Blue Jays Discussion: Thus Endth the 2016 Season..

Status
Not open for further replies.

Mach85

Registered User
Mar 14, 2013
3,898
671
In every freaking way. Pillard is so freaking overrated. Upton jr has a way better bat, way better at running the bases a way better arm and his range is just as wide as Pillar's is if not better do to his speed. Plays where Pillard is diving to catch Upton makes look a lot more easy. Upton is a lot like Devon White.

Defence is not all about speed. If this were the case, Billy Hamilton would be the best CFer of all time. Upton can't hold Pillar's jockstrap in CF.
 

Finlandia WOAT

js7.4x8fnmcf5070124
May 23, 2010
24,134
23,681
Upton Jr. is not a better defensive player than the guy who finished 5th and 6th overall in defensive WAR the past two years.

(He'll also win a Gold Glove in CF this year, but that's because of Kiermaier's injury)
 

dimi78

Registered User
Aug 9, 2008
4,348
294
Defence is not all about speed. If this were the case, Billy Hamilton would be the best CFer of all time. Upton can't hold Pillar's jockstrap in CF.

Continue to overrate Pillar he's a mediocre CF that at times makes some spectacular plays that you guys glorified. Your right it's not all about speed defensively Upton beats him those things like an arm for instance as well.

Hope they get rid of this guy in the worst way.
 

TF97

Registered User
Jul 4, 2010
12,291
478
Halifax, NS
Upton Jr. is not a better defensive player than the guy who finished 5th and 6th overall in defensive WAR the past two years.

(He'll also win a Gold Glove in CF this year, but that's because of Kiermaier's injury)

I would still honestly vote for Kiermaier, but I am not sure that I can see him winning due to his injury as you pointed out. Despite playing over 400 less innings in CF than Pillar, Kiermaier still beats Kevin at DRS and assists. His UZR/150 is also just below Pillars. It truly is amazing how good Kiermaier is defensively, he might be the best defensive outfielder that I have ever seen. If he can keep up the offense he showed this year, then the Rays have themselves a 6 win player.
 

Mach85

Registered User
Mar 14, 2013
3,898
671
Continue to overrate Pillar he's a mediocre CF that at times makes some spectacular plays that you guys glorified. Your right it's not all about speed defensively Upton beats him those things like an arm for instance as well.

Hope they get rid of this guy in the worst way.

Any metrics to support your point? dWAR favours Pillar by so large of a margin this shouldn't even be a conversation. In sum, all objective evidence points to you severely underrating him.
 

Kurtz

Registered User
Jul 17, 2005
10,034
6,893
Stats say Upton has been average defensively over the past 3 season. The eyeball test shows that while he has good speed, he also has a tendency to give up on the ball (unlike Pillar).

You can't compare his defense to Pillar's in any way, shape or form.
 

metafour

Registered User
Apr 6, 2008
1,795
610
In every freaking way. Pillard is so freaking overrated. Upton jr has a way better bat, way better at running the bases a way better arm and his range is just as wide as Pillar's is if not better do to his speed. Plays where Pillard is diving to catch Upton makes look a lot more easy. Upton is a lot like Devon White at CF.

Dear god.

Nothing that you have stated is backed by ANY objective analysis; its not even backed by subjective analysis as anyone who has ever seen the two play defense can quite easily conclude that Pillar is a far superior defender. BJ Upton is not even in the same ball-park defensively; to argue otherwise is to try and convince yourself that 2+2=6.
 
Last edited:

deletethis

Registered User
Mar 17, 2015
7,910
2,486
Toronto
It's possible to like and appreciate Pillar but know that his contributions are exaggerated at the same time. Only the White Sox, Houston and Oakland had worse offensive contribution from the CF position in the 2016 AL. It's an area that could be upgraded.
 

Mach85

Registered User
Mar 14, 2013
3,898
671
It's possible to like and appreciate Pillar but know that his contributions are exaggerated at the same time. Only the White Sox, Houston and Oakland had worse offensive contribution from the CF position in the 2016 AL. It's an area that could be upgraded.

Sure, like any area can always be upgraded (unless you have Mike Trout there). But he was 9th among CFers in WAR and is young and controllable, at a premium position. That stability has major value. There are other areas that need addressing.
 

dredeye

BJ Elitist/Hipster
Mar 3, 2008
27,063
2,760
I wonder what kind of value Pillar would have on the trade market.

I think you need to look at a small market team that wants cheap players like Oakland or the marlins. Marlins more because of Loria. Maybe reds. I think there would be a market for him. The real question is what kind of return could you actually get for him? What position do you address trading him?
 

Eyedea

The Legend Continues
Jan 29, 2012
27,405
3,231
Toronto, Ontario
Might be safe to say at this point that Pillar is a +20 defender and doing so at a premium position. Simmons netted a top 30 prospect, a non prospect, and a salary dump but also had a 7/58 deal, whereas Pillar still has a year of pre-arb left.

Wouldn't be surprised to see his value set around a couple top 100 spects, maybe one high end in the 30-50 range. I just wouldn't know where the interest comes from. Plus it'd be kind of lateral (if not negative) in the sense that we're trading a very clearly valuable, controllable player at a time where we're competing.
 

dredeye

BJ Elitist/Hipster
Mar 3, 2008
27,063
2,760
Sure, like any area can always be upgraded (unless you have Mike Trout there). But he was 9th among CFers in WAR and is young and controllable, at a premium position. That stability has major value. There are other areas that need addressing.

He just not the type of player that I think you get full value back on. One of those better to keep I would think. We do need some cost control.
 

TF97

Registered User
Jul 4, 2010
12,291
478
Halifax, NS
I wonder what kind of value Pillar would have on the trade market.

I have wondered this since last season. I always was for the idea of dealing Pillar if we could get a young-controllable starter for him. Then either fill the CF position with a short term veteran while Pompey/Alford play in the minors (assuming Pompey wouldn't be given the everyday CF job).
 

Glenn Isildur Healy

Registered User
Oct 8, 2013
4,524
686
CBC Studios
Let's go shopping this off-season. I would love to get Dexter Fowler, Mike Napoli and Carlos Beltran if we can't re-sign EE and let Bats, Saunders go

Fowler (LF)
Travis (2B)
Donaldson (3B)
Beltran (DH)
Tulo (SS)
Napoli (1B)
Martin (C)
Upton (RF)
Pillar (CF)
 

King Mapes

Sub to My YouTube Blocks_4_days
Feb 9, 2008
28,862
1,162
Edmonton
It's possible to like and appreciate Pillar but know that his contributions are exaggerated at the same time. Only the White Sox, Houston and Oakland had worse offensive contribution from the CF position in the 2016 AL. It's an area that could be upgraded.

I like the real good defensive CFers.
 

Mach85

Registered User
Mar 14, 2013
3,898
671
He just not the type of player that I think you get full value back on. One of those better to keep I would think. We do need some cost control.

Agreed. Slotting Pillar in allows us to funnel money elsewhere and fill bigger holes.
 

Suntouchable13

Registered User
Dec 20, 2003
43,031
18,044
Toronto, ON
With EE and Bautista both possibly leaving Toronto, I thought it would be fun to reminisce about the 2 trades that got them here. I remember when JP traded for Bautista, that was seen just a swap of 2 really underwhelming players. Bautista actually played a lot for us in 2009 but for some reason I don't remember much from that season. He was just some depth guy on a pretty bad team.

When we got EE, he was just a throw in in the Rolen trade. Discarded by Cinci. Oh man, he was so terrible at 3rd. I remember the E5 and E-crap days.

How do you remember those 2 trades? And their early days with Toronto?
 

TheBeastCoast

Registered User
Mar 23, 2011
30,944
30,722
Dartmouth,NS
I remember the spring training before Bautista's 54 home run season and Cito started him in the lead off spot and he absolutely raked in March. I didn't think much of it, he proved everybody wrong pretty quickly. EE was really frustrating for quite a while when he first got here(hence him getting waived) I don't think he ever really found his own until they scrapped him playing 3rd and he seemingly found plate disicpline over a winter.
 

nilan30

Registered User
Jan 14, 2004
2,320
983
My only concern with pillar is that either his body breaks down or he has to change his approach a bit to prevent that. I think he's a little bit too young to worry about it at this point. He's also a little too young to assume he'll never become a better hitter.
 

nilan30

Registered User
Jan 14, 2004
2,320
983
Crazy idea for a line up


Travis DH (The idea is to keep him healthy to keep what I feel could be a special bat if he develops a more disciplined approach. He has shown some(not a lot but some) "pop" which is typically wanted from DH)
.

I've wondered at times how Travis would do at first. He's a small target so that's one knock against that idea
 

Eyedea

The Legend Continues
Jan 29, 2012
27,405
3,231
Toronto, Ontario
With EE and Bautista both possibly leaving Toronto, I thought it would be fun to reminisce about the 2 trades that got them here. I remember when JP traded for Bautista, that was seen just a swap of 2 really underwhelming players. Bautista actually played a lot for us in 2009 but for some reason I don't remember much from that season. He was just some depth guy on a pretty bad team.

When we got EE, he was just a throw in in the Rolen trade. Discarded by Cinci. Oh man, he was so terrible at 3rd. I remember the E5 and E-crap days.

How do you remember those 2 trades? And their early days with Toronto?

Drabek, Romero, Morrow, Cecil, and Stewart (from the Rolen trade) was suppose to be a top tier rotation.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->