This team needs a shakeup. What do you do?

[Crede777]

I think it's a matter of time/experience and being honest with players.

This team is Fantilli, Marchenko, Johnson, and Jiricek's team with Jenner and Werenski as veteran leaders. As such, we won't be serious until those four develop further. For Gaudreau and Laine, they aren't the focal points. They won't get all the PP time and offensive zone starts.

Johnson - Fantilli - Laine (Jenner if Laine is injured)
Marchenko - Voronkov - Chinakhov
Gaudreau - Jenner (Sillinger if Jenner is up) - Danforth
Texier - Kuraly - Sillinger (Olivier if Sillinger is up)

Werenski - Severson
Provorov - Jiricek
Gudbranson - Boqvist
Blankenberg

Elvis
Martin

PP 1:
Jenner
Laine Fantilli Gaudreau
Jiricek

PP 2:
Voronkov
Chinakhov Johnson Chinakhov
Boqvist

 

[KJ Dangler]

Let's suppose he scores 40 points in the final 50, and finishes the season with 32-20-52 in 71 games. He and his agent wants a 4-6 year extension. What would be a realistic AAV in that scenario?

Sounds like a great problem to have… he would have one great year of production .. and the team looking at his elite speed , elite shot confident more is to come

 

[Crede777]

Let's suppose he scores 40 points in the final 50, and finishes the season with 32-20-52 in 71 games. He and his agent wants a 4-6 year extension. What would be a realistic AAV in that scenario?

4 years 4.5 - 5 million per.

 

[stevo61]

Let's suppose he scores 40 points in the final 50, and finishes the season with 32-20-52 in 71 games. He and his agent wants a 4-6 year extension. What would be a realistic AAV in that scenario?

I mean if he reaches that level why would we be worried about it? Id imagine he takes over Roslovics deal in that scenario on a short to medium term, probably be tense negotiations on that one.

With Bean, Roslovic, Bemstrom and Martin all having contracts up alkng with our current space we will have 10mil to work with if nothing changes. There will likely be more moves though and of course cap going up and the $ from the RFA deals currently. Also if they cant move Peeke and buy him out his deal would be 900k for 4 years, could also be an option

 

[NotWendell]

Chinakov is not the problem. The problem is systemic.

 

[stevo61]

Chinakov is not the problem. The problem is systemic.

Hes been one of the solutions lately. Confidence is key and the Russians have it right now

 

[tunnelvision]

4 years 4.5 - 5 million per.

How did you end up with those numbers? McCann got a 5x5 deal in 2022 after scoring 27-23-50 in 74 games. Konecny got 5.5x6 in 2019 after a 24-25-49 in 82 season.

I mean if he reaches that level why would we be worried about it? Id imagine he takes over Roslovics deal in that scenario on a short to medium term, probably be tense negotiations on that one.

You said he will be cheap. I'd like to know what would be a cheap 4+ year extension for a 23-year old 30G 50P scorer.

 

[stevo61]

How did you end up with those numbers? McCann got a 5x5 deal in 2022 after scoring 27-23-50 in 74 games. Konecny got 5.5x6 in 2019 after 24-25-49 in 82.


You said he will be cheap. I'd like to know what would be a cheap 4+ year extension for a 23-year old 30G 50P scorer.

You created a scenario after my comment. Kind of changes things when you change the script doesnt it?

 

[tunnelvision]

You created a scenario after my comment. Kind of changes things when you change the script doesnt it?

Ok I'll phrase my question differently.

You said he won't cost a lot. What do you expect his season statline will be like at the end of year, and how much would it cost to extend him for 1 year? 2 years? 3 years? 4, 5, 6?

 

[stevo61]

Ok I'll phrase my question differently.

You said he won't cost a lot. What do you expect his season statline will be like at the end of year, and how much would it cost to extend him for 1 year? 2 years? 3 years? 4, 5, 6?

I didnt expect 30g 50p but if he hits it I think he gets roslovic type prove it wasnt a fluke deal. maybe 4-5mil for 2-3 years. Hes 2 points off his career high (yes games played has a hand in that) so I dont think you go too high on the years for him just yet even if he is just 22. You can reassess after a bridge deal. But any way you slice it hes improved significantly since hes been here, Id like to see where it goes myself.

 

[tunnelvision]

I didnt expect 30g 50p but if he hits it I think he gets roslovic type prove it wasnt a fluke deal. maybe 4-5mil for 2-3 years. Hes 2 points off his career high (yes games played has a hand in that) so I dont think you go too high on the years for him just yet even if he is just 22. You can reassess after a bridge deal. But any way you slice it hes improved significantly since hes been here, Id like to see where it goes myself.

Ok so we agree that he shouldn't be signed for 4+ years just yet.

 

[stevo61]

Ok so we agree that he shouldn't be signed for 4+ years just yet.

Which is fine but I dont think Tex is there either unless its super cheap. He hasnt really been a shining ray of light all season even if he started out as one. Maybe when the roster is healthy again and we get Texier-Kuraly-Danforth it would look better but hes been as inconsistent as anyone.

 

[majormajor]

There is a nice relief that comes with a mini sell-off. We're supposed to lose, so it's okay, we can just enjoy the kids scoring goals. And they have been impressive.

But does it actually help us turn the corner faster? Teams have to try to be good in order to learn how to do it. Players have to learn where to be on the ice to support each other. We need the predictability, the roles have to be learned. Last season was pure chaos. It's going to take time.

 

[Crede777]

How did you end up with those numbers? McCann got a 5x5 deal in 2022 after scoring 27-23-50 in 74 games. Konecny got 5.5x6 in 2019 after a 24-25-49 in 82 season.

I think Jarmo uses his own numbers for reference much to the frustration of players. So I would base it off of Laine's contract for term. As for AAV, it's similar to what players have gotten here with a successful season right before the end of their ELC.

 

[jacketsnation]

Am I the only one who sees Werenski fumble the puck at the worst times? Mess up power plays, turn puck over leading to scores.
my biggest issue is he just doesn't hustle ever just floats around the ice. So many goals are on him and no one talks about it.
yes he's got a great shot, his defense has improved but he costs us more games then people realize.
Imagine a Nylander for Werenski trade.

Tor could really use Zack and we really need a guy with heart like Nylander

 

[majormajor]

my biggest issue is he just doesn't hustle ever just floats around the ice.

I think folks don't respect how powerful his stride is, he takes two steps where another player needs three or four. Other players need to hustle to keep up with Zach.

 

[CBJx614]

I think folks don't respect how powerful his stride is, he takes two steps where another player needs three or four. Other players need to hustle to keep up with Zach.

I mean a few nights ago in OT he was on a breakaway and then was the first one back when the puck went the other way lol

 

[jacketsnation]

Just watch the tape. His body language and effort on most goals. Sure he can skate when he wants to I think he just quits.

Culture issue imo. Needs to go

 

[majormajor]

Just watch the tape. His body language and effort on most goals. Sure he can skate when he wants to I think he just quits.

Culture issue imo. Needs to go

I'm watching the same tape you are, and that's not what I see.

 

[Farmboy Patty]

#3 especially! Our highly paid veteran stars, as a group, are flatliners. That’s not a complaint about any one of them individually. Just that all of them, together, don’t have the “hair on fire” leadership/play style to bring others into the battle. Boone has that, but he’s just one and while highly productive he’s not the high-end talent that draws the young guns in. Fantilli has it, just getting started. Marchenko, in a different way, has it. I like what I see in Provorov thus far on that front. But you need at least some of your veteran stars (I.e higher salary players like tje 4 listed in your item 3 to be in that group. They all don’t have to go, but a new GM needs to re-balance the roster with more guys who are relentless AND talented. And that’s not JK. He can draft but he doesn’t identify how a team fits together. JG is a wonderful player - they all are or they wouldn’t be in the NHL. It isn’t just whether JG or Laine or Severson or ZW fit - it’s figuring out the fabric of the entire roster fitting together. And JK’s desire to “win the trade” or “win the contract negotiation” is not conducive to weaving that fabric. Finds lots of valuable parts, but not ones that necessarily fit together.
Lots of good young players - but need vets who can lead AND who are ultra-talented. We don’t have enough of those, imo. We have leaders, we have talented vets, we just don’t have many with both qualities. Fantilli makes me happy on that front, but if you are waiting for rookies to be “those guys” without adding/replacing some of the vets w players of skill but higher motors to lead, are realistically 5 years away. So figure out which of the top group can be great followers ( you can’t change their natural make up) and trade the others for the right fabric.

I really like your post, but the lack of paragraphs makes my dyslexic head hurt

 

[jacketsnation]

I really like your post, but the lack of paragraphs makes my dyslexic head hurt

Agreed well written, I would defend jk with one point. We did make moves to bring in those guys. Panarin, duchane, even though I think duchane isn't the guy u are talking about. IMO the problem has been not having people want to come here or stay here once their contact expires.

I agree his need to win the trade or have a hockey trade limits our growth and his contract negotiations for rfa has rubbed players rhe wrong way. I honestly think we can't roll out the same roster next year. I think a major shift of leaders needs to happen. Even if we have to over pay a bit.


I really like our young guns but like you said we need heart.

You have a great insight on things, who would you target that potentially could be traded for? What would you package to make that happen? over paying in FA isn't the answer.

Really would love to here your thoughts, u have good hockey mind

 

[Marioesque]

Am I the only one who sees Werenski fumble the puck at the worst times? Mess up power plays, turn puck over leading to scores.
my biggest issue is he just doesn't hustle ever just floats around the ice. So many goals are on him and no one talks about it.
yes he's got a great shot, his defense has improved but he costs us more games then people realize.
Imagine a Nylander for Werenski trade.

Tor could really use Zack and we really need a guy with heart like Nylander

No way leafs do it because of the reasons you listed

 

[Monstershockey]

I get Werenski is this year's whipping boy, but I don't understand it. He has always had a calm demeanor about him and has always played this way. Torts had the same issues with him and when he finally figured out that this is how he plays, he got over it.

I haven't had a problem with Werenski this year, and because of his injuries the last few years, I can understand him being a little gun shy when going into corners. He should get past it, but he never really has been a physical player.

Same with the PP. It isn't working well, but I don't think he is the only problem. I have no problem moving him around and trying to find something that works, that is just normal. If he ends up off the PP so be it.

Also, offensively he has the most points in the first 30 games of a season in his career this year. He may not be scoring, but is racking up assists. He has his highest assist per game (0.73), in his career, also this year.

 

[cbjthrowaway]

everyone seems to be on the same page with these things:

1. if they bring in a new front office, that regime won't look to just continue whatever jarmo was doing
2. they'll also have different evaluations of current roster players
3. that means shipping players out to get roster flexibility + assets

the specifics of #3 are rife for debate, but:

1. given the lack of cap space around the league, guys like laine, severson and elvis either aren't moveable or wouldn't return anything of value
2. the current FO has been trying to offload guys like roslovic, bean, boqvist and peeke for a while, suffice to say they're not moveable either
3. werenski/gaudreau are theoretically moveable, but would have extremely limited markets due to their AAV and NTC, so a new FO is better off waiting to move them specifically

which means they guys who would be most likely to be moved:

1. have lower cap hits and shorter-term deals
2. have some semblance of trade value
3. aren't already on the block

that only leaves three names: ivan provorov, alex texier and boone jenner. i get why that last one would be unpopular, but he fits the criteria. could maybe add names like danforth and blankenburg to the list, too.

I haven't had a problem with Werenski this year, and because of his injuries the last few years, I can understand him being a little gun shy when going into corners. He should get past it, but he never really has been a physical player.

werenski's been really good this year, my only real issues with him are:

1. he doesn't seem to be comfortable with his shot yet – in previous years he'd be slinging snap shots through traffic and getting them through, this year he's missing the net. that'll come back with time
2. when he doesn't have the puck on the power play, he stays in place instead of trying to anticipate where the puck is going, which leads to them losing the zone a ton. other than that, he looks better as a power play distributor than he has in the past

 

[Neill99]

1. promote the face of the franchise Rick Nash into as General manager and listen to offers it won't hurt and leave some players as untouchables.