These Playoffs Have Involved the Most Dirty, "non-hockey" Plays in a Long Time.

[Aspirine]

It's definitely been chippy. A throw back to old time hockey that's for sure. Love it.

Direct result of the league cracking down on enforcers/fighting imo.

Players wouldn't take these gutless liberties if they knew someone would be hunting them if they tried it.

Bring back fighting...problem solved.

So which is it? Are we back to something good or are we missing it??! I need directions please!

 

[PatriceBergeronFan]

I'm not even particularly a Marchand hater, I just hate dirty plays in general.

For people who disagree with me, and who are clearly biased due to their love for Marchand, what do you think of Hedman's spear on Hischier? Just good, hard nosed hockey?

Maybe try focusing on worthy discussion points like that next time then.

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

There have been just countless plays in these playoffs that have been extremely dirty, with a clear intent to injure. The most recent that I saw was Marchand's sliding tackle on Johnsson. That was not a "good hard hockey play" at all. I see people in every thread saying "if you think this is dirty, watch soccer", and yet, when a player looks like they imported FIFA slide tackle controls into NHL 18, suddenly it's not dirty?

There have been SO many legitimately dirty, suspendable, intent to injure plays in these playoffs that have been completely ignored by the league. It's absolutely hilarious that one of the only plays to actually receive a suspension was Doughty's hit, which, dirty or not, was:

1. A play where it could at least be argued that the player was trying to play hockey and make a play that would help his team regain puck possession.
2. A play where the opposing player was not injured.

I am not a fan of Doughty, and I could understand that hit being 1 game, but I can also see the argument that he was at least PLAYING HOCKEY. His hit on William Carrier, in some way, was an attempt to increase his team's chances of scoring a goal and reduces the enemy team's chances of scoring a goal.

We've got countless plays that are not hockey plays at all - things like Marchand's Paul Bunyon slash, Marchand's slide tackle, Subban's elbow to the head, Haula's butt end, McNabb's ridiculous interference, etc., that haven't even received 2 minute minors in the game!

I'll call it the "Marchand syndrome." I think Marchand does so much dirty **** in nearly every single game he plays that it has gotten to a point where people can't even focus on one dirty play because he just made another one 5 seconds ago. I also think that Marchand is not the only culprit; there are so many players in these playoffs who are doing this stupid **** that it has just become normal, and now any time somebody questions these plays, they are suddenly "good, hard hockey".

Ice hockey is a contact sport in which two teams attempt to score more goals than one another. Due to the physical nature of the game, some plays like Drew Doughty's body check on William Carrier are simply seen as good, hard hockey hits. I don't think anybody on either side of the argument will argue that they aren't on a fairly thin line, whichever side they're on. But things like Hedman's spear to Hischier, Marchand's slide tackle on Johnsson or Subban's elbow to the head of MacKinnon are NOT HOCKEY PLAYS. That isn't hard, old school hockey because it is NOT HOCKEY. It is not an attempt to facilitate a goal for and/or prevent a goal against in any way; it is merely an attempt to injure an opposing player so that they can not attempt to facilitate a goal for and/or prevent a goal against.

Plays like Drew Doughty's hit on William Carrier will always exist in hockey as long as checking is allowed. They may be cracked down on, but as long as players are allowed to check one another, there will be situations in which a player makes an honest error in judgment, believing a body check to both the best play available, and connects with the head, causing potential head injuries. I agree with and fully support the NHL's decision to crack down on these plays. However, these plays will always be a part of hockey - some of them will be honest mistakes, some of them will be "mistakes on purpose", and some of them will be clearly intentional, like Scott Stevens' iconic hits on Paul Kariya or Eric Lindros; hits that have been almost entirely phased out of the game.

However, slamming your stick into the testicles of another player's testicles IS NOT HOCKEY. It is not an attempt to separate an opposing player from the puck with a legal check; not even an accident that results in that check being of the dangerous and illegal variety. It is NOT HOCKEY.

If the NHL sent out a memo tomorrow that any player who ever hit another player in the head would be suspended forever, we would still see a few players hit the heads of opposing players by accident. But if the NHL sent out a memo tomorrow that said any player who intentionally swung his stick at the testicles of an opposing player (spearing) would be suspended tomorrow, WE WOULD NEVER SEE ANOTHER SPEAR.

The department of player safety is supposed to prevent players from intentionally harming one another, and make hockey as safe of a sport as possible. I understand this can be very difficult, given that the fact that hockey is a contact sport; rough in nature, with legal fights between two players occurring quite often, and remaining a part of the culture of the game. Sometimes the lines get blurred on hockey plays like Drew Doughty's hit on William Carrier, or scrums where both players seem like willing contestants. But on plays like Victor Hedman's spear on Nico Hischier, or Brad Marchand's slide tackle on Andreas Johnsson, there is no doubt what happened, there was an INTENT TO INJURE.

The NHL decided to crack down on slashing at the start of the year. We saw almost any very light whack called as a 2 minute minor. How is that after an 82 game season and only 3 (and some change from game 4s currently being played) games into the playoffs, a vicious stick swing to the testicles of another man, a clear disregard of playing the objective of hockey, is suddenly only a 2 minute minor and therefore only as big of a deal as a light whack on the gloves, which was clearly an attempt at a player's stick, in order to play the objective of hockey?

Yea, I tried making a similar point yesterday but the majority of people are all for this recent nonsense.

Proof that you can't educate neanderthals

 

[Bingo71]

Fighting won’t solve anything because fights in today’s NHL are between each team’s resident meathead. That solves nothing.

For instance, your team’s star player get run or nut shot by the other team’s rat. Your team’s meathead challenges the rat to fight but he won’t because he’s a rat. So your team’s meathead instead challenges the other team’s meathead to fight. Solves nothing.

What actually happens is that teams get away with targeting players on the other team and they frustrated and start taking runs and vicious slashes back and the issue compounds throughout the game and the series. The refs don’t nip the bull**** in the bud right from the get go and it just grows out of control from there.

Forearm shivers to the head, cup checks, two handed slashes, slewfoots, sucker punches, cross checks to the head and neck, etc aren’t hockey plays and should be cracked down on. Guys are tired of trying to play hockey and instead getting mauled and cheap shotted all over the ice.

 

[blueberrie]

The refs just need to call penalties. It's honestly that easy. It's amazing that hits from behind are suddenly good hockey plays in the playoffs. If you watch your buddy get driven head first into the boards from the numbers without a call you're going to not care about taking a couple extra strides, or jumping for your next hit. Everything just escalates.

 

[member 147413]

Every one should go watch the "Ice Guardians" Doc on netflix. Very obvious what is happening right now without enforcers out there keeping things in check. The rats are running free in this league without fear. I know I am a Bruins fan, and we have one of the biggest "rats" but I guarantee you if Kadri/Marchand's of the world were doing their thing back in the early 90's Wendel Clark and Cam Neely both feed these guys their lunch every time they do something stupid. The instigator rule really changed hockey.

And that's not to say pest dont have a place in hockey. They lived back then too. Many examples. I actually like pests as long as they dont injure players. I think its super entertaining, their doing what they can to get under the skin of the opponent and help their team win. However, if they injure or INTEND to injure a player with their antics I am completely against it. I think that is what were seeing more of in today's game.

I love Marchand for the most part, but I will not defend him when he clearly crosses that line. It wasnt really until this last season maybe two that he has crossed that line IMO (there might be evidence previously I just cant remember everything). Ill give two examples in regards to Marchand in particular. Lightly punching Sedin in the face repeatedly is the antic of a pest doing his job (which like I said, in the old days would have been dealt with by Gino Odjick quite swiftly). Where as the incident in NJ with Marchand giving Johansson a flying elbow to me is crossing the line and should not be in the game. Frankly since there are no "Guardians" out there anymore so to speak, the league has to take on the onus of protecting the players. If they slapped Marchand with a 30 game suspension I guarantee you he changes his game and so do the rest of the rats. If baseball players are suspended for like 80 games for trying to gain an advantage then hockey players should be suspended for similar for crossing a line that can end another players career.

Actually the Kadri vicious hit sort of sums the modern game up pretty well. He was already previously frustrated with how the calls were going. He then sees his team mate get roughed up by two opposing players (one who he was already previously battling with). In the old days with enforcers he goes over and grabs Wingels and they drop the gloves (this still happens occasionally but not nearly enough), message sent. Now a days, he lines up a very vulnerable Wingels and delivers a potential Matt Cooke career ending hit. Gets 3 games and jumps right back into the series. Make these guys learn the hard way, because it's most likely only going to get worse.

There was quite a few late/high hits on Marner in game 1 (it has continued through games 2 & 3) before the Kadri hit, if the refs call these illegal plays, Kadri doesn’t make an incredibly stupid hit. The onus falls on the refs, I’m not defending Kadri, it was a stupid hit, but all he saw all game was his line mate getting hit up high with no calls from the refs, guess he had to send a message another way.

Kadri was dumb and rightfully suspended on a play that wouldn’t have happened had the refs done their f***ing job.

 

[HockeyGuruPitka]

I completely agree. I do actually think the NHL adopting a form of the yellow/red card system can assist with these dirty yet not suspend-able plays. If a play is deemed review-able by player safety but no suspension is given, then a warning or "yellow card" needs to be given. If said player crosses the line a second time with a borderline suspend-able play, an automatic game suspension is incurred. Seeing guys get speared below the belt doesn't look good on the league, and the league 100% knows of this incident happening just chose to do nothing.

 

[TheSituation]

The refs just need to call penalties. It's honestly that easy. It's amazing that hits from behind are suddenly good hockey plays in the playoffs. If you watch your buddy get driven head first into the boards from the numbers without a call you're going to not care about taking a couple extra strides, or jumping for your next hit. Everything just escalates.

Bingo. If the refs did their jobs and called penalties. A 5 minute major will straighten up a player pretty quickly.

 

[Bumpus]

This was the longest ‘I do not like Marchand’ essay I’ve ever seen on the internetz.

And in answer to your question, if there was one, no. It isn’t.

Nice avatar.

 

[TheOtherOne]

Fighting won’t solve anything because fights in today’s NHL are between each team’s resident meathead. That solves nothing.

For instance, your team’s star player get run or nut shot by the other team’s rat. Your team’s meathead challenges the rat to fight but he won’t because he’s a rat. So your team’s meathead instead challenges the other team’s meathead to fight. Solves nothing.

What actually happens is that teams get away with targeting players on the other team and they frustrated and start taking runs and vicious slashes back and the issue compounds throughout the game and the series. The refs don’t nip the bull**** in the bud right from the get go and it just grows out of control from there.

Forearm shivers to the head, cup checks, two handed slashes, slewfoots, sucker punches, cross checks to the head and neck, etc aren’t hockey plays and should be cracked down on. Guys are tired of trying to play hockey and instead getting mauled and cheap shotted all over the ice.

Fights as "punishment" have always been a stupid concept. A player who crosses a line should be punished solely by the refs. Enforcer based punishment is bullshit. Chances are the enforcer didn't even see that he's punishing a good clean legal hockey hit.

Fighting SHOULD arise as a natural aggression outlet and mood booster in an aggressive and emotional series. No staged one on ones. Just players spontaneously getting too pissed to contain themselves. That's when you know you're watching a good exciting game.

 

[BBB24]

you proved his point. This was after various dirty plays by boston incl. the rat that WERE NOT called.

You may be right but the refs, DOPS and many others disagree with you. I still chuckle at people thinking McAvoy slew footed Hyman, he never touched his feet, watch the replay. That fact alone shows you are just talking out your backside.

 

[bb_fan]

Agreed. The Bruins have really upped their game this postseason in terms of slewfoots, butt-ends, slashes, dives etc.

Even Obama is laughing at that one.......

 

[Bingo71]

Fights as "punishment" have always been a stupid concept. A player who crosses a line should be punished solely by the refs. Enforcer based punishment is bull****. Chances are the enforcer didn't even see that he's punishing a good clean legal hockey hit.

Fighting SHOULD arise as a natural aggression outlet and mood booster in an aggressive and emotional series. No staged one on ones. Just players spontaneously getting too pissed to contain themselves. That's when you know you're watching a good exciting game.

But the reason they are getting pissed is because of all the garbage they have to put up with all game and all series. Stuff that shouldn’t be allowed to happen. Stuff that has nothing to do with a hockey play.

There’s going to be frustration. There’s going to be animosity. But getting to the point where guys are flat out running guys with intent to injure is ridiculous.

But like I’ve said, the NHL talks out of one side of its mouth, claiming it’s serious about protecting players and cracking down on head shots and out the other it is allowing garbage plays to take place all over the ice and things are getting ramped up to levels where there is a potential for serious injury.

 

[robertmac43]

I was about to come in here and say it looked like a bad tackles in FIFA, 100p agree. That is how you break someone's ankle right there!

 

[YEM]

Players wouldn't take these gutless liberties if they knew someone would be hunting them if they tried it.

this statement hasn't been really true for a couple of decades now

 

[SenzZen]

Doughty threw that hit with the intentions of hurting Carrier, rather than making a "hockey play" to separate man from puck. I believe he meant to go through the body rather than pick his head like he did, but when you're amped up and determined to put all you have into the hit, you throw it with less control- hence being unable to make sure he hit the guy squarely. Carrier was in Doughty's head, and Drew thought he'd exorcise him in that instance. Didn't work.

I really don't think there have been many more "dirty plays" than there have always been come playoff time. The intensity escalates as the stakes are higher, and the teams more familiar. I still remember Tie Domi on top of Shaun Van Allen- who was playing with a broken jaw- trying to get his hand under Van Allen's cage to pull at his jaw. Shayne Corson following Alexei Yashin around the rink with his stick pitchforked between Yashin's legs and the refs ignored it.

The notion that the refs "let the players figure it out" by swallowing their whistles is beyond ridiculous. If they really wanted to allow the players to decide the games, they'd call it by the book. But they don't, so they won't.

 

[HockeyMomx2]

Y'all are entertaining that's for sure. Thanks for my morning chuckle

 

[MyBudJT]

Is there a colesnotes version of the OP?

 

[3rdLiner]

Ignore the guy that threw a dirty a cheapshot caused a concussion and got suspended. Look over here at this!

 

[HomeAndHome]

Dirty stuff in the NHL has always been there and always will because it is a contact sport that allows fighting.

Doughty deserved his suspension.
Kadri more than deserved his.
Marchand hasn't done anything egregious these playoffs.
Last night was a missed call on the cross check on Staal.
Subban's was a 2 min penalty at most.
I wish the NHL suspended people for nut taps, but they don't and that's the way it is.
Etc.

What is the end goal you are looking for? Just seems like you want to spew Marchand hate with the "Marchand Syndrome" comment or argue Doughty's suspension. If all you're looking for is to cut down on nut shots and missed calls by the refs, O.K. good I'm with you, but the non-hockey play has always been there in the playoffs and I don't think it's leaving.

 

[powerstuck]

Hey...look another of the ''Let's all hold hands and collectively hate the Bruins, especially Brad Marchand'' thread.

We appreciate the attention but it isn't necessary.

 

[3rdLiner]

Basically HF board threads for the last year...

 

[Pikesburgh]

Every year there's cheapshots. This year is no different than the last. It's why hockey is the greatest sport. They play harder than just about any sport. But it will get worse if they completely eliminate fighting. There's already guys who do cheap crap left and right and are no longer worried about getting mugged, because they can hide behind the ref.

Get rid of the instigator penalty and there will be a lot less cheap shots.

 

[middletoe]

I agree with the title, actually. I feel like there have been a high number of dirty plays in these playoffs, especially at the start.

That said, OP lost me with citing the Marchand play of all things. A player falling into another is what you want to base your argument on? There have been cross-checks to the heads, a horrible boarding of a defenceless player, predatory hits to the head, etc.... and you are bringing up a player awkwardly falling into another as a primary example? Odd choice.

Didn’t see the Marchand play yet, but I will say that Marchand might be the best I’ve ever seen at doing things accidentally on purpose. The guy is an artist.

As far as cheap shots go the officials are letting it go on purpose. Can only speculate as to why but it’s definitely intentional. For all I know maybe it’s just another way of Mr. Bettman and company creating parity.

 

[The Hockey Tonk Man]

you guys kill me...I think a better thread would be, "These playoffs have involved the most crying by the fans in a long time"

Sit back, enjoy the games, frig man.