Teuvo Teravainen

[hawksfan50]

The timing stinks for retaining Shaw due to the Bickell contract..the overpayment for Kruger who is at best a 4th line C and pk guy and if that is $3 million for a guy who cannot even score a goal in about half a season of work and 7 playoff games then I cannot figure out this league anymore ...he did not have good+/-either...there are cheaper pk guys we could get instead. .. also bad timing becsuse of the Panarin bonus counting for next season ....and finally bad timong because of the Hossa albatross contract now maifesting as he provides less production value now at his age ...too bad ...might have kept Shaw if it had been 2017/18 and maybe dump Hossa off in expansion draft..Shaw had 14g and 20assists which is for starters a market value of $3.4 million but add in his strong playoff a 4G and 2a in just 6gp and his grit greasy goals factor and he is certainly worth a $4 million/yr ticket to some team that can afford it..We cannot ...so the issue is not can we keep Shaw. ..doubt it...but what can Shaw bring in a trade?

Of Stan is as desperate to make a bad a deal as in the Sharp+Johns deal ...a deal for garbage plus helping a division rival ...then will will get fleeced again..But at least we are not over a barrel in having to dump a known cap number...This will be a hockey trade for tge value Shaw brings and the signing team Getting
him will worry about what to pay him or we will get an offer sheet for him which should be a $4 million range ...To head that off (unless there are at least 2 offer sheets and the bidding drives prices up)the team most wanting him would probably just make a deal rather than face another bidder on the offer sheet...if one then comes in higher than they would pay they will get the benefit of higher compensation in better picks due to higher bid.


So I ask. .what will Shaw bring in a true value trade not a phoney over tge barrel trade like in the Sharp case?


My own view is a late first and a 4th or an early 2nd and a 3rd rounder.

 

[The Toews Era*]

The timing stinks for retaining Shaw due to the Bickell contract..the overpayment for Kruger who is at best a 4th line C and pk guy and if that is $3 million for a guy who cannot even score a goal in about half a season of work and 7 playoff games then I cannot figure out this league anymore ...he did not have good+/-either...there are cheaper pk guys we could get instead. .. also bad timing becsuse of the Panarin bonus counting for next season ....and finally bad timong because of the Hossa albatross contract now maifesting as he provides less production value now at his age ...too bad ...might have kept Shaw if it had been 2017/18 and maybe dump Hossa off in expansion draft..Shaw had 14g and 20assists which is for starters a market value of $3.4 million but add in his strong playoff a 4G and 2a in just 6gp and his grit greasy goals factor and he is certainly worth a $4 million/yr ticket to some team that can afford it..We cannot ...so the issue is not can we keep Shaw. ..doubt it...but what can Shaw bring in a trade?

Of Stan is as desperate to make a bad a deal as in the Sharp+Johns deal ...a deal for garbage plus helping a division rival ...then will will get fleeced again..But at least we are not over a barrel in having to dump a known cap number...This will be a hockey trade for tge value Shaw brings and the signing team Getting
him will worry about what to pay him or we will get an offer sheet for him which should be a $4 million range ...To head that off (unless there are at least 2 offer sheets and the bidding drives prices up)the team most wanting him would probably just make a deal rather than face another bidder on the offer sheet...if one then comes in higher than they would pay they will get the benefit of higher compensation in better picks due to higher bid.


So I ask. .what will Shaw bring in a true value trade not a phoney over tge barrel trade like in the Sharp case?


My own view is a late first and a 4th or an early 2nd and a 3rd rounder.

kruger was quite visibly one of our best players during the st louis series

 

[BobbyJet]

The timing stinks for retaining Shaw due to the Bickell contract..the overpayment for Kruger who is at best a 4th line C and pk guy and if that is $3 million for a guy who cannot even score a goal in about half a season of work and 7 playoff games then I cannot figure out this league anymore ...he did not have good+/-either...there are cheaper pk guys we could get instead. .. also bad timing becsuse of the Panarin bonus counting for next season ....and finally bad timong because of the Hossa albatross contract now maifesting as he provides less production value now at his age ...too bad ...might have kept Shaw if it had been 2017/18 and maybe dump Hossa off in expansion draft..Shaw had 14g and 20assists which is for starters a market value of $3.4 million but add in his strong playoff a 4G and 2a in just 6gp and his grit greasy goals factor and he is certainly worth a $4 million/yr ticket to some team that can afford it..We cannot ...so the issue is not can we keep Shaw. ..doubt it...but what can Shaw bring in a trade?

Of Stan is as desperate to make a bad a deal as in the Sharp+Johns deal ...a deal for garbage plus helping a division rival ...then will will get fleeced again..But at least we are not over a barrel in having to dump a known cap number...This will be a hockey trade for tge value Shaw brings and the signing team Getting
him will worry about what to pay him or we will get an offer sheet for him which should be a $4 million range ...To head that off (unless there are at least 2 offer sheets and the bidding drives prices up)the team most wanting him would probably just make a deal rather than face another bidder on the offer sheet...if one then comes in higher than they would pay they will get the benefit of higher compensation in better picks due to higher bid.


So I ask. .what will Shaw bring in a true value trade not a phoney over tge barrel trade like in the Sharp case?


My own view is a late first and a 4th or an early 2nd and a 3rd rounder.

Trade Kruger for a bucket of pucks and get him off the books. Shaw needs to stay.

 

[JaegerDice]

Trade Kruger for a bucket of pucks and get him off the books. Shaw needs to stay.

Nah.

 

[Marotte Marauder]

Trade Kruger for a bucket of pucks and get him off the books. Shaw needs to stay.

Nah.

If the choice is Shaw or Kruger, Shaw hands down.

 

[JaegerDice]

If the choice is Shaw or Kruger, Shaw hands down.

No way.

Kruger without question.

Few teams have a 4th line they can throw out against the top 2 lines of the opposition in the defensive end without fear.

And Krugs has made it work with a rotating cast of misfit toys over several seasons.

Shaw is a nice piece. You keep Kruger over him every day of every week, plus leap year days.

 

[Marotte Marauder]

No way.

Kruger without question.

Few teams have a 4th line they can throw out against the top 2 lines of the opposition in the defensive end without fear.

And Krugs has made it work with a rotating cast of misfit toys over several seasons.

Shaw is a nice piece. You keep Kruger over him every day of every week, plus leap year days.

4th lines take on many forms, don't be lulled into the feeling that what the Hawks do is the best or even only way to run a 4th line.

Kruger has a limited skill set that is replaced by pretty much any defensively aware forward.

 

[Any Colour You Like]

4th lines take on many forms, don't be lulled into the feeling that what the Hawks do is the best or even only way to run a 4th line.

Kruger has a limited skill set that is replaced by pretty much any defensively aware forward.

Kruger's one of the best faceoff, defensive, and PK forwards in the League. Shaw's just a guy (and Hartman has a higher ceiling).

 

[Marotte Marauder]

Kruger's one of the best faceoff, defensive, and PK forwards in the League. Shaw's just a guy (and Hartman has a higher ceiling).

Spare me with the higher ceiling jazz. Hartman this year @21 scored 35 points in AHL.

Shaw at 21 was on the Hawks 2013 Cup winner.

Many ceilings don't get reached.

IF Hartman attains Shaw's level of success it will have been a great draft pick, but until then, spare me.

 

[Kaners PPGs]

Either TT or AA need to be traded OR TT needs to be put on Toews's wing. Ideally, where do you want to play TT? We don't want him centering Kane/Panarin and he is not being given enough of an opportunity at 3rd line center with 3rd line wingers.

If you can trade TT for a comparable D prospect you do it without hesitation. If not, move TT to 1st line and Hossa to the 3rd line and run some lines like:

Toews, TT, Panik
Party
Kruger, Hossa, Flash
Ras, Desi, ? UGH

Trade Shaw for a 4/5 dman

Wow- this is ugly! Those trades hurt.

 

[BobbyJet]

4th lines take on many forms, don't be lulled into the feeling that what the Hawks do is the best or even only way to run a 4th line.

Kruger has a limited skill set that is replaced by pretty much any defensively aware forward.

I suppose if you say it often enough (I.E. We have the best 4th line in hockey... MK is the best 4th line center etc...) one can convince oneself that it is true.

The heart that Shaw brings to this team is not something easily replaced.

Kruger has a limited skill set that is replaced by pretty much any defensively aware forward.

Spot on.

 

[Blue Liner]

Spare me with the higher ceiling jazz. Hartman this year @21 scored 35 points in AHL.

Shaw at 21 was on the Hawks 2013 Cup winner.

Many ceilings don't get reached.

IF Hartman attains Shaw's level of success it will have been a great draft pick, but until then, spare me.

I don't disagree with your overall sentiment but using who was up or down at a certain age with this organization isn't really a talking point given the inconsistencies therein over the past few years.

Hartman is the more talented of the two and that's not really up for debate. But being a successful NHL'er and filling a certain role is more than just a talent thing, as we all well know. Hartman has yet to show he can fill that role with success, but also hasn't shown that he definitively can't; small sample size. Jury is out, but he has some proving to do.

I think he can do it, and that's taking nothing away from Shaw, whatsoever. I like Shaw a lot, but he's probably about to get massively overpaid for what he actually brings to a team, which is an important role but not one that is necessarily worth what the market may dictate for a cap-strapped team like the Blackhawks.

It's also worth noting that Shaw only had something around 15-20 points each of his AHL seasons. I don't tend to use AHL points as a major barometer for NHL projection, personally. You consider it and add it to the evaluation pile, but it's far from a be all end all.

EDIT: Shaw played less AHL games those seasons, so fairness given to that point. My original thoughts still stand, however.

 

[Hawkaholic]

Kruger's one of the best faceoff, defensive, and PK forwards in the League. Shaw's just a guy (and Hartman has a higher ceiling).

Shaw is just a guy? Do some people even watch the games?

 

[hawksfan50]

Nobody will massively overpay Shaw...but the point is at a 34 point regular season in today's NHL this equates alone to a $3.4 million contract...add tge grit and grease element and his good playoffs scoring this season and it bumps towards $4 million per...If this is overpay compare to Johnny $10.5 million and his only 58 point season which my math says is way below double the production of Shaw and even less a differential in the pkayoffs points..So asking if Shaw will be overpaid at close to or at $4 million is a big guffaw question compared to asking if Toews got way overpaid ..At $10.5 million it seems to me you gotta get near 100.points and s ore a few goals at least in a 7 game playoff series..In today's NHL third liners not on first contracts who get you Shaw numbers are going to get $3.5 to $4 million per..If you think we can easily replace Shaw with a cheaper Hartman who will get us 34 points 8n regular season and score 4 g and 2a in a 7 game playoff series..good luck with that..Bottom.line Shaw does deserve his money level and unfortunately we cannot 0ay it...so instead realize this and ask instead what will we consider fair value back in a trade for picks for Shaw?

 

[Your Reality Check]

kruger was quite visibly one of our best players during the st louis series

That's a bad thing

 

[RememberTheRoar]

Nobody will massively overpay Shaw...but the point is at a 34 point regular season in today's NHL this equates alone to a $3.4 million contract...add tge grit and grease element and his good playoffs scoring this season and it bumps towards $4 million per...If this is overpay compare to Johnny $10.5 million and his only 58 point season which my math says is way below double the production of Shaw and even less a differential in the pkayoffs points..So asking if Shaw will be overpaid at close to or at $4 million is a big guffaw question compared to asking if Toews got way overpaid ..At $10.5 million it seems to me you gotta get near 100.points and s ore a few goals at least in a 7 game playoff series..In today's NHL third liners not on first contracts who get you Shaw numbers are going to get $3.5 to $4 million per..If you think we can easily replace Shaw with a cheaper Hartman who will get us 34 points 8n regular season and score 4 g and 2a in a 7 game playoff series..good luck with that..Bottom.line Shaw does deserve his money level and unfortunately we cannot 0ay it...so instead realize this and ask instead what will we consider fair value back in a trade for picks for Shaw?

Aside from the obligatory shot at Toews, I think you're pretty spot-on.

 

[BobbyJet]

Nobody will massively overpay Shaw...but the point is at a 34 point regular season in today's NHL this equates alone to a $3.4 million contract...add tge grit and grease element and his good playoffs scoring this season and it bumps towards $4 million per...If this is overpay compare to Johnny $10.5 million and his only 58 point season which my math says is way below double the production of Shaw and even less a differential in the pkayoffs points..So asking if Shaw will be overpaid at close to or at $4 million is a big guffaw question compared to asking if Toews got way overpaid ..At $10.5 million it seems to me you gotta get near 100.points and s ore a few goals at least in a 7 game playoff series..In today's NHL third liners not on first contracts who get you Shaw numbers are going to get $3.5 to $4 million per..If you think we can easily replace Shaw with a cheaper Hartman who will get us 34 points 8n regular season and score 4 g and 2a in a 7 game playoff series..good luck with that..Bottom.line Shaw does deserve his money level and unfortunately we cannot 0ay it...so instead realize this and ask instead what will we consider fair value back in a trade for picks for Shaw?

If Shaw is expecting $ 4 M he will be walking. If he is to be re-signed in Chicago, I suspect it will be close to $ 3 M, but I do agree he will fetch more elsewhere if that's the route he chooses. After his playoff performance (especially), if it is just money he is seeking, he is sitting pretty. I'd hate to lose him.

 

[marco1475]

People need to stop asking for Seabrook, AA, or Kruger to be traded. No GM will ever trade a player immediately after they gave them a new contract. If they had any doubts, they wouldn't have given them the new contract to begin with. Seabrook even got an NMC added to the last year of his old contract (!).

Despite what you think of their performance, these three are not going anywhere for a few years.

 

[CourtneyDagger50]

People need to stop asking for Seabrook, AA, or Kruger to be traded. No GM will ever trade a player immediately after they gave them a new contract. If they had any doubts, they wouldn't have given them the new contract to begin with. Seabrook even got an NMC added to the last year of his old contract (!).

Despite what you think of their performance, these three are not going anywhere for a few years.

You act like it has never happened

 

[ClydeLee]

They don't need to be traded... expansion draft folks, expansion draft. I think either AA or TT will be gone going into 17/18 via that.

 

[x Tame Impala]

People need to stop asking for Seabrook, AA, or Kruger to be traded. No GM will ever trade a player immediately after they gave them a new contract. If they had any doubts, they wouldn't have given them the new contract to begin with. Seabrook even got an NMC added to the last year of his old contract (!).

Despite what you think of their performance, these three are not going anywhere for a few years.

Bollig

 

[pvr]

Trade Kruger for a bucket of pucks and get him off the books. Shaw needs to stay.

If the choice is Shaw or Kruger, Shaw hands down.

4th lines take on many forms, don't be lulled into the feeling that what the Hawks do is the best or even only way to run a 4th line.

Kruger has a limited skill set that is replaced by pretty much any defensively aware forward.

I suppose if you say it often enough (I.E. We have the best 4th line in hockey... MK is the best 4th line center etc...) one can convince oneself that it is true.

The heart that Shaw brings to this team is not something easily replaced.



Spot on.

Couldn't agree more with both of you. Shaw is a glue guy. The asinine contract for Kruger is every bit as bad (worse even) than the Seabrook contract. At least Seabrook fulfills a role that nobody on the Hawks or in the pipeline does. Kruger has our worst contract aside from Bickell.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

I still maintain that you don't pay either Kruger or Shaw and you use that money to fill out a deeper, less top heavy bottom six.

 

[Salvaged Ship]

Why is Shaw's talent always underrated? It is not obvious Hartman has more talent, Shaw has proven it at the highest level. Hartman has proven nothing and is not the same kind of player. Is Hartman fearless in front of the net, always standing up for teammates, always physical, has an ability to score huge goals in the playoffs? Shaw is not just a "grit' player. He is a grit player will skill and huge guts. No one on this roster has the willingness to do what he does. Would like to see Shaw still here with Hartman up as well. Kruger is a nice player but to me is much more replaceable, especially on this roster. No goals all season? So he is a good defender and decent faceoff guy. That sounds replaceable. Shaw has talent and intangibles.

Jusr read somewhere if Bickell is bought out it saves us 3 mil to next years cap but has a 1.5 mil hit for the following year. Is this correct? If this allows us to sign Shaw to a deal I would rather see him stay and take on the 1.5 mil hit the next year.

Might get eaten alive for this and I would not want to see him go, but is it a consideration to trade Crawford and get a goalie in at half his salary? I love Crow and yes he is vital to our success but just wondering if there is someone out there at a lower salary who could come close to replacing him, maybe and up and comer who could surprise and get to Crow's level. Crow is moveable without dumping young prospects or taking garbage back. No I wouldn't want to lose him but you have to shed cap and weigh how its best to do so without having half your roster made up of rookies or washed up minimum salary vets.

 

[JaegerDice]

First of all, the Blackhawks 4th line is it's third line in both TOI and deployment.

Secondly, yes, it is absolutely one of the best shutdown lines in the league, in large part thanks to Kruger.

Shaw's #heart #grit #CHARACTURGUY! is not as important as a player that can take the vast bulk of the toughest Dzone starts against top competition and flip the ice more often than not.