Online Series: The Wheel of Time (Prime Video, Nov 22)

[RandV]

Trailers out, so time to get this thread going!

Click to read more...

 

[RandV]

After Game of Thrones made it big on HBO I think this is the biggest followup test whether epic fantasy can work on live action TV. The Wheel of Time series, written by Robert Jordan with the first book published in 1990, then after he passed away in 2005 he passed away the final 3 books (12-14) finished by Brandon Sanderson, is one of the longest fantasy series out there, in terms of a continuous start to finish story probably the longest. Like Lord of the Rings decades early it is probably the most influential series in inspiring new writers over the past 30 years. While it starts of intentionally imitating Lord of the Rings it sets off down its own path and in addition to the story and cast of characters probably most notable for its amazing world building.

Now the annoying part, the main characters name and my own is merely coincidentl. I was a Rand before I ever heard of Rand al'Thor.

 

[Jussi]

I don't know anything about the books but I watched one reaction video (The MovieCouple) whe the guy I guess has read all the books and he did not recognize some of the scenes in the trailer. So I guess there will deviations. But if I understood correctly, unlike with GoT, there's a whole bunch of these books out already, so there isn't as much need to improvise. I'll just post the video, they go in-depth into it after the trailer:

 

[Osprey]

It looks really fake to me. Even some of the nature scenes appear to be CGIed. I wondered if that was due to the pandemic, but I'm reading that they filmed about 85% of it before the shutdown. One of the things that I appreciated about Game of Thrones is that it used real locations and sets as much as possible. For example, the sequence in Hardhome took a month to film in a Northern Ireland quarry. This appears to be mostly made on stages and computers. Of course, so is The Mandalorian, but this looks less convincing to me. Hopefully, it doesn't end up bothering me when it airs.

 

[RandV]

I don't know anything about the books but I watched one reaction video (The MovieCouple) whe the guy I guess has read all the books and he did not recognize some of the scenes in the trailer. So I guess there will deviations. But if I understood correctly, unlike with GoT, there's a whole bunch of these books out already, so there isn't as much need to improvise. I'll just post the video, they go in-depth into it after the trailer:

It will need to be heavily adapted. The series has the same sort of flaw as George R.R. Martin had with mid series scope creep, though with Jordan he never loses the plot but only the pace as what begins here as a party of 7 ends up being about a dozen different character POV's each having their own story lines happening simultaneously. Things are kept together well through the first 5 books but 6-11 slows to a crawl and would not translate well to TV. But the positive news here is like you said yes it is a finished series so they can plan the adaption from the start, not like GoT which follows the books pretty closely through the first few seasons then D&D have to figure out how to clean up and end GRRM's mess leading to a massive drop in story quality.

 

[RandV]

It looks really fake. Even the nature scenes appear to be CGI. I wondered if that was due to the pandemic, but I'm reading that they filmed about 85% of it before the shutdown. One of the things that I appreciated about Game of Thrones is that it used real locations and sets as much as possible. For example, the sequence in Hardhome took a month to film in a Northern Ireland quarry. This appears to be mostly made on stages and computers. Of course, so is The Mandalorian, but this looks less convincing to me. Hopefully, it doesn't end up bothering me when it airs.

There will need to be a lot of CGI, like you need a big city with a giant white tower in the middle and a massive mountain in the background, but otherwise the 'nature' scenes aren't CGI. I believe they did most of the filming in the Czech Republic, some in Croatia, and perhaps elsewhere in Eastern Europe.

Example:

 

[Prairie Habs]

I haven't really been paying attention to any of the news or leaks around this show as I've read the series through a couple times and I know I'll watch it regardless. From what I have seen though, it appears they are trying to make Moiraine (Rosamund Pike) more into the main character than she is in the books. The first book is very much Jordan's take on LOTR and Moiraine is pretty much a 1 to 1 analogue for Gandalf, so it would be weird to see her in the main role of the Frodo analogue. It might just be that she is the biggest name though, but I could also see reasons they might want Moiraine to take a larger role at the start of the series.

I thought the trailer looked pretty good, but also pretty vague for what is actually happening. I don't have any problems with them taking liberty in changing things for the show. Adapting the first book faithfully wouldn't be too bad, but changes absolutely need to be made for the later books, so they might as well start them early to accommodate later changes they have planned.

 

[Osprey]

There will need to be a lot of CGI, like you need a big city with a giant white tower in the middle and a massive mountain in the background, but otherwise the 'nature' scenes aren't CGI. I believe they did most of the filming in the Czech Republic, some in Croatia, and perhaps elsewhere in Eastern Europe.

Example:

I understand that there needs to be a lot of CGI and post-processing for a show like this. GoT needed a lot, too, but I'd say that the majority of that show was simply good locations, sets and props. It turns me off a little that nearly every scene in that trailer looks heavily post processed, even scenes that shouldn't need it. Some of the production stills do seem encouraging and maybe the show will include a lot of "practical" filmmaking that wasn't "exciting" enough to put in the trailer. We'll see.

 

[Tawnos]

I haven't really been paying attention to any of the news or leaks around this show as I've read the series through a couple times and I know I'll watch it regardless. From what I have seen though, it appears they are trying to make Moiraine (Rosamund Pike) more into the main character than she is in the books. The first book is very much Jordan's take on LOTR and Moiraine is pretty much a 1 to 1 analogue for Gandalf, so it would be weird to see her in the main role of the Frodo analogue. It might just be that she is the biggest name though, but I could also see reasons they might want Moiraine to take a larger role at the start of the series.

I thought the trailer looked pretty good, but also pretty vague for what is actually happening. I don't have any problems with them taking liberty in changing things for the show. Adapting the first book faithfully wouldn't be too bad, but changes absolutely need to be made for the later books, so they might as well start them early to accommodate later changes they have planned.

What's happening in Tar Valon is clearly going to take a bigger role early in the show than it does early in the books. I know there's a prequel involving Moiraine (that I haven't read) so it's possible they're using it to inform some early series events. Also, there are a couple of characters that we're introduced to in the first few books that aren't essential for the plot of those, but become essential characters later aren't listed in the cast. One of the main people working on it say those characters aren't just eliminated, but will be introduced in other seasons. Granted, I've only read 2 and a half of the books, so my understanding of that is based on what friends who have read more have told me.

 

[RandV]

What's happening in Tar Valon is clearly going to take a bigger role early in the show than it does early in the books. I know there's a prequel involving Moiraine (that I haven't read) so it's possible they're using it to inform some early series events. Also, there are a couple of characters that we're introduced to in the first few books that aren't essential for the plot of those, but become essential characters later aren't listed in the cast. One of the main people working on it say those characters aren't just eliminated, but will be introduced in other seasons. Granted, I've only read 2 and a half of the books, so my understanding of that is based on what friends who have read more have told me.

From what I understand they may be given Logain, one of the 'false dragons' that only briefly appears/is mentioned in the first book, a much bigger role in the show. And yes the main obvious major character missing from the current cast list will, but what I'm really curious to see is I'm 50/50 as to whether they cut the Aiel and the Seanchen. From a Game of Thrones perspective this would be like writing out Dorne and the Iron Islands right from the start, except with a much bigger impact, but one that may be necessary.

 

[MadDevil]

It almost makes me want to go back and re-read the books again, but it's such a massive series and I don't have nearly the time to read I did the first time I read them through (I didn't start reading the series until I think the 8th or 9th book came out).

 

[Jussi]

So the book series has been finished?

 

[Tawnos]

So the book series has been finished?

Yes. The original author also died before it was and it was taken up by a different, well-known fantasy author. I’ve heard those described as “competent”

 

[Prairie Habs]

It almost makes me want to go back and re-read the books again, but it's such a massive series and I don't have nearly the time to read I did the first time I read them through (I didn't start reading the series until I think the 8th or 9th book came out).

The audiobooks are a godsend. Well voiced and you can sort of tune out when you know you are about to get a "smooths skirt", "folds arms over breasts" type sequence that Jordan all too often would fall into.

So the book series has been finished?

Yes. The original author also died before it was and it was taken up by a different, well-known fantasy author. I’ve heard those described as “competent”

They are finished and the replacement author did a fantastic job. The series is great for the first 5 or 6 books, then we get in to what the fans refer to as "the slog" from about books 7 to 10. Jordan then wrote one more solid book with book 11, and then Sanderson comes in and really does a great job to close it out.

If you're considering reading it I would say its still worth it, even with the slog, but its completely understandable if that would turn someone off to them. Like I said above, the audiobooks are great for powering through some of the slower books.

 

[Jussi]

I just found out that Peter Franzen (Harald Finehair in Vikings) is in this. Not rushing to the marketplace yet.

 

[beowulf]

The audiobooks are a godsend. Well voiced and you can sort of tune out when you know you are about to get a "smooths skirt", "folds arms over breasts" type sequence that Jordan all too often would fall into.





They are finished and the replacement author did a fantastic job. The series is great for the first 5 or 6 books, then we get in to what the fans refer to as "the slog" from about books 7 to 10. Jordan then wrote one more solid book with book 11, and then Sanderson comes in and really does a great job to close it out.

If you're considering reading it I would say its still worth it, even with the slog, but its completely understandable if that would turn someone off to them. Like I said above, the audiobooks are great for powering through some of the slower books.

Sanderson basically completed the book(s) if I understand it correctly. Since Jordan knew his time was short he prepared outlines that where pretty detailed as to how he wanted the series to end and originally it was going to be one final book but when he passed before being done writing his wife picked Sanderson and the Tor decided to split the book into 3 so Sanderson expanded what Jordan had done to that point.

 

[montreal]

I read some of the books when I was in college a long time ago, I don't remember how far I got, book 7 maybe. I watched the trailer and was like wtf? I don't remember any of this. When I heard they finished the books I thought I might one day go back and read them all but it will be very tough to find the time.

 

[RandV]

Sanderson basically completed the book(s) if I understand it correctly. Since Jordan knew his time was short he prepared outlines that where pretty detailed as to how he wanted the series to end and originally it was going to be one final book but when he passed before being done writing his wife picked Sanderson and the Tor decided to split the book into 3 so Sanderson expanded what Jordan had done to that point.

From what I recall Jordan thought he had one book left to write and Sanderson got those notes... and said no way could he do all that in one book. Sanderson is an author who's very good at plotting and pacing his books for length, where Jordan was a bit more like GRRM and not so much. A nice little touch to it though is that Jordan did right the final chapter, so while he couldn't finish his series he at least put the end cap on it.

On the show I'm also in the camp that it was so long ago that I read most of these books that I'm going to have a hard time remembering the earlier stuff. That's kind of a good thing though as it will keep it fresh, unlike with HBO's Game of Thrones where I had just gotten into the series a few years prior.

 

[NyQuil]

I’ve skimmed the first five books or so more recently but didn’t have the constitution to get through the slog all the way to the end.

Sanderson ended it very well though.

 

[beowulf]

From what I recall Jordan thought he had one book left to write and Sanderson got those notes... and said no way could he do all that in one book. Sanderson is an author who's very good at plotting and pacing his books for length, where Jordan was a bit more like GRRM and not so much. A nice little touch to it though is that Jordan did right the final chapter, so while he couldn't finish his series he at least put the end cap on it.

On the show I'm also in the camp that it was so long ago that I read most of these books that I'm going to have a hard time remembering the earlier stuff. That's kind of a good thing though as it will keep it fresh, unlike with HBO's Game of Thrones where I had just gotten into the series a few years prior.

From Wiki so take it for what it's worth but seems Tor is the one that decided to split it as Sanderson's recommendation. He estimated it would lead to about an 800,000 word novel which would have been a new record as right now the Lord of the Rings is at the top with almost 560,000 words followed by King's Uncut version of the Stand at about 515,ooo.

With Jordan's death on September 16, 2007, the conclusion of the series was in question. On December 7 of that year the publisher Tor Books announced that fantasy author Brandon Sanderson was to finish A Memory of Light.[36] Sanderson, a longtime fan of the series,[37] was chosen by Jordan's widow Harriet McDougal partly because she liked Sanderson's novels and partly because of a eulogy he had written for Jordan.[38][39]
On March 30, 2009, Tor Books announced that A Memory of Light would be split into three volumes, with Brandon Sanderson citing timing and continuity reasons. By his estimate in early 2009, the book would have taken several years to write and would have reached 800,000 words. McDougal doubted that Jordan could have concluded it in a single volume.[40][41][42] The three volumes were published from 2009 to 2013, as The Gathering Storm, Towers of Midnight, and A Memory of Light, with the last book using Jordan's title.[43]

 

[Prairie Habs]

'The Wheel of Time' Recasts Mat Cauthon Role for Season 2 of Amazon Series

Sounds like Mat is being re-cast for season 2. Not entirely sure what to make of that.

 

[RandV]

'The Wheel of Time' Recasts Mat Cauthon Role for Season 2 of Amazon Series

Sounds like Mat is being re-cast for season 2. Not entirely sure what to make of that.

Huh that's something. You got used to minor characters getting recast in Game of Thrones but this is a main character and right from the start. The guy seemed like a good fit to play Mat, but I guess if it wasn't going to work and this is hopefully a long series then it's good to get it out of the way now.

I remember seeing this on social media a while back and the actor playing Mat is noticeably absent from these "Edmonds Field Five" pics:

 

[Make]

Huge fan of the books. I just finished a re-read a month ago and loved it just as much as I did the first time.

Trailer looks interesting to me. Definitely feels a lot more "real" now that I've got some glimpses of what's to come. The series is so massive that I don't expect the tv show to be an exact replica of it but I do hope most of the important themes and arcs are preserved. I'll try to keep an open mind and not get too nitpicky about possible changes. Somehow I feel like the WoT world is far more forgiving to creative writing than GoT was. I actually feel like the show can improve on some parts of the books.

One thing I'm nervous/hesitant about is how the "magical" elements are used on film. I've always felt that's one aspect that makes WoT a bit more difficult to film than GoT was. Could be a hit or miss kind of thing for overall popularity of the show.

 

[Jussi]

I hope Peter Franzen can pull off as fine a performance as Laura Birn has done on Foundation.

 

[RandV]

GQ has a lengthy behind the scenes article on the show: Inside Wheel of Time, Amazon’s Huge Gamble on the Next Game of Thrones

One little bit I loved was the practical solution to increase Trolloc crowd size:

But Dudman also needed a lot of Trollocs. “If you're making, say 20, how do you make it look as though you've created 40 or 50?” he asked. “And the answer is: They've all got horns. One of the things we decided early on is, they all have a variety of horn shapes. So if all those horns attach magnetically, and every single horn can swap with another horn on a different head, and they can also have two or three ways of putting them on, then you actually end up with 30 different silhouettes of creature for no extra money.”

In the end, Mike Weber told me, the Trollocs looked so good on camera that a whole tranche of their budget that had been slated for VFX, to make the monsters look real, was saved for something else. And this is how you make a show like The Wheel of Time.

Swappable magnetic horns, genius!