The Free Agency/Trades Thread (Proposals, Speculation, Rumors) III

[Byrddog]

There is no way in hell Columbus packages a 1C no matter the issues and a 20 goal scorer for Jones and one of our failing wingers its just not the way they operate.

 

[herzausstein]

So you believe it is not Hartnell?

Or

Hartnell + big cap dump?

Hartnell + big cap dump would be very painful to the financial wellbeing of the team.

People talk of hartnell like he is a cap dump.... The guy is still earning his salary and then some. He'd be leading this team in points. His contract may be a ticking time bomb but no one knows for sure. If we were getting hartnell and Johanson paired together I would expect the return to be something like Jones, Wilson, jarnkrok,+ picks/prospects (basing this idea off of the unusual lines for practice. Wilson centering the second line as a placeholder and fisher pushed to the third with jarnkrok). Cbj would gain some cap space for the short term which would be very helpful

 

[glenngineer]

Clarkson after this year has 4 years remaining, $5.5 million cap hit. Next two seasons actual salaries are $7 million a piece. No chance this team takes that on, not even for RyJo.

 

[Viqsi]

Please read the post before speaking. That is the entire problem with most here. You have tunnel vision.

"If we trade for Johansen and Hartnell we'll be sorry."

"Why?"

"We're taking on a cap dump."

"Hartnell isn't a cap dump."

"I wasn't talking about Hartnell"

yeah, okay.


Also, we're not using Johansen to pay for a Clarkson contract move. That would be absurdly counterproductive.

 

[Infinite Jest]

Clarkson after this year has 4 years remaining, $5.5 million cap hit. Next two seasons actual salaries are $7 million a piece. No chance this team takes that on, not even for RyJo.

No one is taking Clarkson. The only reason that CLB did is because they were stuck paying Horton even though he will never play again.

 

[glenngineer]

I think calling Hartnell a cap dump is more a worry for the future. While he's still playing well now guys who play a physical game like he does normally have an exponential fall to their game once they hit a certain point. When that point happens is anyone's guess and maybe he plays out his contract and is still putting up good numbers. Every player has that point, some sooner than others. No one knows so I think it's viewed as a cap dump in the future.

 

[Scoresberg]

Gotta agree with Byrd here I don't think they are going to give RyJo and Hartnell UNLESS we give them Jones, Wilson/Smith and a prospect/pick. I'd rather do a Jones for RyJo deal straight up, I dislike Hartnell's contract and he is already 33yrs old.

They'd obviously get a little cap relief by acquiring Willy for Hartnell. They have severe cap troubles coming up, not even sure that they would get RyJo to sign.

 

[NSH615]

I think calling Hartnell a cap dump is more a worry for the future. While he's still playing well now guys who play a physical game like he does normally have an exponential fall to their game once they hit a certain point. When that point happens is anyone's guess and maybe he plays out his contract and is still putting up good numbers. Every player has that point, some sooner than others. No one knows so I think it's viewed as a cap dump in the future.

And when it happens he will be the new Nystrom.

 

[glenngineer]

And when it happens he will be the new Nystrom.

Sad thing is Hartnell is older than Nystrom already.

 

[Viqsi]

I think calling Hartnell a cap dump is more a worry for the future. While he's still playing well now guys who play a physical game like he does normally have an exponential fall to their game once they hit a certain point. When that point happens is anyone's guess and maybe he plays out his contract and is still putting up good numbers. Every player has that point, some sooner than others. No one knows so I think it's viewed as a cap dump in the future.

Cool. In that case we'll take back Future Cap Dump Mike Fisher.

However you want to play it, he's not a cap dump.

 

[PredsHabs]

"If we trade for Johansen and Hartnell we'll be sorry."

"Why?"

"We're taking on a cap dump."

"Hartnell isn't a cap dump."

"I wasn't talking about Hartnell"

yeah, okay.


Also, we're not using Johansen to pay for a Clarkson contract move. That would be absurdly counterproductive.

"The big salary name they will be including will not be Hartnell. And if Poile takes that cap dump lord help this team."

This is actually what he said. He said nothing about Hartnell being a cap dump.

 

[Infinite Jest]

And when it happens he will be the new Nystrom.

Who cares if you have to stick out 1-2 years of a bad contract? Hartnell doesn't make that much more than Wilson who we're paying to be awful this year, same thing more or less.

 

[Infinite Jest]

"The big salary name they will be including will not be Hartnell. And if Poile takes that cap dump lord help this team."

This is actually what he said. He said nothing about Hartnell being a cap dump.

No, she has it right. He started saying we'd be sorry if we traded for Hartnell then backed out and insinuated it was Clarkson. Typical.

 

[Viqsi]

"The big salary name they will be including will not be Hartnell. And if Poile takes that cap dump lord help this team."

This actually what he said. He said nothing about Hartnell being a cap dump.

When one is asked "why" in response to the following:

Any trade for Johanson and Hartnell and we are gonna be sorry.............

and replies with something that radically changes the trade, it's generally fair to point out that the question is being dodged.

He didn't say "We won't get Johansen and Hartnell, we'd get Johansen and Clarkson". He said "We will be sorry if we trade for Johansen and Hartnell". Those are VERY different statements. If he meant the former all along, that's one thing and I can understand that position... but that is not what he said at first, and so folks not unreasonably presumed he was still talking about Hartnell.

And normally I'd just leave it be, except he followed up with a snide "well you should read the post first; all you guys have tunnel vision" comment, which is extremely inappropriate - particularly as it was his bait-and-switch that caused the confusion to begin with.

 

[glenngineer]

Cool. In that case we'll take back Future Cap Dump Mike Fisher.

However you want to play it, he's not a cap dump.

So you're guaranteeing he'll be playing at the level he is now in 3 years? OK Nostradamus. You should become a GM with those powers.

His cap hit isn't bad, his salary isn't bad except he'll be a physical type forward who will be 36 at the end of his deal? Remember this guy Todd Bertuzzi who was really great and then fell off the map? How about John LeClair? I love Hartnell, always have. I'm just trying to look at it realistically.

And yes, at this point I'd view Mike Fisher as a cap dump too for what he's being paid and what he's producing. If he were in the role of a #3 center I'd be fine with him for another year but he is not producing offensively.

You can like your own players but you also have to be realistic about what they'll be worth.

We all wonder what will happen when Weber starts to age. Will he still put up decent numbers and eat minutes or will he turn in to a solid second pairing guy with a strong veteran presence or will he fade in to oblivion. No one knows. I hope he fades like Rob Blake did. Played pretty well until about age 36/37 then slowed down a bit but was still pretty productive until the age of 40. That's my hope anyway. At this point I have no clue what toll the game has taken on Weber physically, mentally and emotionally. Maybe he's a phenom like Jagr and Chelios but more than likely not. Duncan Keith and Ryan Suter on the other hand may play well in to their 40's. One never knows.

 

[PredsHabs]

When one is asked "why" in response to the following:

and replies with something that radically changes the trade, it's generally fair to point out that the question is being dodged.

He didn't say "We won't get Johansen and Hartnell, we'd get Johansen and Clarkson". He said "We will be sorry if we trade for Johansen and Hartnell". Those are VERY different statements. If he meant the former all along, that's one thing and I can understand that position... but that is not what he said at first, and so folks not unreasonably presumed he was still talking about Hartnell.

This folk didn't because I actually went back and read the post. I agree he didn't answer my question but that doesn't mean he considers Hartnell a cap dump but that is just me doing the same as you presuming.

 

[Byrddog]

"If we trade for Johansen and Hartnell we'll be sorry."

"Why?"

"We're taking on a cap dump."

"Hartnell isn't a cap dump."

"I wasn't talking about Hartnell"

yeah, okay.


Also, we're not using Johansen to pay for a Clarkson contract move. That would be absurdly counterproductive.

If you guys read my first post I said we were not getting Hartnell.

THE OFFER WILL BE JOHANSON AND CLARKSON FOR JONES. That is what I heard. I never said Hartnell was the cap dump. The cap dump is Clarkson.

And yes this will be a nightmare if Poile does it.

 

[Byrddog]

Some of you foilks would **** up a wet dream

 

[Viqsi]

So you're guaranteeing he'll be playing at the level he is now in 3 years? OK Nostradamus. You should become a GM with those powers.

His cap hit isn't bad, his salary isn't bad except he'll be a physical type forward who will be 36 at the end of his deal? Remember this guy Todd Bertuzzi who was really great and then fell off the map? How about John LeClair? I love Hartnell, always have. I'm just trying to look at it realistically.

And yes, at this point I'd view Mike Fisher as a cap dump too for what he's being paid and what he's producing. If he were in the role of a #3 center I'd be fine with him for another year but he is not producing offensively.

You can like your own players but you also have to be realistic about what they'll be worth.

I'm well aware of the potential complications. I'm just tired of folks dismissing Hartnell as a valueless cap dump because of a hypothetical regression that might not happen while he's on pace for a 30-goal 60-point season. Given the option we'd really rather keep him, but folks keep asking as though he's a throwaway asset. It's like how so many folks assume that they're doing Nashville a "favor" by offering proposals in which they take on Weber's contract.

 

[Pred303]

enough infighting, Poile just make us a good deal. Give us a reason to be excited again

 

[Infinite Jest]

If you guys read my first post I said we were not getting Hartnell.

THE OFFER WILL BE JOHANSON AND CLARKSON FOR JONES. That is what I heard. I never said Hartnell was the cap dump. The cap dump is Clarkson.

And yes this will be a nightmare if Poile does it.

Literally your exact first post: "Any trade for Johanson and Hartnell and we are gonna be sorry............."

Lol at "that is what I heard" like you have some secret Preds connection. You've certainly been dialed in on all of their past moves, hah.

 

[PredsHabs]

enough infighting, Poile just make us a good deal. Give us a reason to be excited again

I agree.

I am sorry if I come off as a jerk.

I almost choked I read your post as "made" not "make".

 

[Viqsi]

If you guys read my first post I said we were not getting Hartnell.

THE OFFER WILL BE JOHANSON AND CLARKSON FOR JONES. That is what I heard. I never said Hartnell was the cap dump. The cap dump is Clarkson.

And yes this will be a nightmare if Poile does it.

Which first post? The first I saw was this:

Any trade for Johanson and Hartnell and we are gonna be sorry.............

At this point I understand that your intent was "we'll be sorry because it won't be Hartnell coming back"; it was just phrased poorly. And getting snappy about it when confusion inevitably resulted doesn't help.

And yeah, I completely agree that Clarkson-to-Nashville would be a nightmare for the Preds, no matter what form it takes. I just don't think it likely because that would be poor asset management on the part of the Jackets to use Johansen as leverage for getting rid of that contract.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

If the Jackets were willing, I'd do Jones + Wilson for RyJo and Hartnell for sure. I'd love to get a bottom D for a pick if possible.

 

[Drake744]

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