Online Series: The Wheel of Time (Prime Video, Nov 22)
- Thread starter RandV
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Eye of Ra
Grandmaster General of the International boards
Eye of Ra
Grandmaster General of the International boards
and it looks like first 3 episodes will all be released at nov 19.
the whole season is 8 episodes in total. which is good news. few episodes often means better quality.
the whole season is 8 episodes in total. which is good news. few episodes often means better quality.
RandV
It's a wolf v2.0
Yep almost there! And I've been putting up the teasers but the official trailer came out two weeks ago as well, which is a bit more coherent than a bunch of flashing images to music:
dukeofjive
Registered User
The Crypto Guy
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- Jun 26, 2017
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First 3 eps are getting very strong reviews. I'm excited to start watching this..
Sooo,
I started reading this series back in the 90’s when the local Librarian gave me the recommendation. Although I have a wide range of interests, at the time I wanted something to fill in the gap between Piers Anthony and Tolkien. L.E. Modessitt’s Saga of Recluce just wasn’t deep enough for me (at the time).
Enter Robert Jordan (James Rigney). I believe The Dragon Reborn had just hit the Library shelf.
I write this only as a means to express how much I enjoyed & respect the Series.
I agree that there was a serious lull in the pacing of the series between Book 6 and 11. I’ve re-read the entire series 3 times and found myself skipping over many pages in those books after my first time through.
Count me in on those who appreciate the work that Brandon Sanderson did with the final 3 books. As far as I’m concerned, he is like Mariano Rivera - A great closer.
As for the Amazon Series we’re talking about, I’m going to give it a fair amount of latitude. I expect going in that there will be deviations and likely characters left out.
I’m excited to watch it with my teenage Ginger, who has followed me in my love of books and this series.
I plan to just sit back and enjoy the show, hoping that the Producers and Directors loved the Books as I do & demonstrate this by their work.
Looking forward to discussing this with you folks soon.
I started reading this series back in the 90’s when the local Librarian gave me the recommendation. Although I have a wide range of interests, at the time I wanted something to fill in the gap between Piers Anthony and Tolkien. L.E. Modessitt’s Saga of Recluce just wasn’t deep enough for me (at the time).
Enter Robert Jordan (James Rigney). I believe The Dragon Reborn had just hit the Library shelf.
I write this only as a means to express how much I enjoyed & respect the Series.
I agree that there was a serious lull in the pacing of the series between Book 6 and 11. I’ve re-read the entire series 3 times and found myself skipping over many pages in those books after my first time through.
Count me in on those who appreciate the work that Brandon Sanderson did with the final 3 books. As far as I’m concerned, he is like Mariano Rivera - A great closer.
As for the Amazon Series we’re talking about, I’m going to give it a fair amount of latitude. I expect going in that there will be deviations and likely characters left out.
I’m excited to watch it with my teenage Ginger, who has followed me in my love of books and this series.
I plan to just sit back and enjoy the show, hoping that the Producers and Directors loved the Books as I do & demonstrate this by their work.
Looking forward to discussing this with you folks soon.
Bounces R Way
Registered User
Thought it was just OK, my gf is really the big fantasy buff but I do love GoT and LoTR and a couple others. Read a couple of the books but they never really did it for me either. Preferred The Kingkiller Chronicle by Patrick Rothfuss.
Found some of the magic stuff to be overly corny, but some was also well done. Liked the casting and performances for the most part, the settings were rich if not a bit Skyrim-esque, the 1st episode was a mess with way too much happening but it seems to have settled into a more comfortable story arc for 2 & 3.
Found some of the magic stuff to be overly corny, but some was also well done. Liked the casting and performances for the most part, the settings were rich if not a bit Skyrim-esque, the 1st episode was a mess with way too much happening but it seems to have settled into a more comfortable story arc for 2 & 3.
NyQuil
Big F$&*in Q
Actually not bad - I think the casting was quite well done (particularly Thom, Moiraine and Lan) and the pacing was surprisingly decent.
Now we just have to deal with Mat being a douche for awhile.
Now we just have to deal with Mat being a douche for awhile.
I only watched the first episode. There's some good stuff there but man I could not get over the shaky cam in the action sequences. There was no real good reason for it either, the action scenes were clearly pumped with a lot of money and the production value was there (though the CGI of Moiraine's light powers or whatever felt just a touch like it was CW quality. Though it's made up for with solid fire effects and the effects for large hurtling projectiles (to not be too spoilery)).
I'm just over shaky cam in general. In some shows/movies it's clearly used to account for a lack of budget for action choreography but here that's clearly not the issue so it can only be a device used to convey chaos and that's such a dumb filmmaking choice. The attack in the first episode was plenty chaotic without the need to have the camera go spastic.
I'm just over shaky cam in general. In some shows/movies it's clearly used to account for a lack of budget for action choreography but here that's clearly not the issue so it can only be a device used to convey chaos and that's such a dumb filmmaking choice. The attack in the first episode was plenty chaotic without the need to have the camera go spastic.
Perennial
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Game Of Thrones became so popular because it offered viewers more than just an epic fantasy...
The characters, dialogue, and performances by the actors were just as compelling as the story line itself
NyQuil
Big F$&*in Q
Yeah, I find the comparison a bit odd.
A Song of Ice and Fire was revelatory among fans of the fantasy literature genre because it wasn't quite like anything else in terms of the family intrigue and drama, not to mention the lack of plot armor early on for many major characters.
I find it hard to believe that Wheel of Time can fill that void - it has a lot more in common with Lord of the Rings than Game of Thrones.
Perennial
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NyQuil
Big F$&*in Q
I'm speaking more from my knowledge of the entire series of books, in terms of a fundamental and world-spanning struggle between Good and Evil.
The Witcher was more of a political and personal dark fantasy that has more in common with GoT IMO, with grey or morally ambiguous characters whose motivations are not always apparent.
Perennial
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Yeah, I wasn't being dismissive of your Lord Of The Rings comparison... it's a fair comparison
The Witcher is just the most recent fantasy television show that I'm aware of, which is why I thought of it
RandV
It's a wolf v2.0
I know they're far from the same thing as well as anyone, rather what I'm getting at is WoT is an apple and ASoIF is an orange but the question is viewers loved their orange and you could feed them another one but can 'fruit' work on television.
Where they could roughly be considered 'the same' is that in terms of big influential fantasy series in chronological order it goes Lord of the Rings -> Wheel of Time -> A Song of Ice and Fire. Tolkien introduced us to epic fantasy with a hero's journey against a big bad. Jordan took the base template and brought it to a far grander scale with a lot more colour. Martin took the scale and scope but dropped the black & white hero's journey and made everything a more realistic shade of grey with decisions having consequences.
None of these setups are inherently 'better' than the other, the problem is more that when Tolkien black & white hero's journey keeps getting repeated over and over again it gets scale, and Martin's shades of grey is a refreshing change of pace. But if everyone starts copying GRRM then it can just as easily become tiresome grimdark.
Just to ramble on a little more, I like to think if there's a 4th/next big influential series it's Brandon Sanderson's Stormlight Archive. These are my own thoughts, but with what I'm talking about above what I love with Sanderson here is I think he finds a nice middle ground where he drops the black & white and the hero's can go to some dark places, but in the end they don't get their heads chopped off but rather are triumphant, in some inspirational fashion. Or how I like to look at it now, using OT Star Wars if Martin is Dark Vader chopping freezing Han in carbonite and chopping off Luke's hand, then Sanderson is Anakin Skywalkers redemption, that solemn gaze as Palpatine is killing his son and then stepping forth to save him.
NyQuil
Big F$&*in Q
I'd also argue that Stormlight Archive has more in common with the other two series than it does with Game of Thrones, but the characters tend to be more accessible and likeable than LoTR and WoT whereby their thoughts and speech mannerisms tend to be more informal and more consistent with the present day.
I've read pretty much all of Sanderson's work, and while Stormlight Archive is likely his magnum opus, and is an exhibition in world building and magic system crafting, it's still consistent with his other works including the Mistborn books that are relatively easy reads. As far as a challenge level, obviously they are large books but I think they could be easily read by young adults. I'm not trying to be critical, it's just more emblematic of his style and a big reason why he is popular IMO: his stories are "fun". He's sort of like the Joss Whedon of fantasy (before all the controversies).
I'm very impressed with the fact that he did manage to conclude Jordan's series in a manner that was really consistent with Robert's style, rather than his own, which takes a lot of discipline and respect for the original material IMO. It's like the opposite of what happened with Benioff and Weiss.
Meanwhile, Game of Thrones deliberately under-emphasized the fantastical elements, focusing more on a gritty, medieval drama with female characters largely constrained by historical limitations, no outright wizards, few references to other humanoid races of any kind, and with the White Walkers, dragons and some of the religious elements largely occupying that niche alone. Characters are rarely flippant (aside from Tyrion) and their interactions have that formal edge to them in keeping with their station.
Speaking for Mrs_NyQuil, who is not a reader of fantasy, she enjoyed GoT precisely because of the intrigue, backstabbing and family drama, and was less inspired by the fantastical elements which ramp up as the seasons go on. I think a big reason behind its universal success is that while it is inherently a fantasy work, those traditional elements take a backseat for the most part to a soap opera on a grand scale, which appeals to a wider audience.
Personally I think the biggest supporters of Wheel of Time will end up being Robert Jordan readers who enjoy seeing the visuals of what they may have imagined all along and can fill in the gaps in the storytelling with their own knowledge of the book series.
Whereas, with GoT, there may well be more fans of the HBO show out there than of the books themselves, which is quite the accomplishment for any converted fantasy series.
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NyQuil
Big F$&*in Q
A lot of the early reviews of WoT, particularly by female reviewers, are focusing on the advantage of women in terms of wielding the One Power and the associated authority and strength that it gives them over men.
That aspect is obviously very timely and buzz-generating in our current circumstances, but does not necessarily hold up over time.
Book spoiler:
That aspect is obviously very timely and buzz-generating in our current circumstances, but does not necessarily hold up over time.
Book spoiler:
I wonder what they'll think when three separate attractive women decide to equally share a major male character among them in the most author surrogate wish fulfillment harem moment ever.
I suspect that a lot of the changes that will be made converting it to the screen might undo some of the more gratuitous aspects of the series. The fact that there are four Ta'veren (including Egwene) instead of three is emblematic of that.
I suspect that a lot of the changes that will be made converting it to the screen might undo some of the more gratuitous aspects of the series. The fact that there are four Ta'veren (including Egwene) instead of three is emblematic of that.
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I think there's also a certain appeal for how it feels like an homage to real history. Westeros and Essos feel like a country that could have easily existed if magic and dragons had as well.
Having no background or knowledge of the Wheel of Time but allowing myself to make the comparison as I was watching to see how it stacks up to Thrones, that's what I thought of the most.
I agree with Nyquil's post that this feels a lot more like LOTR than GOT. That doesn't have to be a bad thing but it just depends on execution. This, so far seems to be a notch above the Witcher but I'm not sold on it being a standout yet.
Got through the first three too. I'm enjoying it but I don't think it's on GoT's level. Differences in subject material aside, it's just missing something to truly make it special. There are some strong writing moments, the actors are doing a capable to strong job, the production is clearly polished better than shows like, to use a recent example, The Witcher.
I don't know even when things were slow in GoT S1 there was still wall to wall strong performances, memorable lines, burgeoning intrigue...the first three episodes of WoT feel like a different take on the Hobbits leaving the Shire. It's the main characters on the run from danger until they find safe haven and not much else. It's not that that's not entertaining but especially for viewers with no familiarity of the source material, there's no sense of what the wider implications and circumstance of the narrative world. I guess as I'm typing, I realize a big issue is that there hasn't been enough emphasis on effective world building.
I don't know even when things were slow in GoT S1 there was still wall to wall strong performances, memorable lines, burgeoning intrigue...the first three episodes of WoT feel like a different take on the Hobbits leaving the Shire. It's the main characters on the run from danger until they find safe haven and not much else. It's not that that's not entertaining but especially for viewers with no familiarity of the source material, there's no sense of what the wider implications and circumstance of the narrative world. I guess as I'm typing, I realize a big issue is that there hasn't been enough emphasis on effective world building.
RandV
It's a wolf v2.0
That's a big challenge bringing this here to a broader audience. With Game of Thrones, it's almost like GRRM wrote ASoIF with TV in mind as the first episode ending with Jamie shoving Bran out the window is a perfect TV drama hook to draw viewers in, and each episode in the first season continues like that. From a broader series perspective with Wheel of Time I'd say Jordan did a far better job of 'world building' than Martin, but it takes a far greater time investment to start seeing it. That's just fine for anyone who can sit down and read through The Lord of the Rings, but much more challenging for the shorter attention span of the general TV watching audience.
You would never expect any new fantasy series to capture the audience like Game of Thrones did, but for fans of the genre just have to hope there's enough interest overall to make them viable to produce. Which for the most part prior to GoT they weren't.
Well it's entertaining enough on its own merit. I'd say the arc of the first three episodes is sufficiently engaging and entertaining enough, and as I said, well polished. And at its core it's not a difficult arc to follow. It's the Hobbits leaving the Shire but instead of evading danger because they're transporting the One Ring, they're evading danger because one of them is the Jesus of this world but they just don't know which of the four it is.
I think there's enough there to draw viewership, but I think it needs to pick up to blow up and be worth Amazon investing in continuing.
Just as another Amazon example, they picked up The Expanse which for my money is one of the best sci-fi shows ever. But in spite of continuing the show in strong fashion, it's really not a show that's blown up with wide appeal. I don't know if limited viewership was the cause but they're capping off the series before the end of the books with a sixth season. WoT really needs to find that something special to justify its cost of production.
RandV
It's a wolf v2.0
That's good to hear. To be clear I haven't started watching yet, price watching an item on amazon before getting Prime again so watching Cowboy Bebop first, and I read these books back in the late 90's so forget exactly the details of what all went down in the first book. But for a bit of optimism towards being "something special", Amazon immediately greenlit season 2 after season 1 wrapped and that is currently filming, and with the series now launched I think I saw somewhere that they just greenlit season 3. So they're obviously confident in the end product.
I'll also add that while I don't know much about the lead show writer Rafe Judkins, but he's got good people in his corner with the series understudy/final author Brandon Sanderson and Robert Jordan's widow Harriet McDougal. Jordan literally married his editor, McDougal is a seasoned pro at Tor publishing and is the mother of the series (and now primary legal rights holder) having been it's editor from day 1. Those are good hands for the property to be in.
I dunno, we'll have to wait and see.
I know for me personally, It actually took me 2 attempts to really get into Game of Thrones. The first time through I found it too slow and not enough meat to the episodes, and by the 6th episode of Season 1 I had lost all interest and gave up. Then, honestly probably close to 3 years later at that point, after a number of my friends had repeatedly talked about how ridiculously good it was(Around the time of when Season 5 was just starting), I gave it another attempt from the beginning and paid more close attention to it. I still wasn't fully hooked until the Season 1 finale. The way Ned was killed was so shocking and for him to have been essentially the main character of season 1 and to be killed so mercilessly. That was the shocking moment that hooked me and then I proceeded to binge basically the entirety of the first 5 seasons to catch up to the live episode releases, and watched Seasons 6-8 every Sunday night as they released after that.
My point being, yeah the first 3 episodes dont really feel like there's that big moment that draws you in or really reveals what's at stake... I think it still feels like its doing a good job at setting a tone for a build up to something that could be very good, without knowing anything about the books and what's to come.
It's probably not as good as GoT, I'm not sure that anything could be as good as what GoT Seasons 1-6 were. But I feel like it has the potential to still be great.
I know for me personally, It actually took me 2 attempts to really get into Game of Thrones. The first time through I found it too slow and not enough meat to the episodes, and by the 6th episode of Season 1 I had lost all interest and gave up. Then, honestly probably close to 3 years later at that point, after a number of my friends had repeatedly talked about how ridiculously good it was(Around the time of when Season 5 was just starting), I gave it another attempt from the beginning and paid more close attention to it. I still wasn't fully hooked until the Season 1 finale. The way Ned was killed was so shocking and for him to have been essentially the main character of season 1 and to be killed so mercilessly. That was the shocking moment that hooked me and then I proceeded to binge basically the entirety of the first 5 seasons to catch up to the live episode releases, and watched Seasons 6-8 every Sunday night as they released after that.
My point being, yeah the first 3 episodes dont really feel like there's that big moment that draws you in or really reveals what's at stake... I think it still feels like its doing a good job at setting a tone for a build up to something that could be very good, without knowing anything about the books and what's to come.
It's probably not as good as GoT, I'm not sure that anything could be as good as what GoT Seasons 1-6 were. But I feel like it has the potential to still be great.
