Alex Gordon has 60m left on a 3 year contract.

 

[Leaftors]

Gordon would certainly be worth the gamble. Problem is, I get the feeling someone will throw too much term at him. He's a guy who's in his prime still and isn't far removed from being a 6+ WAR player. Would look really nice as a leadoff man though.

idk what the point would be of potentially paying gordon more, then what we could get saunders for and saunders had an actual better year. And if we're saying we should get gordon because he WAS a 6 war player, why are we saying bautista can walk?

 

[Eyedea]

Some analyst on TSN is suggesting that the Jays consider trading Donaldson.

Yes, trading an MVP caliber player in his prime is exactly what the Jays need. Unless you want to completely sandbag this team and begin rebuilding (which would be foolish), that's not something you even consider.

Not necessarily, he's got two more years of control and he'll be cashing in big time after that.

Like if the Dodgers called in the offseason and offered Urias, Pederson, and Bellinger (they won't), that would definitely help extend the window. Then you just go and throw money at Justin Turner.

 

[Mitchy]

Guys, we're in 2017 free agency not 2016. Alex Gordon has 60m left on a 3 year contract.

Yeah, that was confusing.

 

[Dr.Funk]

Dodgers imploding in the 8th.

 

[Man Bear Pig]

idk what the point would be of potentially paying gordon more, then what we could get saunders for and saunders had an actual better year. And if we're saying we should get gordon because he WAS a 6 war player, why are we saying bautista can walk?

Huh? Saunders doesn't have much of a track record. It's not even close between he and Gordon over their careers. And do you honestly believe Jose Bautista has as good of a chance as Gordon to return to that caliber of a player? I mean, are you just completely ignoring age here?

 

[King Mapes]

Some analyst on TSN is suggesting that the Jays consider trading Donaldson.

Yes, trading an MVP caliber player in his prime is exactly what the Jays need. Unless you want to completely sandbag this team and begin rebuilding (which would be foolish), that's not something you even consider.

It's like people forget what we did for 20 years. Remember when trading Halladay in his prime was a good idea? What did we end up with again?

 

[King Mapes]

How many games did they cost them in the regular season when they had the worst record in 1 run games, though?

Who cares? They showed up when it mattered, as did the starters. Our batters went silent against Cleveland so either way we lose. We simply didn't get timely hits. Our BP was great in the playoffs. Cecil, Osuna and Grilli.

 

[Mitchy]

Cubs are a game away from the World Series...

 

[tp71]

It's like people forget what we did for 20 years. Remember when trading Halladay in his prime was a good idea? What did we end up with again?

Their other piece of advice was sign Chase Utley. Take it as you will.

 

[The Nemesis]

It's like people forget what we did for 20 years. Remember when trading Halladay in his prime was a good idea? What did we end up with again?

Indirectly Devon Travis

 

[TNCHL]

Out field options I'd be okay with.
Sign one of - fowler, Redick, maybin ( in order of preference) and
Trade for mccutchen. I think he can be had this off season
DH/ First base.
Trade for votto
Sign Edwin. If we can't. Sign morales or trumbo

Fowler
Mccutchen
Josh
Votto
Edwin/Morales
Tulo
Martin
Travis
Pillar or carerra/uptown platoon if pillar needs to be in a deal.

I'm dreaming

What the s, you really are dreaming

 

[frost king]

Very good example is former Blue Jay Mark Lowe. Had a decent season when the Jays acquired him, and then in FA he gets a 11mil/2yr contract from the Tigers. What happens? He ***** the bed and has had a year to forget. In Storen's case, I guess it was more of a belief that he could overcome his struggles. And I agree, I'd rather spend the money on the meat and potatoes of the roster (hitting and defense) than on the bullpen.

Mark Lowe is a very poor example, as he had one good single year, and that was 2015. The rest of his career was mediocre. We are talking about guys like Chapman/Miller/Jansen/Melancon. Every year, you will get random guys having outstanding seasons in a bullpen, only to blow up the next season. Case in point here, Redmond/Delabar/Biagini/Loup, they have all had random great seasons, only to disappear in the near future. No different than hitters like Colabello/Carrera/Goins. They have a random good season, and then disappear.

 

[Le Cobra]

maybe we can get some good hitters from some of the basement teams and teams that are rebuilding such as the Yankees...isnt Reddick on the Dodgers? i dont see them giving him up anytime soon

 

[Leaftors]

Huh? Saunders doesn't have much of a track record. It's not even close between he and Gordon over their careers. And do you honestly believe Jose Bautista has as good of a chance as Gordon to return to that caliber of a player? I mean, are you just completely ignoring age here?

i think your ignoring what i was saying, and gordon is pretty old himself. Like said above also, hes not an FA

 

[Leaf_Crazy]

That line-up (minus how much I hate Martin) probably would have gotten us in to the world series.

You hate Martin why?

 

[Le Cobra]

After reading some articles about free agents, I am hoping we get at least one of these players:

Yoenis Cespedes, Ian Desmond, Justin Turner, Mark Trumbo, Josh Reddick, Neil Walker, Dexter Fowler, Mike Napoli, Brandon Moss and Carlos Beltran.