Prospect Info: The Prospect Thread

[sting101]

Brady Keeper Brady Keeper
Colton Poolman Colton Poolman

 

[Cupless44]

Which is a solid, but unspectacular rookie season. Puts him on the level of who - Landeskog/RNH/Tkachuk?

Pettersson's season was the best SHL season we've seen in 40 years. Yeah, the amount of players going to the SHL is obviously much smaller than the number of players going to the NHL, but I would still rank it as clearly the better season to my eyes.

In my mind Hischier is a safer pick but I'd swing for the fences with Pettersson - he's got the highest upside of anyone in the entire draft.

I think you are under estimating making the NHL as an 18 year old, let alone putting up 50 points. Pettersson at 19, is playing in a much, much weaker league than the NHL.

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

I think you are under estimating making the NHL as an 18 year old, let alone putting up 50 points. Pettersson at 19, is playing in a much, much weaker league than the NHL.

This again ?
Just because Pettersson is a couple months older, it doesn’t mean he’s D +1 season should be label as “he’s 19”

 

[Lindgren]

TPS takes its first game of the playoffs, 4-3 in overtime. One goal for Juolevi, nothing for Palmu.

 

[Cupless44]

This again ?
Just because Pettersson is a couple months older, it doesn’t mean he’s D +1 season should be label as “he’s 19”

Not really caught up on the age, the main points are...the level of competition between the two leagues is not close...and putting up 50 points as an 18 year old in the best league in the world is not to be taken for granted.

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

Not really caught up on the age, the main points are...the level of competition between the two leagues is not close...and putting up 50 points as an 18 year old in the best league in the world is not to be taken for granted.

Yeah I get that
I just remember once a leafs fan argeued that Pettersson’s D+1 season should only be compare to Nylander’s D +2 because he’s older than most of his draft class...

 

[docbenton]

I would pretty comfortably put Mittelstadt ahead of Pettersson as well. Don't care about points, will take the more talented prospect. Had Mittelstadt at 3 and Pettersson at 6 at the draft and Pettersson's game hasn't evolved enough move him ahead. Pettersson still relies on time and space and has a hard time generating offense in tight checking games because he doesn't have dymamic feet or quite good enough hands to beat guys 1 on 1 consistently or the strength to muscle through checks.

His best attributes - shooting and anticipation without the puck - rely on opportunism as well but those opportunities do come up frequently enough for him to contribute.

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

I would pretty comfortably put Mittelstadt ahead of Pettersson as well. Don't care about points, will take the more talented prospect. Had Mittelstadt at 3 and Pettersson at 6 at the draft and Pettersson's game hasn't evolved enough move him ahead. Pettersson still relies on time and space and has a hard time generating offense in tight checking games because he doesn't have dymamic feet or quite good enough hands to beat guys 1 on 1 consistently or the strength to muscle through checks.

His best attributes - shooting and anticipation without the puck - rely on opportunism as well but those opportunities do come up frequently enough for him to contribute.

Any sources to back up these judgements?

Productions and the level of league they play in play big parts when viewing a prospect, I’m sorry but you sound like one of those salty Sabres fan on the main prospect board

One just won the scoring tittle of SHL as a teenager
One can’t even crack PPG in NCAA
There’s literally nothing, nothing that can support your opinion

 

[Bad Goalie]

I would pretty comfortably put Mittelstadt ahead of Pettersson as well. Don't care about points, will take the more talented prospect. Had Mittelstadt at 3 and Pettersson at 6 at the draft and Pettersson's game hasn't evolved enough move him ahead. Pettersson still relies on time and space and has a hard time generating offense in tight checking games because he doesn't have dymamic feet or quite good enough hands to beat guys 1 on 1 consistently or the strength to muscle through checks.

His best attributes - shooting and anticipation without the puck - rely on opportunism as well but those opportunities do come up frequently enough for him to contribute.

Man, you better put your helmet on. LOL. That is currently blasphemous talk.

 

[VanJack]

I would pretty comfortably put Mittelstadt ahead of Pettersson as well. Don't care about points, will take the more talented prospect. Had Mittelstadt at 3 and Pettersson at 6 at the draft and Pettersson's game hasn't evolved enough move him ahead. Pettersson still relies on time and space and has a hard time generating offense in tight checking games because he doesn't have dymamic feet or quite good enough hands to beat guys 1 on 1 consistently or the strength to muscle through checks.

His best attributes - shooting and anticipation without the puck - rely on opportunism as well but those opportunities do come up frequently enough for him to contribute.

Mittelstadt has 30 points in 34 games in the NCAA with the U of Minnesota, but just 11 goals....not bad......but you really can't compare that to what Pettersson is doing in Sweden's top pro league...A total 56 points, including 24 goals in only 44 games.....you're not the first poster to place far too heavy an emphasis on the WJC, and won't be the last.

 

[docbenton]

Mittelstadt has 30 points in 34 games in the NCAA with the U of Minnesota, but just 11 goals....not bad......but you really can't compare that to what Pettersson is doing in Sweden's top pro league...A total 56 points, including 24 goals in only 44 games.....you're not the first poster to place far too heavy an emphasis on the WJC, and won't be the last.

It's not just the WJC, you watch for skill and ability. Mittelstadt has elite puckhandling and playmaking ability, far above what Pettersson is capable of, even considering the difference in the leagues they play in. You watch for how quickly players close on them and how they react, how they work themselves out of situations where time and space is limited. It's possible to scout objectively in different leagues if you have an understanding of time and space when you watch the game. It's why scouts were able to determine Cale Makar was an elite talent even though he was playing in Junior A. Trust me, it wasn't because of his production, which was great but far from worthy alone of a 4th overall pick.

Casey's got things to work on just like Elias, but the upside is higher because of the skill level. Elias does some things better, but I can't help be swayed by Casey's skillset.

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

It's not just the WJC, you watch for skill and ability. Casey has elite puckhandling and playmaking ability, far above what Pettersson is capable of, even considering the difference in the leagues they play in. You watch for how quickly players close on them and how they react, how they work themselves out of situations where time and space is limited. It's possible to scout objectively in different leagues if you have an understanding of time and space when you watch the game. It's why scouts were able to determine Cale Makar was an elite talent even though he was playing in Junior A. Trust me, it wasn't because of his production, which was great but far from worthy alone of a 4th overall pick.

Casey's got things to work on just like Elias, but the upside is higher because of the skill level.

To sums it up
“Eye tests” > “Actual production + competition level”
Hey, if that’s your stand, fine.

 

[docbenton]

To sums it up
“Eye tests” > “Actual production + competition level”
Is this your point?

Yes, statistics in all forms inform you and tell you things to watch for, but at the end of the day you go with your eyes. Otherwise don't bother scouting at all!

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

Yes, statistics in all forms inform you and tell you things to watch for, but at the end of the day you go with your eyes. Otherwise don't bother scouting at all!

Okay then
Forget about the difference between SHL and NCAA or their actual productions.
Because these aren’t as important as eye testing when it comes to prospect evaluation

 

[docbenton]

Okay then
Forget about the difference between SHL and NCAA or their actual productions.
Because these aren’t as important as eye testing when it comes to prospect evaluation

You're positing this as if it were a controversial opinion. Could you imagine arguing the opposite? That statistical production alone trumps the eye test? Then there would be no reason to watch a player play because it's not possible for the eye test to inform statistics, only vice versa. Numbers don't have a brain.

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

You're positing this as if it were a controversial opinion. Could you imagine arguing the opposite? That statistical production alone trumps the eye test? Then there would be no reason to watch a player play because it's not possible for the eye test to inform statistics, only vice versa. Numbers don't have a brain.

Plenty of people have watched Pettersson play in both SHL and WJC, from the scouts to the fans, we even have some posters who watch Vaxjoe on a game by game basis.
Petterson not only past the eye tests, he also has a SHL scoring tittlr to back up his play.
What does Mittlstedlt has again? Ah right, the “smarter and better than Pettersson eye testing” with 30 pts in 34 NCAA games to back it up...

Until Mittlstedlt proves to be a better nhl player than Pettersson, Pettersson will always the better player in everyone mind except Sabres fans.

EVEN if you are right, Mittlstedlt is indeed the better player, there’s still absolutely nothing proof it until they both make the big league.

 

[docbenton]

Plenty of people have watched Pettersson play in both SHL and WJC, from the scouts to the fans, we even have some posters who watch Vaxjoe on a game by game basis.
Petterson not only past the eye tests, he also has a SHL scoring tittlr to back up his play.
What does Mittlstedlt has again? Ah right, the “smarter and better than Pettersson eye testing” with 30 pts in 34 NCAA games to back it up...

Until Mittlstedlt proves to be a better nhl player than Pettersson, Pettersson will always the better player in everyone mind except Sabres fans

So agree then that the eye test is more important and the final verdict. Just that you don't trust my evaluation. Fair, we'll see. With young players the most important thing is always continual improvement, so nothing is written in stone.

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

So you agree then that the eye test is more important and the final verdict. Just that you don't trust my evaluation.

Eye test is important, but stats are more important because those directly affect wins and loses.
We have plenty of players on this team in the last decade who occationally past the eye test, but just never produce.

They skate hard, forcheck hard, make some smart plays, but they never know how to produce

 

[vancityluongo]

how about this one: where would petterson go this year if he was undrafted last season and draft eligible this year? 2nd or 1st?

2nd at best, and honestly maybe 3rd behind Svechnikov.

 

[logan5]

It's not just the WJC, you watch for skill and ability. Mittelstadt has elite puckhandling and playmaking ability, far above what Pettersson is capable of, even considering the difference in the leagues they play in. You watch for how quickly players close on them and how they react, how they work themselves out of situations where time and space is limited. It's possible to scout objectively in different leagues if you have an understanding of time and space when you watch the game. It's why scouts were able to determine Cale Makar was an elite talent even though he was playing in Junior A. Trust me, it wasn't because of his production, which was great but far from worthy alone of a 4th overall pick.

Casey's got things to work on just like Elias, but the upside is higher because of the skill level. Elias does some things better, but I can't help be swayed by Casey's skillset.

How legit is the Vollman translation formula? Because he has the Big 10 (where Mittelstadt plays) rated at .33 vs SHL at .58. Huge difference, and Pettersson has a way higher points per game total. It doesn't seem even close.

 

[me2]

Hischier is going to score 50-55 points in the NHL at 18, almost entirely at ES. He's still #1.

I'd agree with that. He's NHL proven and that would get him taken 1st. While Pettersson might have the higher ceiling, Hischier has shown his floor is excellent and his ceiling is very good.

 

[Southern_Canuck]

Tue March 20

Europe Playoffs

TPS 4 Saipa 3 (OT)
Juolevi 1 goal (1st)
Palmu 0 points

TPS leads series 1-0

Brynas 4 Vaxjo 3
Pettersson 0 points, even

Series tied 1-1

S_C

 

[M2Beezy]

Peetey boy a big no sho so far in the two playoff games this IS getting concerning now. Everybody expecting a MONDO multi point game three from him now

 

[604]

Eye test is important, but stats are more important because those directly affect wins and loses.
We have plenty of players on this team in the last decade who occationally past the eye test, but just never produce.

They skate hard, forcheck hard, make some smart plays, but they never know how to produce

So how many players like Corey Locke and Robbie Schremp pass the stat test but fail the eye test?

A lot.

 

[Baby Pettersson]

Peetey boy a big no sho so far in the two playoff games this IS getting concerning now. Everybody expecting a MONDO multi point game three from him now

At least Juolevi has scored. Looks like he's our top prospect now and Pettersson is just a bust.