Blue Jays Discussion: Thus Endth the 2016 Season..

[HellasLEAF]

I really really hope we can hang onto EE, but even if we don't, honestly seeing how the Indians are winning, we still have a great core to add to and contend next year.

 

[Brown Dog]

What about Pedro Alvarez as a (DH) replacement for some of Bautista's offense and to fill in for Edwin at first occasionally? Left-handed power bat.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Gibbons said it, but they need some more team speed
A lefty bat
I don't think you have Upton as an every day OFer, but as a 4th, great!
Bring back Benoit, Grilli, Cecil and then grab an lefty for the pen

 

[Loosie]

They lost a load of games in the regular season because of the pen. That's teh difference between having home field and being a WC team.



Pay it imo. Bullpen is so important int he playoffs and the Jays learned that in back to back years.

Our bullpen allowed 2 runs all post season, and that was against Texas when we were up 5-1.

 

[deletethis]

How often does an MLB team have on paper 5 solid starters under contract? EE and Bautista are probably gone but the goal of the 2017 team should be filling holes to make an instant contender for at least one more season.

Then we'll talk next winter. Otherwise, if starting a rebuild right now, the first to go should be the starters with a year left on their contracts.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Blundell just said Pillar would swing at a balk

 

[TheTotalPackage]

Some analyst on TSN is suggesting that the Jays consider trading Donaldson.

Yes, trading an MVP caliber player in his prime is exactly what the Jays need. Unless you want to completely sandbag this team and begin rebuilding (which would be foolish), that's not something you even consider.

That was Dirk Hayhurst. He strikes me as a guy who loves the sound of his own voice and spews b.s. as a result.

I heard it live and all I could do was shake my head. A move like that would just set the franchise back years and destroy whatever goodwill's been built up the last season and a half.

 

[GoonieFace]

Blundell just said Pillar would swing at a balk

Blundell is a clown, and that was on twitter a few days ago, hope he wasnt passing it off as his own, as he usually does.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

Blundell just said Pillar would swing at a balk

That doesn't even make sense....So of course it came from Blundell

 

[DaveMatthew]

Are there any prospects that could make the jump next year, full-time? Pompey? Alford? Tellez?

 

[one77]

Are there any prospects that could make the jump next year, full-time? Pompey? Alford? Tellez?

IMO Alford and Tellez can.

Urena is my #1 prospect but he won't make the club until Tulowitzki is gone or injured. But Urena has elite potential I think.

SRF has ace potential but with our pitching core being as good as it is, I see management taking their time with SRF. Same situation as Urena. Not a bad problem to have really.

But I could see Alford and Tellez making the big club

------------


Sanchez
Estrada
Happ
Stroman
Liriano

Biagini, Barnes
Cecil (re-signed), Grilli (re-signed), Chapman (signed)
Osuna


Travis 2B
Reddick RF
Donaldson 3B
Encarnacion DH
Tulowitzki SS
Tellez 1B
Alford LF
Martin C
Pillar CF

Carrera OF, Smoak 1B/DH, Upton Jr. OF, Barney 2B/SS

Urena SS and Reid-Foley RHP are probably our #1/#2 prospects so take your time with them.

 

[Eyedea]

Alford will need time but I think Harold Ramirez could surprise. Pompey should get the chance to stick first but it's good to have this amount of competition internally. Even if Upton falters they could dump him and bring up Ramirez to face lefties.

Also McGuire as the backup C. The power likely will never come around but he at least has some good discipline and contact, plus scouts have always raved about his blocking and throwing skills.

 

[Discoverer]

I guess Rowdy could be considered longshot, but they likely let him get some experience at AAA and consider him a mid-season callup.

Alford is just too far away, and I assume they want to give him a chance to cut down his Ks against minor league pitching before he takes the next step. He'll probably start at AA.

 

[Loosie]

When Steve Simmons is a voice of reason....

http://www.tsn.ca/video/breakfast-club-will-jays-consider-trading-donaldson~977353

 

[Eyedea]

Donaldson's four year peak (2013-16) is 6 fWAR less than Trout, a generational player. The next player over that span is Paul Goldschmidt, 8 fWAR behind Donaldson.

Goldy should probably be a little closer over that span but gets hit hard due to positional adjustment (he is an elite 1B offensively and defensively after all), but it kind of just shows you the impact Donaldson has in the game. He has broken past the Trout/Everybody barrier and created his own tier.

 

[theaub]

When Steve Simmons is a voice of reason....

http://www.tsn.ca/video/breakfast-club-will-jays-consider-trading-donaldson~977353

Damn just makes me wonder if maybe I'm wrong

 

[Eyedea]

I don't know if this was ever mentioned before but John Sickels released an end of the year top 100 prospect ranking a month ago.

67) Richard Urena, SS, Toronto Blue Jays, Grade B+: Unranked pre-season with Grade B-
73) Sean Reid-Foley, RHP, Toronto Blue Jays, Grade B: Unranked pre-season with Grade B-.

Incomplete list of others considered:

Brady Aiken, LHP, Indians; Anthony Alford, OF, Blue Jays; Harrison Bader, OF, Cardinals; Beau Burrows, RHP, Tigers; A.J. Cole, RHP, Nationals; Jacob Faria, RHP, Rays; Taylor Guerrieri, RHP, Rays; Ke'Bryan Hayes, 3B, Pirates; Tyler Jay, LHP, Twins; Trey Mancini, 1B, Orioles; Frankie Montas, RHP, Athletics; Brett Phillips, OF, Brewers; Cody Reed, LHP, Reds; Austin Riley, 3B, Braves; Lucas Sims, RHP, Braves; Chance Sisco, C, Orioles; Christin Stewart, OF, Tigers; Dillon Tate, RHP, Yankees; Rowdy Tellez, 1B, Blue Jays; Nick Williams, OF, Phillies;

Didn't consider Vlad Jr in the top 100 yet but has him in the 100-150 range.

 

[Discoverer]

Alford will need time but I think Harold Ramirez could surprise. Pompey should get the chance to stick first but it's good to have this amount of competition internally. Even if Upton falters they could dump him and bring up Ramirez to face lefties.

Also McGuire as the backup C. The power likely will never come around but he at least has some good discipline and contact, plus scouts have always raved about his blocking and throwing skills.

I think it's more likely Jimenez gets the backup C spot and McGuire starts at AAA so he gets regular playing time.

 

[Discoverer]

I don't know if this was ever mentioned before but John Sickels released an end of the year top 100 prospect ranking a month ago.

67) Richard Urena, SS, Toronto Blue Jays, Grade B+: Unranked pre-season with Grade B-
73) Sean Reid-Foley, RHP, Toronto Blue Jays, Grade B: Unranked pre-season with Grade B-.

Incomplete list of others considered:

Brady Aiken, LHP, Indians; Anthony Alford, OF, Blue Jays; Harrison Bader, OF, Cardinals; Beau Burrows, RHP, Tigers; A.J. Cole, RHP, Nationals; Jacob Faria, RHP, Rays; Taylor Guerrieri, RHP, Rays; Ke'Bryan Hayes, 3B, Pirates; Tyler Jay, LHP, Twins; Trey Mancini, 1B, Orioles; Frankie Montas, RHP, Athletics; Brett Phillips, OF, Brewers; Cody Reed, LHP, Reds; Austin Riley, 3B, Braves; Lucas Sims, RHP, Braves; Chance Sisco, C, Orioles; Christin Stewart, OF, Tigers; Dillon Tate, RHP, Yankees; Rowdy Tellez, 1B, Blue Jays; Nick Williams, OF, Phillies;

I was surprised Alford didn't at least sneak back onto the back-end of the Top 100, given the way he dominated the second half. I'm not surprised by the scouting opinions on Rowdy anymore.

The farm system right now reminds me a lot of the early Anthopoulos days where there are a lot of high-end prospects at the lower levels that need to prove themselves before finding their way onto these lists.

 

[Eyedea]

I think it's more likely Jimenez gets the backup C spot and McGuire starts at AAA so he gets regular playing time.

Are you suggesting that AJ Jimenez won't get injured on his way to Toronto?

 

[Leaf_Crazy]

Donaldson's four year peak (2013-16) is 6 fWAR less than Trout, a generational player. The next player over that span is Paul Goldschmidt, 8 fWAR behind Donaldson.

Goldy should probably be a little closer over that span but gets hit hard due to positional adjustment (he is an elite 1B offensively and defensively after all), but it kind of just shows you the impact Donaldson has in the game. He has broken past the Trout/Everybody barrier and created his own tier.

Well put.

 

[Discoverer]

Are you suggesting that AJ Jimenez won't get injured on his way to Toronto?

Hm. Fair enough.

Either way, I can get behind a defense-first catcher with a questionable bat. If nothing else, it's better than a knuckleball-only catcher with a terrible bat.

 

[The Nemesis]

That was Dirk Hayhurst. He strikes me as a guy who loves the sound of his own voice and spews b.s. as a result.

I heard it live and all I could do was shake my head. A move like that would just set the franchise back years and destroy whatever goodwill's been built up the last season and a half.

If I can moderate (as in tempering, not as in my purple user name ) Hayhurst's comments, there's a written piece on TSN.ca by him where he plays armchair GM. In it he doesn't suggest that the Jays should trade Donaldson, only that nobody's name should be off limits in trade talks (except maybe Sanchez). He's more so suggesting that you could use the winter to gauge Donaldson's peak value (since that's probably where we're at now. He's not likely to get any better, and the team isn't likely to take monumental steps forward in the next year or two) so that you have a starting point if the retool of the roster fails and the Jays start imploding, rather than waiting until that happens and risking getting squeezed by a GM that knows you don't have a starting point to work from.

The reality of the comments seems far less salacious than "Dirk Hayhurst said they should entertain shipping Donaldson out right now.") It was more "hope for the best, prepare for the worst."


For the record, I absolutely do not advocate trading Donaldson. I think he should be here for the long term. But I see the logic in at least peeking behind the door labeled "worst case scenario" just so you don't get caught unaware if it ends up being the path you're headed down in a-few-months-to-a-year because the random chance gods ****ed you over on injuries/regression/market conditions/whatever.

 

[TheTotalPackage]

If I can moderate (as in tempering, not as in my purple user name ) Hayhurst's comments, there's a written piece on TSN.ca by him where he plays armchair GM. In it he doesn't suggest that the Jays should trade Donaldson, only that nobody's name should be off limits in trade talks (except maybe Sanchez). He's more so suggesting that you could use the winter to gauge Donaldson's peak value (since that's probably where we're at now. He's not likely to get any better, and the team isn't likely to take monumental steps forward in the next year or two) so that you have a starting point if the retool of the roster fails and the Jays start imploding, rather than waiting until that happens and risking getting squeezed by a GM that knows you don't have a starting point to work from.

The reality of the comments seems far less salacious than "Dirk Hayhurst said they should entertain shipping Donaldson out right now.") It was more "hope for the best, prepare for the worst."


For the record, I absolutely do not advocate trading Donaldson. I think he should be here for the long term. But I see the logic in at least peeking behind the door labeled "worst case scenario" just so you don't get caught unaware if it ends up being the path you're headed down in a-few-months-to-a-year because the random chance gods ****ed you over on injuries/regression/market conditions/whatever.

Yeah, Hayhurst did follow up on the radio saying that he isn't advocating trading him, but at least it should be explored. Which is fine. I don't think a GM is doing his job if he isn't willing to at least pick up the phone from another GM regarding any player (including Sanchez).

But just the thought/idea of it is a scary proposition. I think infinite more effort should be made trying to re-sign Donaldson long term so he could end his career as a Jay as opposed to contemplating "hope for the best, prepare for the worst" scenarios. Quite frankly, I think trading Donaldson (which I assume would be for a boatload future talent in preparation of a retool/rebuild, otherwise they're better off just keeping him) would be devastating for the organization, the management group and the fans. I know I may be sensationalizing it a bit by using the term devastating, but we saw what happened with the Halladay situation. I don't think at this juncture the team could withstand another one of those.

 

[Discoverer]

Yeah, Hayhurst did follow up on the radio saying that he isn't advocating trading him, but at least it should be explored. Which is fine. I don't think a GM is doing his job if he isn't willing to at least pick up the phone from another GM regarding any player (including Sanchez).

But just the thought/idea of it is a scary proposition. I think infinite more effort should be made trying to re-sign Donaldson long term so he could end his career as a Jay as opposed to contemplating "hope for the best, prepare for the worst" scenarios. Quite frankly, I think trading Donaldson (which I assume would be for a boatload future talent in preparation of a retool/rebuild, otherwise they're better off just keeping him) would be devastating for the organization, the management group and the fans. I know I may be sensationalizing it a bit by using the term devastating, but we saw what happened with the Halladay situation. I don't think at this juncture the team could withstand another one of those.

The biggest difference is that the Halladay trade was the start of a rebuild that basically had to happen. It was a necessary move for the team to be able to move forward and build for the future because they had nothing else of value.

Now, however, it's not just Donaldson. They have several other extremely valuable pieces to surround him with, so the "need" to trade him just isn't there the way it was with Halladay.