Online Series: The Wheel of Time (Prime Video, Nov 22)

RandV

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What was amazing about the last episode was they took a small sentence mentioned in the books, and expanded on it beautifully to show the absolute horror.
Anyone who says the show runner doesn’t understand the series has clearly missed all the hints, but this was an absolute masterpiece of writing.
I'm not sure if I recall people saying that on here but at least that part shouldn't have been in question. Unlike The Witcher which somehow got writers that didn't actually like the source material, I don't know much about TWoT show writers but as consultant producers attached to the show they have the late Robert Jordan's wife and series editor Harriet McDougal and the author she picked to finish the series Brandon Sanderson.

While there's a bunch of steps to go between having a script and putting it to film that can effect the final outcome, Sanderson is the best author in the fantasy genre right now so if he was happy with it I'm going to expect good things. Also normally I'd preface a 'best' statement with an 'in my opinion, but Sanderson is just a machine and the sheer quantity of quality material he puts out I don't see much of an argument.
 

IDvsEGO

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Oct 11, 2016
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I usually don't fall for ladies with a lot of dark makeup on but oh boy Selene I'm falling for her as much as Dragonboy is.



which line? this one?:

"I am a monster too" ---Selene
No.
In the books that sequence with the pitcher of water, is two lines long.
The show expanded on it to truly show how the seanchan are.
 

hotcabbagesoup

why u guys want Celebrini, he played like a weenie
Feb 18, 2009
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The way in which Fingernail guy's crew was offed was disappointing.

The way in which the fleet was offed was disappointing.

The way in which Ishamael went down was all-right but didn't feel well-earned.

When did the Dragon boy learn these instakills and Moiraine was never previously shown as having so much power as to make fire fly out of the ocean capable of destroying a whole fleet. Kinda wack.
 

Tawnos

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The way in which Fingernail guy's crew was offed was disappointing.

The way in which the fleet was offed was disappointing.

The way in which Ishamael went down was all-right but didn't feel well-earned.

When did the Dragon boy learn these instakills and Moiraine was never previously shown as having so much power as to make fire fly out of the ocean capable of destroying a whole fleet. Kinda wack.

The whole thing felt a little rushed, to be sure. This is an industry-wide problem though. If you’re going to make an 8-episode season, you can’t spend so much time on build up that it leaves you so little working room to tie it off. Most shows don’t do great with this.

That being said, the way Turok went out in The Great Hunt felt equally as silly, but Rand having some instaskills is part of being the Dragon Reborn.

I dont know if you’ve read the books or not, but this early in the series not too much is made of the 3 men (and in the show, the two women too) being ta’veren. It was mentioned in the first season early but hasn’t played any role in the show since. The pattern warps around those 5 and all 5 being in the same place at the same time makes all kinds of crazy shit possible. I include Moiraine’s power level in that moment as one of those things.
 

hotcabbagesoup

why u guys want Celebrini, he played like a weenie
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The whole thing felt a little rushed, to be sure. This is an industry-wide problem though. If you’re going to make an 8-episode season, you can’t spend so much time on build up that it leaves you so little working room to tie it off. Most shows don’t do great with this.

That being said, the way Turok went out in The Great Hunt felt equally as silly, but Rand having some instaskills is part of being the Dragon Reborn.

I dont know if you’ve read the books or not, but this early in the series not too much is made of the 3 men (and in the show, the two women too) being ta’veren. It was mentioned in the first season early but hasn’t played any role in the show since. The pattern warps around those 5 and all 5 being in the same place at the same time makes all kinds of crazy shit possible. I include Moiraine’s power level in that moment as one of those things.

I have not read the books. I would probably get more satisfaction out of the books than the show because I love detail and buildup. The tv show doesn't feel like an adaptation of a big book series to me. It kinda feels like a flavor of the week kind of show, here's a new monster/villain/ambiguous person this week and then the next week. I wish it was better sadly.
 

IDvsEGO

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Season 2 finale was excellent and the season overall was great. Show really turned it around.
Absolutely.
They took a rough season 1, and turned it around significantly.
There were some flaws, but they’re set up very well for season 3.
 

The Marquis

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I have not read the books. I would probably get more satisfaction out of the books than the show because I love detail and buildup. The tv show doesn't feel like an adaptation of a big book series to me. It kinda feels like a flavor of the week kind of show, here's a new monster/villain/ambiguous person this week and then the next week. I wish it was better sadly.

The books are fantastic, but in addition to detail on stuff like why moraine and Rand would be able to wield such power in that moment, you’ll also spend about a page reading about the details each dress any woman wears and additionally a page about each place the characters sleep.
 

IDvsEGO

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I have not read the books. I would probably get more satisfaction out of the books than the show because I love detail and buildup. The tv show doesn't feel like an adaptation of a big book series to me. It kinda feels like a flavor of the week kind of show, here's a new monster/villain/ambiguous person this week and then the next week. I wish it was better sadly.
Saying it feels like a flavor of the weak show feels like a very random criticism, that kinda implies you don’t know what that is.
Those types of shows had no deep overarching plot, there was no story that wasn’t resolved in episode.
Please watch smallville season 1 for a perfect example of monster of the week.
There’s plenty of valid criticism for both seasons of this show, but that one isn’t it.
 
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The Marquis

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seems like not many of us here watch this show huh? (solely judging based on the lack of talk in this thread)

Sounds like the show overall is very popular globally. In the 10’s of millions of views per episode. However, as I understand it, India may be driving the success of the show. It’s popular in the US and Canada, but most shit is… but when you start to see India popping up as a country a show is popular, those numbers of true viewers and overall popularity may be much higher than anybody can know. You have to figure that for every Indian viewer you have a household more than double the size of that of the US or Canada, and you have a greater likelihood of community viewing as well. For 1 stream of Wheel of Time in India you may have 2-3x the number of people watching than would be in the US, Canada or Europe.
 

IDvsEGO

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The books are fantastic, but in addition to detail on stuff like why moraine and Rand would be able to wield such power in that moment, you’ll also spend about a page reading about the details each dress any woman wears and additionally a page about each place the characters sleep.
Jordan wrote beautiful prose, and needed his editor to cut that shit out, instead after book 6, both the editor and the publisher let him write anything he wanted.
Admittedly he was also like 60% of tors income, but still.

Sounds like the show overall is very popular globally. In the 10’s of millions of views per episode. However, as I understand it, India may be driving the success of the show. It’s popular in the US and Canada, but most shit is… but when you start to see India popping up as a country a show is popular, those numbers of true viewers and overall popularity may be much higher than anybody can know. You have to figure that for every Indian viewer you have a household more than double the size of that of the US or Canada, and you have a greater likelihood of community viewing as well. For 1 stream of Wheel of Time in India you may have 2-3x the number of people watching than would be in the US, Canada or Europe.
Wot is also a fantasy genre piece, that didn’t get the marketing for season 2 that it needed due to the strikes.
It hasn’t crossed into the type of cultural zeitgeist that late game of thrones did.

Season 3 could be that moment, where book 4 is considered one of the best books in the series and they’re sticking very close to the source material there.
 

beowulf

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Sounds like the show overall is very popular globally. In the 10’s of millions of views per episode. However, as I understand it, India may be driving the success of the show. It’s popular in the US and Canada, but most shit is… but when you start to see India popping up as a country a show is popular, those numbers of true viewers and overall popularity may be much higher than anybody can know. You have to figure that for every Indian viewer you have a household more than double the size of that of the US or Canada, and you have a greater likelihood of community viewing as well. For 1 stream of Wheel of Time in India you may have 2-3x the number of people watching than would be in the US, Canada or Europe.

Right from the get go above it has had strong viewership the below is for the first season it did bleed viewers as the season went on but seems to have come back strong and has better viewer and critique review for season 2.

Original Series

1. The Wheel of Time (Prime Video), 1.16 billion minutes viewed
2. Tiger King (Netflix), 685 million
3. The Great British Baking Show (Netflix), 513 million
4. You (Netflix), 489 million
5. Narcos: Mexico (Netflix), 428 million
6. Cowboy Bebop (Netflix), 421 million
7. Big Mouth (Netflix), 319 million
8. Maid (Netflix), 302 million
9. Locke & Key (Netflix), 293 million
10. Hellbound (Netflix), 272 million


After The Wheel of Time season 2 premiered its first three episodes on September 1, Rotten Tomatoes tabulated the season's first official scores, both from critics and audiences. At the time of writing, the audience score is a whopping 92%. This is a huge 33% uptick, as the audience score for season 1 was much lower, at a just-slightly Rotten 59 percent.
 

Holden Caulfield

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Feb 15, 2006
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seems like not many of us here watch this show huh? (solely judging based on the lack of talk in this thread)
I'm a big fan of this show. And I say that as someone who has read just the first 3-4 books maybe (I've read summaries for probably the first 8, I had mistaken that for actually reading them before, probably in this thread, as well as knowing spoilers for basically the whole series, how certain storylines play out). I've actually just started to try to read the books again, finished book 1 and about 60% through book 2.

For the show, the second season just blows the first season out of the water. The first book really does feel out of place though, it just feels like Jordan almost wrote it as a one off, but then decided to expand it out only after writing it. I cannot say if that's actually what happened, but when I read these books years and years ago that's how I felt about it. It makes for an awkward transition to screen. The show also struggled with COVID and a certain actor straight up quiting on them when they resumed production. The disappointing ending to Season 1 and the massive book changes in Season 2 is largely a result of that actor quiting as they had to rethink the entire gameplan. You could tell it really effected the end of Season 1 which really left a bitter taste in people's mouths.

As mentioned above this show does not seemingly catch a break because then Season 2 debuts during a writers and actors strike limiting press they can do to promote it. Even then it felt like Amazon did drop the ball on even stuff they could have done. Promotion for S1 was everywhere, felt very lacking this time around. But you could tell that despite the changes made necessary by the actor quiting in S1, with the time and effort they put into the storylines and completely changed ideas and arcs of season 2 that it is starting to come together. It was much improved on S1 and much like in the books, in S2/Book 2 is where the world and characters really start to come into focus.

I think Amazon is hoping for a Game of Thrones like development. GOT had massive promo's for S1 when it released, but it didn't catch on all that much early on. Rating steadily climbed across the first few seasons though that it eventually become the cultural zeitgeist it become. While I don't think this will ever come even slightly close to taking over on that level, the improved audience scores and critics scores of S2 has it trending upwards.

I do remember the start of book 3 being super annoying, where after the big "Dragon Reborn is Back Baby" announcement they spend the start of the next book like hiding the in mountains or something I just kept thinking "DO SOMETHING". So I think they are taking the best approach to season 3 by combining book 3 and book 4 together essentially. With 14 books there's plenty of material so it's almost going to be the opposite of GOT going forward where GOT had to venture into unexplored territory as the books weren't finished, whereas here they are going to have to start condensing the books as they will never get 14 seasons to play it out a book for each season.
 

The Marquis

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I like book 3 and 4 best of the entire series, so I'm very much looking forward to what's coming. 5 was also among the best but I didn't love the last 1/4 of that one like most do.
 

IDvsEGO

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I'm a big fan of this show. And I say that as someone who has read just the first 3-4 books maybe (I've read summaries for probably the first 8, I had mistaken that for actually reading them before, probably in this thread, as well as knowing spoilers for basically the whole series, how certain storylines play out). I've actually just started to try to read the books again, finished book 1 and about 60% through book 2.

For the show, the second season just blows the first season out of the water. The first book really does feel out of place though, it just feels like Jordan almost wrote it as a one off, but then decided to expand it out only after writing it. I cannot say if that's actually what happened, but when I read these books years and years ago that's how I felt about it. It makes for an awkward transition to screen. The show also struggled with COVID and a certain actor straight up quiting on them when they resumed production. The disappointing ending to Season 1 and the massive book changes in Season 2 is largely a result of that actor quiting as they had to rethink the entire gameplan. You could tell it really effected the end of Season 1 which really left a bitter taste in people's mouths.

As mentioned above this show does not seemingly catch a break because then Season 2 debuts during a writers and actors strike limiting press they can do to promote it. Even then it felt like Amazon did drop the ball on even stuff they could have done. Promotion for S1 was everywhere, felt very lacking this time around. But you could tell that despite the changes made necessary by the actor quiting in S1, with the time and effort they put into the storylines and completely changed ideas and arcs of season 2 that it is starting to come together. It was much improved on S1 and much like in the books, in S2/Book 2 is where the world and characters really start to come into focus.

I think Amazon is hoping for a Game of Thrones like development. GOT had massive promo's for S1 when it released, but it didn't catch on all that much early on. Rating steadily climbed across the first few seasons though that it eventually become the cultural zeitgeist it become. While I don't think this will ever come even slightly close to taking over on that level, the improved audience scores and critics scores of S2 has it trending upwards.

I do remember the start of book 3 being super annoying, where after the big "Dragon Reborn is Back Baby" announcement they spend the start of the next book like hiding the in mountains or something I just kept thinking "DO SOMETHING". So I think they are taking the best approach to season 3 by combining book 3 and book 4 together essentially. With 14 books there's plenty of material so it's almost going to be the opposite of GOT going forward where GOT had to venture into unexplored territory as the books weren't finished, whereas here they are going to have to start condensing the books as they will never get 14 seasons to play it out a book for each season.
Season 3 will be just book 4.
Book 2/3 have a similar plot so they don’t want to do them both.

The plan is 8 seasons.

I like book 3 and 4 best of the entire series, so I'm very much looking forward to what's coming. 5 was also among the best but I didn't love the last 1/4 of that one like most do.
My favorites are 4-6, 12-14.
 
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The Marquis

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Season 3 will be just book 4.
Book 2/3 have a similar plot so they don’t want to do them both.

The plan is 8 seasons.


My favorites are 4-6, 12-14.

So you're saying they are going to just straight up SKIP the Stone of Tear? That seems incredibly unlikely. I can imagine that they would combine 3 and 4 into one season, which I'd prefer, because you aren't wrong, Book 2 and 3 sort of run the same path for a good portion, albeit with different stakes. If this show makes it 8 seasons, I'll be incredibly happy.
 

IDvsEGO

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So you're saying they are going to just straight up SKIP the Stone of Tear? That seems incredibly unlikely. I can imagine that they would combine 3 and 4 into one season, which I'd prefer, because you aren't wrong, Book 2 and 3 sort of run the same path for a good portion, albeit with different stakes. If this show makes it 8 seasons, I'll be incredibly happy.
Theyve 100% confirmed, season 3 will be book 4.


They can easily slide tear into a later season, while its a massive plot point, its not hard to make it happen later.
 
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The Marquis

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Theyve 100% confirmed, season 3 will be book 4.


They can easily slide tear into a later season, while its a massive plot point, its not hard to make it happen later.

I see, I see. I'm starting to justify it in my head now.

Rand's use of Saidar on the tower at Falme basically did the same thing as him obtaining Callandor at the Stone in book 3. The whole display led to the death of Ishameal and the Aiel to proclaim him Car'a'carn, which if I recall correctly, both happened in the books at the Stone. So I suppose that's the major change that allows Book 3 to be skipped. I don't suppose you need Callandor to tell the story (though it felt like it when I was reading the books).

Really thinking about it, the lack of doubling down proof on Rand being the Dragon isn't exactly needed and as great as book 3 was, it wasn't really necessary, except to introduce characters like Aviendha and the Aiel, which could have easily been inserted into the 2nd book in the exact way the show has done.

Cool.
 
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hotcabbagesoup

why u guys want Celebrini, he played like a weenie
Feb 18, 2009
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I see, I see. I'm starting to justify it in my head now.

Rand's use of Saidar on the tower at Falme basically did the same thing as him obtaining Callandor at the Stone in book 3. The whole display led to the death of Ishameal and the Aiel to proclaim him Car'a'carn, which if I recall correctly, both happened in the books at the Stone. So I suppose that's the major change that allows Book 3 to be skipped. I don't suppose you need Callandor to tell the story (though it felt like it when I was reading the books).

Really thinking about it, the lack of doubling down proof on Rand being the Dragon isn't exactly needed and as great as book 3 was, it wasn't really necessary, except to introduce characters like Aviendha and the Aiel, which could have easily been inserted into the 2nd book in the exact way the show has done.

Cool.

wow that much was skipped?! the aiel plot flowed pretty well this season. gotta give the showrunners a lot of credit
 

IDvsEGO

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wow that much was skipped?! the aiel plot flowed pretty well this season. gotta give the showrunners a lot of credit
There’s a few things missing from the aiel plot, such as the introduction of rhuarc, which will be resolved early in s3.
I imagine he’ll already be there at the start of the season.
 

IDvsEGO

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I see, I see. I'm starting to justify it in my head now.

Rand's use of Saidar on the tower at Falme basically did the same thing as him obtaining Callandor at the Stone in book 3. The whole display led to the death of Ishameal and the Aiel to proclaim him Car'a'carn, which if I recall correctly, both happened in the books at the Stone. So I suppose that's the major change that allows Book 3 to be skipped. I don't suppose you need Callandor to tell the story (though it felt like it when I was reading the books).

Really thinking about it, the lack of doubling down proof on Rand being the Dragon isn't exactly needed and as great as book 3 was, it wasn't really necessary, except to introduce characters like Aviendha and the Aiel, which could have easily been inserted into the 2nd book in the exact way the show has done.

Cool.
The book 2 entire plot is “rand doubting he’s the dragon” book 3 is “rand needing to confirm he’s the dragon”
Because book moiraine didn’t say she was looking for the dragon until early book 2.
That one moment shifted 3 books of plots.
 
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