The demise of the Maple Leafs: Top Ten

[ClassicHockey]

Parent

Bernie Parent's wife was from Philly and that was a major reason why he forced the trade. Of course, the way he was treated by Ballard before he left for the WHA didn't help.

The Parent trade was due to Ballard also, Bernie was so pissed off at the Leafs he forced the trade to happen. That's they way things were back then, the minute a player got to the point where Harold had to give him more money he got rid the guy.

 

[Bring Back Bucky]

Story is at the bottomAnother account


"pedophilia" is overstating it, statutory is more accurate.

Unless of course it's your thirteen year old daughter!! If it was mine Dougie would have needed a quicker ticket out of town! (presuming guilt, which as your post reveals was not proven)

 

[ClassicHockey]

Ballard

Ballard had nothing to do with Cheevers leaving as that was years before Ballard had any influence in the hockey area. When Ballard assumed the team after Stafford Smythe's death, Ballard thought he was in too much debt to try and pay the higher salaries. That was discovered years later. Even if Ballard had the money, he may not have kept all the players anyways.

I agree with a lot of those ones. At the top of the list as always is Ballard. He made it very personal with trades. If a guy was religious, or if a guy went to the WHA he'd let him go for the saving of $5000. Many players have mentioned that it was as if it was more important for him to be on the front of a newspaper then to see the team win.

Letting a Hall of Famer like Gerry Cheevers go didnt help either in '62. But the main thing that had to hurt was the Parent trade. The Leafs trade him and then he goes on to win two Cups the following year with Philly. Also two Conn Smythe Trophies.

But Ballard is the centre of it all. Trading Lanny away only because Sittler wouldnt wave his no trade clause was prepostrous. What an evil, evil man he was!

 

[Oilers1*]

Its amazing to me that the Gilmour civil suit is still being brought up.

Some people will do anythign for a little controversy, I guess.

 

[Hasbro]

Its amazing to me that the Gilmour civil suit is still being brought up.

Some people will do anythign for a little controversy, I guess.

I can't redall him being in any off ice trouble since then.

 

[ClassicHockey]

Ballard & Religion

He was pretty stupid too. After Jim Gregory drafted Doug Jarvis in the NHL Amateur draft, it was thought that the Leafs picked a pretty good player and face-off specialist. A little while after that, Sam Pollock of Montreal phones Ballard and asks him if he wants to keep that 'religious kid'. Of course, Ballard said if you want him you can have him and took back the forgettable Greg Hubick.

I agree with a lot of those ones. At the top of the list as always is Ballard. He made it very personal with trades. If a guy was religious, or if a guy went to the WHA he'd let him go for the saving of $5000. Many players have mentioned that it was as if it was more important for him to be on the front of a newspaper then to see the team win.

Letting a Hall of Famer like Gerry Cheevers go didnt help either in '62. But the main thing that had to hurt was the Parent trade. The Leafs trade him and then he goes on to win two Cups the following year with Philly. Also two Conn Smythe Trophies.

But Ballard is the centre of it all. Trading Lanny away only because Sittler wouldnt wave his no trade clause was prepostrous. What an evil, evil man he was!

 

[John Flyers Fan]

The Parent trade was due to Ballard also, Bernie was so pissed off at the Leafs he forced the trade to happen. That's they way things were back then, the minute a player got to the point where Harold had to give him more money he got rid the guy.

Actually Bernie was in the WHA at the time, he wasn't even playing for the Leafs. He credits a ton of is success to his time in Toronto where he got to play with his idol Jaques Plante.

 

[ClassicHockey]

Expansion draft

I wrote in another post how bizarre the Leafs' moves were on expansion draft day and they had a profound effect on the demise on the Leafs.

Regarding Baun & Shack, the Leafs missed them more than it is realized. At the time, the Bruins were initiating a (planned) aggressive type of hockey with larger playersand they Flyers took it to extremes years later. The Leafs were going the other way for some reason. Hockey skill wise, Baun and Shack weren't missed but as aggressive players, they were sorely missed, considering the trend in the NHL at that time.

By the way, I heard Dave Schultz on radio yesterday. He was asked about his past and how he played. Schultz must be delusional now as the player he said he was had no resemblance to reality.

Thanks. Doesn't seem they were hit any harder than the other original six. They definitely lost some depth Kelly and Sawchuk were near the end of their careers and it seems like they reacquired Baun and Shack.

Parent for Favell hurt though.

 

[ClassicHockey]

Plante

Interesting about Plante and Parent. Bernie Parent may have been Plante's only friend on the team. Plante was one of those 'off the wall' guys that rubbed his teammates the wrong way. According to his teammates on the Leafs at the time, they viewed Plante as someone who was liable to snitch on various escapades to the Leafs management. The Leaf players had much more confidence in Parent in goal than Plante. In fact, it is their contention that Plante dictated the schedule of who would play what team and that Plante made sure he had the soft games. The Leaf players also mentioned that Plante received other special treatment including trivial things like demanding the Leafs pay for all his new dishes in his new apartment. Very strange fellow. They laugh about it all now.

Actually Bernie was in the WHA at the time, he wasn't even playing for the Leafs. He credits a ton of is success to his time in Toronto where he got to play with his idol Jaques Plante.

 

[Psycho Papa Joe]

If you look up 'pathetic' in the dictionary, this thread would be there.

So would be your avatar.

 

[Morbo]

So would be your avatar.

Yours too.

 

[Psycho Papa Joe]

Yours too.

Yours three.

 

[Morbo]

Yours three.

Uh, no.

 

[mooseOAK*]

Actually Bernie was in the WHA at the time, he wasn't even playing for the Leafs. He credits a ton of is success to his time in Toronto where he got to play with his idol Jaques Plante.

Even though he was in the WHA Parent was still the NHL property of the Leafs.

 

[John Flyers Fan]

Even though he was in the WHA Parent was still the NHL property of the Leafs.

I'm aware of that.

 

[chooch*]

as I have never felt obliged to explain myself to you

whats this then

 

[Bring Back Bucky]

whats this then

Forgot your pills again?? Get an official Flower Power Pill Dispenser. It's designed principally for Viagara, but will work with others as well..

 

[mcphee]

I'm surprised no one's resorted to 'I know you are but what am I ' on this thread. Or 'mind your own beeswax'. The early to mid 60's Leafs were renowned for late season trades to give themselves a spark for the playoffs. Imlach was notorious for trusting veteran players. He lefty the system thin, then the org. went weird on expansion day, jackass Stafford Smythe yielded to even bigger jackass Harold Ballard and waddaya get ? It's always seemed that every step forward's followed by one back. Funny, what JFJ did last March was what Imlach did to win cups. I like Ferguson though, actually saw him play a minor league game, how's that for no relevance ? I don't know, someone in Toronto can speak better to this, but it seems that there's a feeling that because of the team's place as a premier franchise,and a moneymaker, a cup is due, which of course it is. The team then seems to react out of desperation, never really investing where it counts, in player development.

 

[salzy]

I agree with a lot of those ones. At the top of the list as always is Ballard. He made it very personal with trades. If a guy was religious, or if a guy went to the WHA he'd let him go for the saving of $5000. Many players have mentioned that it was as if it was more important for him to be on the front of a newspaper then to see the team win.

Letting a Hall of Famer like Gerry Cheevers go didnt help either in '62. But the main thing that had to hurt was the Parent trade. The Leafs trade him and then he goes on to win two Cups the following year with Philly.

Wow, I've never heard THAT before! That has to be, BY FAR, the most impressive individual accomplishment in the history of hockey.

 

[mydnyte]

Teacher's Pension Fund ...and not signing Gretzky because the 4.5 mil was deemed too expensive by the 'board' (even though it's what the Leafs offered and he had accepted ...or was it less?)

 

[Zopust]

The pedophilia scandal has nothing to do with Doug Gilmour's statutory **** allegations.

It was the Maple Leaf Gardens scandal, where there was a ring involving George Hannah, John Paul Roby and Gordon Stuckless, a former equipment manager.

 

[timlap]

Just to be clear, the paper bag incident with Roger Neilson never actually happened. To me that's not a low point, just a funny story.

Trading Lanny McDonald probably gets my vote for the all time low, as it was apparently done to get at Sittler, who has a no trade clause. That was a young Leafs team who were showing real promise. The 80s might have been very different.

 

[ClassicHockey]

It was a lot less than 4.5 million. I'm sure of that.

In the big picture, the Teacher's Pension Fund has a minimal effect on the Leafs fortunes. The Leafs in the last few years had plenty of money to spend on free agents.

Jim Gregory had built the Leaf team in the late 70's and Punch Imlach came back to ruin things for the 80's.

I will say though that the team that Imlach tore apart was not as great as many people believe. They were barely a .500 club in Roger Neilson's and Jim Gregory's last year before Imlach came back.

Teacher's Pension Fund ...and not signing Gretzky because the 4.5 mil was deemed too expensive by the 'board' (even though it's what the Leafs offered and he had accepted ...or was it less?)

 

[Lowetide]

It all started after the 1967 Cup with the sale of the minor league team(s) and the shoddy treatment of big Frank (by Punch). Smythe and Ballard were too weird for words and allowed a dictator to run wild with the roster.

Some of his trades after 1967 (he gave up alot to get Ullman and Henderson, and the Pilote trade was madness) were "shore up the roster for one more run" type deals when in reality that team was too old the moment the 1967 Cup run ended.

After that, the Leafs always had lots of talent but no real direction under Ballard, and then wandered aimlessly for a time. They have had a nice big window of opportunity in the last ten years or so but haven't gotten it done.

They could have, and appear to be a well run organization, but there are cracks and challenges. I'm not going to bet against them, but we'll see. If they ever do win, God help those of us who aren't Leafs fans because Leafs fans will emerge from every outhouse, henhouse and farm house across this country and party for a week.

 

[Ogopogo*]

It all started after the 1967 Cup with the sale of the minor league team(s) and the shoddy treatment of big Frank (by Punch). Smythe and Ballard were too weird for words and allowed a dictator to run wild with the roster.

Some of his trades after 1967 (he gave up alot to get Ullman and Henderson, and the Pilote trade was madness) were "shore up the roster for one more run" type deals when in reality that team was too old the moment the 1967 Cup run ended.

After that, the Leafs always had lots of talent but no real direction under Ballard, and then wandered aimlessly for a time. They have had a nice big window of opportunity in the last ten years or so but haven't gotten it done.

They could have, and appear to be a well run organization, but there are cracks and challenges. I'm not going to bet against them, but we'll see. If they ever do win, God help those of us who aren't Leafs fans because Leafs fans will emerge from every outhouse, henhouse and farm house across this country and party for a week.

The Leafs appear to be a well run organization?

With the moves Ferguson has made, it seems they are doing exactly what the 1968 edition was doing. I don't see a Leafs Cup parade coming any time soon.