OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Something Something Hilton

[Mr Jiggyfly]

To be fair, he has every right as that stuff happens a lot in sports when a QB misses a guy wide open like that. When you do the work and your QB misses you, it's rough. It happens in the NFL a lot. Hell, it even happens in hockey when a play doesn't go the right way. Geno/Kessel?

Granted - the sum of all antics with Brown is annoying and I understand when fans hate him. But how Ben missed him on that play is beyond me. Ben has not been good.

Brown isn't the only guy in the NFL who works hard, that's a bad excuse for his antics.

Roth missed Bryant wide open for a walk in TD when he had three steps on his guy and Bryant didn't throw a child's tantrum.

I've seen Ryan miss Jones plenty of times when he was wide open and Jones never acted like a child about it.

The worst of it is that Brown excused away his behavior once again, so it will happen again, and again, and again...

 

[NewAgeOutlaw]

A bit of an overreaction? Nah... it was a child's tantrum.

You don't embarrass your teammates like that, especially the guy throwing you the ball.

People need to stop making excuses for his behavior because it's getting to be a real problem. Roth has even admitted he has to stop focusing in on Brown so much... and I'm 100% sure he is doing that because Brown is always in his ear.

I'm losing count of all the selfish antics we are seeing from Brown the last several years. It's not healthy for the team, and you don't see this garbage from Julio Jones.

The guy throwing him the ball embarasses his teammates all of the time. How many times this year alone has Ben gestured at a receiver in 4 games? He constantly does it, and half the time he does it when the receiver dropped a ball that Ben made unneccesarily difficult to catch by making a shitty throw.

A few weeks ago Roth had a similar tantrum at Bryant's expense.

Brown isn't the only guy in the NFL who works hard, that's a bad excuse for his antics.

Roth missed Bryant wide open for a walk in TD when he had three steps on his guy and Bryant didn't throw a child's tantrum.

I've seen Ryan miss Jones plenty of times when he was wide open and Jones never acted like a child about it.

The worst of it is that Brown excused away his behavior once again, so it will happen again, and again, and again...

Ben did not see Bryant on that one play, but it is apples to oranges because that play wasn't designed specifically to go to Bryant. The play Brown was upset at was designed to go to Brown deep and nowhere else, it worked, and Ben didn't read the play properly.

So we have 2 players who whine at their teammates on the field. At least Antonio Brown is up front about being an ego maniac. Ben masquerades as some wise leader and looks down on guys like Brown for being young and stupid despite the fact that young Ben was far more stupid than Brown could ever dream of being.

Then you get down to performance. Brown, for all his warts, is giving you a top receiver's quality of play week in and week out. Ben, since the beginning of last season, has been a really average qb. The offense is supposed to be some historical force yet they are struggling to score against bad teams because Ben is doing his best Jay Cutler imitation.

I'll say it straight up, the offense in the first 4 weeks of this season would have been a shambles without AB's big play ability.

 

[Pengwins]

Shazier's peak is as high as any defensive player in the NFL. I just wish he was a bit more consistent, both in terms of performance and (mostly) staying healthy.

Atleast Shazier usually plays his best in the biggest games

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

The guy throwing him the ball embarasses his teammates all of the time. How many times this year alone has Ben gestured at a receiver in 4 games? He constantly does it, and half the time he does it when the receiver dropped a ball that Ben made unneccesarily difficult to catch by making a ****ty throw.

A few weeks ago Roth had a similar tantrum at Bryant's expense.

Wait, so now angrily gesturing when a receiver messes up, is akin to throwing a tantrum on the sideline, throwing a Gatorade jug, and losing it on your OC?

Get real.

Every single QB has done what Roth has done, very few receivers act like little babies like Brown.

Ben did not see Bryant on that one play, but it is apples to oranges because that play wasn't designed specifically to go to Bryant. The play Brown was upset at was designed to go to Brown deep and nowhere else, it worked, and Ben didn't read the play properly.

So we have 2 players who whine at their teammates on the field. At least Antonio Brown is up front about being an ego maniac. Ben masquerades as some wise leader and looks down on guys like Brown for being young and stupid despite the fact that young Ben was far more stupid than Brown could ever dream of being.

Then you get down to performance. Brown, for all his warts, is giving you a top receiver's quality of play week in and week out. Ben, since the beginning of last season, has been a really average qb. The offense is supposed to be some historical force yet they are struggling to score against bad teams because Ben is doing his best Jay Cutler imitation.

I'll say it straight up, the offense in the first 4 weeks of this season would have been a shambles without AB's big play ability.

Who cares if the play was designed to go to Brown? When Roth looked that way Brown was between the hash with the safety and corner.. when he turned his head he broke open.

Shit happens, that doesn't mean you act like a child about it. It's fine to be mad and maybe throw up your hands, but to go back to the sidelines and act how he did.... and you are trying to excuse that away?

Brutal.

Maybe Brown makes so many plays because his QB is constantly forcing him the ball. I wonder why Roth feels compelled to keep forcing him the ball and finally said this week he was done with it.

Maybe the offense would be more efficient if it wasn't all about Brown and his me first attitude and big mouth every time he doesn't see the ball.

 

[DanielPlainview]

Ben is signalling hard that he's playing his final season.

 

[NewAgeOutlaw]

Wait, so now angrily gesturing when a receiver messes up, is akin to throwing a tantrum on the sideline, throwing a Gatorade jug, and losing it on your OC?

Get real.

Every single QB has done what Roth has done, very few receivers act like little babies like Brown.



Who cares if the play was designed to go to Brown? When Roth looked that way Brown was between the hash with the safety and corner.. when he turned his head he broke open.

**** happens, that doesn't mean you act like a child about it. It's fine to be mad and maybe throw up your hands, but to go back to the sidelines and act how he did.... and you are trying to excuse that away?

Brutal.

Maybe Brown makes so many plays because his QB is constantly forcing him the ball. I wonder why Roth feels compelled to keep forcing him the ball and finally said this week he was done with it.

Maybe the offense would be more efficient if it wasn't all about Brown and his me first attitude and big mouth every time he doesn't see the ball.

Very few receivers? Receivers are notorious egomaniacs. Guys like Julio and Fitz are exceptions. I don't care if it is Chad Johnson, TO, or AB, a team will always tolerate the ego as long as the production is there.

And if Ben is forcing it to AB then that is his own issue. He is a leader of this team and he should do what's best instead of trying to placate his teammate's ego. Besides, Ben ran one oc out of town so now we have Haley and he has even shouted at Haley on the sideline in his tenure with the team. You are also being pretty light on Ben for that play. He gave up on a slam dunk home run play when he had time to stand in the pocket. Quite frankly, he looked like a rattled rookie on that play.

Listen, I will grant you that AB is a caustic personality. I will not grant you that such actions are unique to him. I'm just glad he isn't failing tests or slugging women.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Very few receivers? Receivers are notorious egomaniacs. Guys like Julio and Fitz are exceptions. I don't care if it is Chad Johnson, TO, or AB, a team will always tolerate the ego as long as the production is there.

And if Ben is forcing it to AB then that is his own issue. He is a leader of this team and he should do what's best instead of trying to placate his teammate's ego. Besides, Ben ran one oc out of town so now we have Haley and he has even shouted at Haley on the sideline in his tenure with the team. You are also being pretty light on Ben for that play. He gave up on a slam dunk home run play when he had time to stand in the pocket. Quite frankly, he looked like a rattled rookie on that play.

Listen, I will grant you that AB is a caustic personality. I will not grant you that such actions are unique to him. I'm just glad he isn't failing tests or slugging women.

Were you or Brown standing in that pocket to know what he saw? Nope.

QBs make mistakes and even Brady doesn't always see guys when they are wide open. Shit happens and Roth has to play better, but that is no excuse for Brown to have another of his little hissy fits.

These are two separate issues.

When you have to start using the fact he isn't a woman beater or engage in criminal behavior to defend his actions on the field, that's pretty telling.

OBJ is the only other flanker that has had consistent outbursts like this in the last several years. There are well over 100 flankers in the league and if it was such common behavior among them, there should be dozens upon dozens of videos you can show me with all these common outbursts.

Bringing up Ocho and TO doesn't help your case as they were me first players that never won a single SB between them.

Tomlin has let this behavior fester for years and now they have a full blown diva on their hands.

 

[Al Smith]

Were you or Brown standing in that pocket to know what he saw? Nope.

QBs make mistakes and even Brady doesn't always see guys when they are wide open. **** happens and Roth has to play better, but that is no excuse for Brown to have another of his little hissy fits.

These are two separate issues.

When you have to start using the fact he isn't a woman beater or engage in criminal behavior to defend his actions on the field, that's pretty telling.

OBJ is the only other flanker that has had outbursts like this in the last several years. There are well over 100 flankers in the league and if it was such common behavior among them, there should be dozens upon dozens of videos you can show me with all these common outbursts.

Bringing up Ocho and TO doesn't help your case as they were me first players that never won a single SB between them.

Tomlin has let this behavior fester for years and now they have a full blown diva on their hands.

Add Dez Bryant to the Diva list, but yeah, they are way more the exception than the rule. Ben's been off this year, but what happened yesterday - missing a wide open receiver, whether he was the primary or not - happens all the time. At most, you would expect some gesture from the receiver, but not a tantrum on the sidelines. Media focus doesn't help.

And speaking of Ben missing wide open receivers:

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2017/10/roethlisberger-regrets-not-seeing-wide-open-finney-win-ravens/

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Add Dez Bryant to the Diva list, but yeah, they are way more the exception than the rule. Ben's been off this year, but what happened yesterday - missing a wide open receiver, whether he was the primary or not - happens all the time. At most, you would expect some gesture from the receiver, but not a tantrum on the sidelines. Media focus doesn't help.

Being frustrated is fine. Having a hissy fit isn't.

Throw your hands up, put them on your head, etc. Then get over it.

 

[NewAgeOutlaw]

Yeah, Ocho and TO didn't win a sb because of their egos. That's an interesting take.

You are claiming that Brown's ego is hindering the offense. As I recall, Brown had a huge ego the last time Bryant was healthy and eligible yet the offense was doing quite well. Perhaps it's because the qb was making throws.

You are acting as if my claims are outlandish yet you are singling out Brown as it relates to the offense's struggles when the qb through 4 weeks has yet to consistently hit even the most elementary of throws. How many backs has he missed in the flat this year? Brown's ego is the least of the offense's issues at this point.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Yeah, Ocho and TO didn't win a sb because of their egos. That's an interesting take.

Actually that is a common take that has been said by many. It's certainly not some original idea, but it is most certainly quite valid, because you don't win SBs with me first players.

You are claiming that Brown's ego is hindering the offense. As I recall, Brown had a huge ego the last time Bryant was healthy and eligible yet the offense was doing quite well. Perhaps it's because the qb was making throws.

You are acting as if my claims are outlandish yet you are singling out Brown as it relates to the offense's struggles when the qb through 4 weeks has yet to consistently hit even the most elementary of throws. How many backs has he missed in the flat this year? Brown's ego is the least of the offense's issues at this point.

I recall Brown being hurt in the playoffs and Bryant having the best game of his career agt one of the best defenses this league has seen in the last 20 years.

I recall Brown having another hissy fit when Roth was hurt not so long ago, and he wasn't seeing the ball.

So Roth doesn't need Brown as much as Brown needs him to be successful. The Steelers have other weapons, but when your QB feels he has to keep getting his diva wr the ball and he misses other guys wide open, it's a huge problem.

BR was never a guy to fixate on one flanker like he does with Brown, and it's become a huge issue the last couple of seasons. That is 100% directly related to Brown's ego and constant whining for the ball.

If you don't think Brown's big mouth and huge ego isn't causing the offense to be ineffective, I suggest you watch some All-22 and see how many balls BR has been forcing to him with other guys wide open.

If you want to be in denial about it, cool. I've seen the tape, I know what I'm seeing.

Do you?

 

[UnrealMachine]

I don't mind a receiver that "shows passion". Brown is at the top of the league in receptions and receiving yards despite having a QB ranked 14th in QB rating (0.1 point higher than Andy freaking Dalton). Who's holding who back?

 

[NewAgeOutlaw]

It is not Brown's fault Ben has been trash. Ben has forced throws to all of his targets. He is just making bad reads in general. And using a 1 game sample where Bryant went off when Brown was hurt does not prove that Brown is hurting the offense.

And again, it is just as much Ben's problem if he is forcing balls to Brown to placate his ego. You are now implying that I am clueless in this matter but excuse me for not seeing why it is AB's fault that Ben has been as accurate as google translate this season (and frankly the majority of last season as well).

 

[Pick87your71Poison]

Yeah Ben's mistakes this year have largely been very strange. He has definitely missed his share of relatively easy throws which is a physical issue, but he also seems to be reading the plays and understanding the playbook worse than over the last few years, which is a mental mistake and makes much less sense to attribute to age/physical wearing down.

 

[Brandinho]

Brown has always been a raging egomaniac. Ben's certainly a primadonna in his own right, but that shouldn't be used to downplay how out of order Brown's tantrum was.

If any receiver had a right to be upset at Ben, it was Martavis who abused Baltimore's coverage and could have walked into the end zone if Ben hadn't missed him so badly.

 

[Brandinho]

Atleast Shazier usually plays his best in the biggest games

No doubt. I love Shazier. I just think there's yet another level he can reach. He could be the best defensive player in the NFL.

 

[Pick87your71Poison]

Yup Shazier is already great but his upside is outstanding. His ridiculous speed for a LB paired with his instincts are a lethal combo.

 

[JTG]

Seeing the Brown tantrum replay again and can't help shaking my head...

This guy wants to create his own brand and I suspect would be more happy putting up 10/200 in a loss, over 5/50 and a win.

Just sick of his **** TBTH.

If we were in a year where it wasn't an "all in" year and Ben was long in the tooth, I'd consider strongly in trading both Bell and Brown for high draft picks. Considering where we are as a franchise right now though, we can't give any of our stars up.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

It is not Brown's fault Ben has been trash. Ben has forced throws to all of his targets. He is just making bad reads in general. And using a 1 game sample where Bryant went off when Brown was hurt does not prove that Brown is hurting the offense.

No, it tells us that Brown isn't the only one who can make plays in this offense and have a big game.

And again, it is just as much Ben's problem if he is forcing balls to Brown to placate his ego. You are now implying that I am clueless in this matter but excuse me for not seeing why it is AB's fault that Ben has been as accurate as google translate this season (and frankly the majority of last season as well).

I already said BR has to play better so no clue where you are trying to go with this.

BR needing to get better doesn't excuse Brown from acting like a child. This isn't a one off thing, it's a pattern that he has continued to follow for the last several years.

Do you honestly believe Brown's constant whining for the ball and acting like a diva isn't the main reason BR is forcing him balls?

 

[Pick87your71Poison]

Ben forcing balls to AB is def an issue that deserves blame on both sides. Ben has been around long enough and seen enough that he needs to be able to manage the game better, plus his issue isn't just forcing balls to AB since he is making bad decisions and throws to everyone. That being said, the quarterback position is hard enough in making the right reads quickly that having a superstar WR constantly in your ear and in your head when making those quick reads absolutely makes an impact on the QB making the right decision. It's easy to start looking at ABs route first instead of the correct progression or justify that he's more open than he is so you can throw that way or just go there by default if you can't find an obvious throw.

It doesn't completely justify Ben's mistakes, but it definitely doesn't help.

 

[Dread Pirate Roberts]

I don't remember Ben forcing so many dumb passes to AB with other guys wide open last year or the year before that. I think at least some of it is bad habits from last year when AB was the only receiver worth a tinker's damn for most of the season.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Ben forcing balls to AB is def an issue that deserves blame on both sides. Ben has been around long enough and seen enough that he needs to be able to manage the game better, plus his issue isn't just forcing balls to AB since he is making bad decisions and throws to everyone. That being said, the quarterback position is hard enough in making the right reads quickly that having a superstar WR constantly in your ear and in your head when making those quick reads absolutely makes an impact on the QB making the right decision. It's easy to start looking at ABs route first instead of the correct progression or justify that he's more open than he is so you can throw that way or just go there by default if you can't find an obvious throw.

It doesn't completely justify Ben's mistakes, but it definitely doesn't help.

Batch was on DVE this morning and said Brown used to always bitch to BR he was open, and BR would feel really bad about not throwing him the ball/not seeing him open and then different times come to the sideline to ask Batch what he saw. Batch laughed and said most of the time I'd tell him "hell no man he was doubled". Then they would review the pics together and sometimes he even had a third guy on him, Batch said.

Brown just wants the ball all the time because STATS!

Bryant runs a dozen go/posts a game and BR is missing him when he's getting several steps on his man, or underthrowing him... most of the time he's not even looking his way. Yet you don't see Bryant throwing hissy fits about it. That has to be frustrating as hell running down the field that many times a game and beating your guy and your QB keeps missing you ...

This is the same guy who keeps getting suspended for weed, and even he is mature enough to know you don't act like a child and throw tantrums on the football field/sideline.

 

[Don'tcry4mejanhrdina]

Or maybe he's just more mellow because of said weed.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

A bit of an overreaction? Nah... it was a child's tantrum.

You don't embarrass your teammates like that, especially the guy throwing you the ball.

People need to stop making excuses for his behavior because it's getting to be a real problem. Roth has even admitted he has to stop focusing in on Brown so much... and I'm 100% sure he is doing that because Brown is always in his ear.

I'm losing count of all the selfish antics we are seeing from Brown the last several years. It's not healthy for the team, and you don't see this garbage from Julio Jones.

1. I will never understand why fans care about this kind of stuff.
2. Is it really a problem for the Steelers or just fans who care?
3. Im 100% sure he's doing it because forcing it into double and triple coverage is a bad idea especially when you have many other good/competent options.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

1. I will never understand why fans care about this kind of stuff.
2. Is it really a problem for the Steelers or just fans who care?
3. Im 100% sure he's doing it because forcing it into double and triple coverage is a bad idea especially when you have many other good/competent options.

You can't understand why fans want to see a football team they follow be disciplined and held accountable for their actions?

That's a weird ass take TBTH.

Maybe each week a different Steeler can have a tantrum since it's not an issue at all. I'm sure that wouldn't cause any problems whatsoever.