Pre-Game Talk: The All Purpose Off Day Thread | Schultz, Murray Practice with Team

[Andy99]

Stat of the day courtesy of Jess Marshall:
Pens current bottom six have 9 goals amongst them, 4 of those by Rust alone.
By contrast, CBJ bottom six has 22 goals and Caps bottom six have 15. This shows IMO that there is absolutely no reason for the team not to give Di Pauli, Simon etc a chance on this roster.

 

[Pens x]

Stat of the day courtesy of Jess Marshall:
Pens current bottom six have 9 goals amongst them, 4 of those by Rust alone.
By contrast, CBJ bottom six has 22 goals and Caps bottom six have 15. This shows IMO that there is absolutely no reason for the team not to give Di Pauli, Simon etc a chance on this roster.

Thanks for this stat. Someone just called me out today on this site saying our 4th line isn’t any worse than 90% of the teams.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

Thanks for this stat. Someone just called me out today on this site saying our 4th line isn’t any worse than 90% of the teams.

Bottom 6 is more than just the 4th line. Wanna bet that most of those goals came from a teams 3rd line?

 

[JackFr]

I was supposed to be working the Penguins' event at the Hockey Hall of Fame tonight but they cut down the staff

 

[Pens x]

I was supposed to be working the Penguins' event at the Hockey Hall of Fame tonight but they cut down the staff

That’s too bad. What are they doing at the hockey hall of fame tonight? I hope Sully didn’t make Cole sit at the hotel while the team attended. He had to stay behind to guard the luggage of McKegg, Rowney, Reaves and Kuhnhackl.

 

[Ogrezilla]

That’s too bad. What are they doing at the hockey hall of fame tonight? I hope Sully didn’t make Cole sit at the hotel while the team attended. He had to stay behind to guard the luggage of McKegg, Rowney, Reaves and Kuhnhackl.

can you please for the love of god explain how Cole sitting has anything to do with McKegg, Rowney, Reaves, or Kuhnackl? Please. You keep talking about it like it's even remotely relevant.

 

[JackFr]

That’s too bad. What are they doing at the hockey hall of fame tonight? I hope Sully didn’t make Cole sit at the hotel while the team attended. He had to stay behind to guard the luggage of McKegg, Rowney, Reaves and Kuhnhackl.

Cole was at the cool table with Sid and Geno, so things don't seem too cold.

It was just a normal team dinner after they donated the championship ring. Apparently Sully was going to have it cancelled but the win over the weekend put it back on.

 

[Gurglesons]

Stat of the day courtesy of Jess Marshall:
Pens current bottom six have 9 goals amongst them, 4 of those by Rust alone.
By contrast, CBJ bottom six has 22 goals and Caps bottom six have 15. This shows IMO that there is absolutely no reason for the team not to give Di Pauli, Simon etc a chance on this roster.

I don’t know how people can honestly sit back and say that bottom six depth isn’t one of our major issues right now, if not the most.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

 

[ColePens]

I don’t know how people can honestly sit back and say that bottom six depth isn’t one of our major issues right now, if not the most.

Ummm... do you not read? It's been talked about as an issue from July 1st. Hell it was talked about before July 1st if Cullen retired and Bones went elsewhere. Biggest issue? Nay. Since you don't read too much around here, I'll re-write it for you.

#1 Team Focus (preparation/battle/urgency/etc): #1 issue. There is no argument. The team knows it's an issue and fails to fix it. They come out too flat and don't have that hunger.

#2 Sid/Letang: Both are starting to come around and if they stay at their high level, we walk through the season as a playoff team. I didn't say he'd be a Cup contender. We need to fix our bottom 6 to be a Cup contender. But we walk into the playoffs.

#3 Bottom 6: LITERALLY has been discussed all offseason and until today. If you seriously think for one second it hasn't, you are out of your damn mind.

 

[Gurglesons]

Ummm... do you not read? It's been talked about as an issue from July 1st. Hell it was talked about before July 1st if Cullen retired and Bones went elsewhere. Biggest issue? Nay. Since you don't read too much around here, I'll re-write it for you.

#1 Team Focus (preparation/battle/urgency/etc): #1 issue. There is no argument. The team knows it's an issue and fails to fix it. They come out too flat and don't have that hunger.

#2 Sid/Letang: Both are starting to come around and if they stay at their high level, we walk through the season as a playoff team. I didn't say he'd be a Cup contender. We need to fix our bottom 6 to be a Cup contender. But we walk into the playoffs.

#3 Bottom 6: LITERALLY has been discussed all offseason and until today. If you seriously think for one second it hasn't, you are out of your damn mind.

So you still are trying to make it "not that big of an issue", in your argument that you've said it isn't one of if not our biggest issue?

Our bottom 6 being a offensive black hole could very easily be the reason we are a #8 seed. Like, we currently are..

Canes have to beat Vancouver and the Cats and we've got three teams in a one point spread for # 8.

And we just lost our # 1 goalie.

 

[The GM]

That’s too bad. What are they doing at the hockey hall of fame tonight? I hope Sully didn’t make Cole sit at the hotel while the team attended. He had to stay behind to guard the luggage of McKegg, Rowney, Reaves and Kuhnhackl.

No one messes with the pens luggage anymore now that reaves is on the team.

 

[ColePens]

So you still are trying to make it "not that big of an issue", in your argument that you've said it isn't one of if not our biggest issue?

Our bottom 6 being a offensive black hole could very easily be the reason we are a #8 seed. Like, we currently are..

Canes have to beat Vancouver and the Cats and we've got three teams in a one point spread for # 8.

And we just lost our # 1 goalie.

You don't read a single damn thing. Honestly. It's pretty pathetic. Nobody EVER said it was not a big issue. We all knew we aren't winning a Cup with our bottom 6. What people told you from day 1 was wait and see what the lineup is at the deadline.

Boy.. you really struggle at this comprehending thing. I'm reading every user's post and I see countless users saying this same thing.

 

[Gurglesons]

You don't read a single damn thing. Honestly. It's pretty pathetic. Nobody EVER said it was not a big issue. We all knew we aren't winning a Cup with our bottom 6. What people told you from day 1 was wait and see what the lineup is at the deadline.

Boy.. you really struggle at this comprehending thing. I'm reading every user's post and I see countless users saying this same thing.

Whatever ColePens. You’re always right.

Honestly, with you as one of the mods on here it makes perfect sense why everyone is so stubborn and reactive around here.

 

[ColePens]

Whatever ColePens. You’re always right.

Honestly, with you as one of the mods on here it makes perfect sense why everyone is so stubborn and reactive around here.

Or you fail to read and understand what everyone says and throw hissy fits all summer. Either one.

Honestly and the patience argument is so easy to understand. Example: Fans said be patient with Bones struggles through the season because he delivers in the playoffs. Fans stayed patient. Fans ignored the bad bad bad stretches of #13. It paid off. He was spectacular just like his history was known for.

So people said basically the same thing w/ JR. JR proved over the last couple years he understood our identity and understood what made our team run. SULLY says a million times the Pens are at their best playing 4 lines. So fans, in the summer, are obviously concerned about our bottom 6 and roster turnover, but say stay patient. You and pensx throw hissy fits and won't stop, won't try to reason, won't try to comprehend.... and you wonder why people are hard to deal with?

Like others have said. I find everyone around here VERY easy to converse with. We have some of the best hockey minds on HF. Some incredible users. And some very amazing users who dedicate time to make this place better. Your method of posting does not even come close to that. Mostly pensx, but the lack of comprehension is beyond me.

 

[Ogrezilla]

 

[Gurglesons]

Or you fail to read and understand what everyone says and throw hissy fits all summer. Either one.

Honestly and the patience argument is so easy to understand. Example: Fans said be patient with Bones struggles through the season because he delivers in the playoffs. Fans stayed patient. Fans ignored the bad bad bad stretches of #13. It paid off. He was spectacular just like his history was known for.

So people said basically the same thing w/ JR. JR proved over the last couple years he understood our identity and understood what made our team run. SULLY says a million times the Pens are at their best playing 4 lines. So fans, in the summer, are obviously concerned about our bottom 6 and roster turnover, but say stay patient. You and pensx throw hissy fits and won't stop, won't try to reason, won't try to comprehend.... and you wonder why people are hard to deal with?

Like others have said. I find everyone around here VERY easy to converse with. We have some of the best hockey minds on HF. Some incredible users. And some very amazing users who dedicate time to make this place better. Your method of posting does not even come close to that. Mostly pensx, but the lack of comprehension is beyond me.

You’re trying to act like people were not fine going into the season with McKegg and Rowney as our centers and didn’t say we would make the playoffs regardless.

I disagreed with your view points this summer and I’m told I’m throwing a “hissy fit”. Even though our season has pretty much played out exactly how I predicted. We stumbled, made a reactionary move and now have two injuries that is resulting in us supposedly trying to sell off Cole.

I’m patient, I think we have a championship caliber roster, I like Sheahan. That doesn’t suddenly make our bad decisions in the summer not bad?

It is just like the Neal debate in the salary cap thread. Neal’s bad penalties don’t suddenly
make him a terrible player. They are an issue, but you weigh your options and hope the path you choose works out. Right now, our summer didn’t work out.

We are at the line of not making the playoffs right now. Our goalie and our second line center are injured and you’re still acting like the only thing we need is to get Sid going and to “get the team to focus” and we will make the playoffs no problem.

That doesn’t mean I don’t believe we will make the playoffs, just I can’t stand how people like yourself say we are making it regardless and anyone that
disagrees with you is throwing a hissy fit.

 

[The GM]

What’s rob Klinkhammer up to these days? Maybe he can give us an injection of skill and energy.

 

[brewski420]

You’re trying to act like people were not fine going into the season with McKegg and Rowney as our centers and didn’t say we would make the playoffs regardless.

I disagreed with your view points this summer and I’m told I’m throwing a “hissy fit”. Even though our season has pretty much played out exactly how I predicted. We stumbled, made a reactionary move and now have two injuries that is resulting in us supposedly trying to sell off Cole.

I’m patient, I think we have a championship caliber roster, I like Sheahan. That doesn’t suddenly make our bad decisions in the summer not bad?

It is just like the Neal debate in the salary cap thread. Neal’s bad penalties don’t suddenly
make him a terrible player. They are an issue, but you weigh your options and hope the path you choose works out. Right now, our summer didn’t work out.

We are at the line of not making the playoffs right now. Our goalie and our second line center are injured and you’re still acting like the only thing we need is to get Sid going and to “get the team to focus” and we will make the playoffs no problem.

That doesn’t mean I don’t believe we will make the playoffs, just I can’t stand how people like yourself say we are making it regardless and anyone that
disagrees with you is throwing a hissy fit.

I don't follow that advocating patience is the same as saying we will make the playoffs regardless. I don't recall anyone claiming that.

 

[Gurglesons]

I don't follow that advocating patience is the same as saying we will make the playoffs regardless. I don't recall anyone claiming that.

There has been widespread insistence that we would make the playoffs regardless of our bottom six. Not to mention, how we are the deepest team in the league, and every team would trade for our roster.

ColePens insinuated we just needed Crosby and Letang to play at their usual level to make the playoffs right above my post.

 

[brewski420]

There has been widespread insistence that we would make the playoffs regardless of our bottom six. Not to mention, how we are the deepest team in the league, and every team would trade for our roster.

ColePens insinuated we just needed Crosby and Letang to play at their usual level to make the playoffs right above my post.

He listed that as one of several things needed including more from bottom 6. He is right and having the patience to believe that those things will be taken care of without full panic is all anyone has been saying.

 

[Gurglesons]

He listed that as one of several things needed including more from bottom 6. He is right and having the patience to believe that those things will be taken care of without full panic is all anyone has been saying.

I’m far from in full panic. I just disagree with the assessment.

Sitting with your head in the sand and not realizing where the Penguins are at right now is also extremely short sighted.

I don’t panic about anything the Penguins do. They are a hockey team. I just get annoyed by people being over confident about a team and then acting like I was in full out panic or whining because I pointed out what would likely happen to this team at the beginning of this season, this summer, or just straight up wrong about a player (Bonino, Letang, etc.)

The same thing is happening right now. I’m pointing out that our depth scoring is atrocious and a HUGE issue and people are turning around and saying that Crosby and focus is the main problem.

I guess the point is, what is the point of having a discussion people that say be patient, he didn’t have options, etc. when they aren’t willing to admit to other points or view until they’re painfully obvious.

 

[WayneSid9987]

Naw it was quite clear JR still had and still has surgery to perform.
The "we're still making the PO's easily" came from Sid, Phil, Geno, Sheary, Horny, Letang, Schultz going at a nice clip. Big expectations for Jake and all that ='s PO's pretty easily.
It was more expecting that^ and wait for better things to shake loose that JR can make the roster a contender again..
The slow starts from the core guys mentioned put more of a highlight on the lack of bottom 6 scoring.

 

[Peat]

I claimed we'd make the play-offs pretty much regardless and I'm fairly sure I wasn't the only one.

I also stand by that, even with this pretty gross start.

I've also said that the top 6 and Letang have been our major problem and I stand by that too. I accept that might be a topic for debate but having your number 1 dman rack up -15 in 17 games has always got to be a fairly major part of a team's problems. Ditto the scoring drought we went through, and I still don't get the argument that you blame a scoring drought more on the bottom 6 than the top 6.

Is the bottom 6 a problem? Sure. Just for a long time, it wasn't the biggest one. Was there always a good chance it was going to be a problem? Sure. We all knew that when Rutherford decided he'd wait into the season to get bottom 6 centres at a price he liked. We also knew there was a chance Reaves might be an awkward style fit in the bottom 6.

And here comes the patience thing - I'm happy for Rutherford to go into the season with an experimental bottom 6 and work out solutions through the season. I will wait and see how it works before judging. In general, I'd rather a GM wait and see what options shakes loose and emerge from the AHL rather than overpaying before the season starts. We knew it might be a problem and said so, but Rutherford's approach seemed reasonable so we decided to see how it worked out.

Honestly, right now, with Letang and Sid looking like they've turned a corner, and Jarry doing decent as a back-up goaltender, the bottom 6 probably is our biggest issue. That sub 70% PK in the last 7 games is super ugly and damaging. McKegg and Reaves are averaging less than 7 minutes a night. Other than whichever of Rust and Sheary counts as a bottom 6 forward this day, Hagelin is the only of them with a point. Okay and Sheahan, but I guess his match-ups and usage just got a lot nicer with Geno out. They've all got ugly +/- fwiw. If they could just play the other guys to a draw like they were doing earlier in the season, we'd be in business. They aren't, so we're not.

It is up to Rutherford and Sully to sort that. Both have given public utterances indicating they believe it should be sorted. Again, I'm choosing to be patient and see how it works out. It helps that both have earned my trust.

Last year, at this time, there was still a lot of gum flapping about how Rutherford failing to move Flower when he could was going to cost us big. End of the season, Flower is an integral part of the repeat and the cost is minor. That taught me a lot about patient judgments. And really, that's not even about trusting Rutherford as much as it is acknowledging we're not fantastic at predicting how the season is gonna go.

The argument for patience - its not about blind trust or a belief that everything's great from the off. Just that's a lot of options and a lot of hockey, and the best time to judge how they went is when its done.

And if people were more interested in understanding an argument than winning it, I probably wouldn't have had to type all that.

 

[EightyOne]

Bottom 6 is more than just the 4th line. Wanna bet that most of those goals came from a teams 3rd line?

True, but even if you include our third line and the other teams' third lines, the Pens still lose that comparison. I get than Pens X specifically called out the 4th in what you were replying towards..but..man...splitting hairs really.

Again, the Pens have a ton of talent. Multiple scoring lines is cool. But as long as the 3rd-4th arent just getting undressed and bleeding goals---eh, whatever. Certainly not great for playoff hockey, but we arent in playoffs right now.