T: Flames no longer Pursuing new Arena

[shoop]

I'm all for Calgary getting a new arena, just not yet. The Saddledome is in a great location and will be functional for many more years with some renovations. When it's time to build the new arena they should get the exact same deal that we got in Edmonton.

The same deal in Calgary makes no sense with the location of the Saddledome. Calgary has more vacant office space than all the office space in downtown Vancouver. The City of Edmonton agreeing to lease most of Edmonton tower was a big part of the deal happening.

 

[tempest2i]

I'm all for Calgary getting a new arena, just not yet. The Saddledome is in a great location and will be functional for many more years with some renovations. When it's time to build the new arena they should get the exact same deal that we got in Edmonton.

The Saddledome is terrible and it's located in the middle of a privately owned piece of land, Stampede Park.

It's not in a great location and it's biggest issues are not going to be fixed via renovations.

 

[oilers'72]

The Saddledome is terrible and it's located in the middle of a privately owned piece of land, Stampede Park.

It's not in a great location and it's biggest issues are not going to be fixed via renovations.

I used to live a block and a bit west of the Stampede LRT station, which leads into the Stampede grounds and a view of the Saddledome. The situation around was pretty much like Northlands. Older neighbourhood and publicly owned facilities which were led by horse racing. If anyone remembers the 1988 Olympics, the area to the north of the 'Dome was filled with decaying slum houses. Some are still there (this is probably the area Nenshi's referring to). Although there's improvements on the west side of McLeod Trail (the old rooming house I was in is still there), it's still not a glittering jewel. Much of the construction was more due to the building spree the city's gone through. I can see why the Flames want to have a building elsewhere. I don't think it can be done on the Stampede grounds or anywhere close to downtown.

 

[Asiaoil]

Calgary needs to smarten up and realize that giving tons of public money to rich private investors is the how business is done now. We can't have the little people dare question our elites and expect public servants to actually protect the public interest in negotiations. No that would never do. You should be happy that Ken King even bothers to talk to the unwashed masses. His contempt is a sign of love for Calgarians.

 

[tempest2i]

Calgary needs to smarten up and realize that giving tons of public money to rich private investors is the how business is done now. We can't have the little people dare question our elites and expect public servants to actually protect the public interest in negotiations. No that would never do. You should be happy that Ken King even bothers to talk to the unwashed masses. His contempt is a sign of love for Calgarians.

Ken King is the new Kevin Lowe?

Minus actually being able to say "I know a little something about winning"

 

[shoop]

Calgary needs to smarten up and realize that giving tons of public money to rich private investors is the how business is done now. We can't have the little people dare question our elites and expect public servants to actually protect the public interest in negotiations. No that would never do. You should be happy that Ken King even bothers to talk to the unwashed masses. His contempt is a sign of love for Calgarians.

If the Flames leave for another city how exactly does that protect the public interest?

 

[ujju2]

If the Flames leave for another city how exactly does that protect the public interest?

Well said.

 

[Jumptheshark]

Well said.

if the flames leave calgary--another team would apply to move there

 

[Oilers Propagandist]

There is no money to be made in running an arena. That's why teams move if they don't get help from the public. Nobody is going to build an arena for the Flames to be tenant. The money ain't there.

There is actually.
https://nextcity.org/daily/entry/pr...nlikely-arenas-experience-success-in-the-rece

The arena in Kansas City specifically i can talk about because i know they were profitable with a bunch of concerts among many other things.
It can be done and with a new arena in Calgary, more shows would go there because the acoustics wouldn't be as crappy. The flames ownership wouldn't be happy because they would have to pay rent but who cares. It can work.

 

[Oilers Propagandist]

I am amused how not many people point out that Calagry is top 15 in profit sharing and top ten in attendance in the NHL nearly every year

the flames make money--but not as much money as the oilers do with their new toy.

STH can correct me on this..but since we got our new toy prices having gone up 10 to 20% from the old barn and food prices have doubled in some cases.

Flames are seeing the money the oilers are making and want to make that to.

Blast Katz as much as you like--but he did open his wallet for the build--something that the flames owners do not want to do--if you read their proposals they start off by saying they will--but when you read the tax exemptions--they are not

The Golden Knights owner said the Oilers were 3rd in league revenue, behind thee leafs and rangers I believe.

 

[Asiaoil]

if the flames leave calgary--another team would apply to move there

.........in about 10 minutes given the demonstrated revenue potential.

Look the corporate welfare bums who own the flames will eventually get their free money from the Calgary taxpayers, but the least they can do is smile and make a little sweet talk before f**king them. They can't even manage that. It's astounding watching guys like King and Bettman walk around with that clueless look in their eyes try to compute why people are not throwing hundreds of millions of dollars at them in the middle of a recession with half of the commercial office space in town sitting empty.

 

[Tarus]

if the flames leave calgary--another team would apply to move there

With the amount of competition out there for major league teams, no owner is going to apply to move to a city with aging facilities after a failed negotiations with a hostile political party. Maybe in 20 years from now it could happen when the stink of the soured relationship between the NHL and city wears off, but even then it would only happen if someone forks over the money to build a new arena anyways.

If things actually got to the point where the Flames did leave, the Oilers will be the sole NHL team in Alberta for a long time.

 

[Jumptheshark]

With the amount of competition out there for major league teams, no owner is going to apply to move to a city with aging facilities after a failed negotiations with a hostile political party. Maybe in 20 years from now it could happen when the stink of the soured relationship between the NHL and city wears off, but even then it would only happen if someone forks over the money to build a new arena anyways.

If things actually got to the point where the Flames did leave, the Oilers will be the sole NHL team in Alberta for a long time.

even though they are top 10 in attendance and 15 in profit?

 

[Tarus]

even though they are top 10 in attendance and 15 in profit?

Yes

Not everything the NHL does is motivated by profit, logic, or rational thought, ie - the Coyotes losing money in the desert for 20 years.

 

[Asiaoil]

Yes

Not everything the NHL does is motivated by profit, logic, or rational thought, ie - the Coyotes losing money in the desert for 20 years.

Yes and the only way they can behave that way is by raiding the public purse. The flames will probably get their handout, but to behave the way they are in this type of economy shows you how little they actually care about the citizens of Calgary.

 

[shoop]

Yes and the only way they can behave that way is by raiding the public purse. The flames will probably get their handout, but to behave the way they are in this type of economy shows you how little they actually care about the citizens of Calgary.

Not really. The citizens of Calgary like their Flames. When the Flames play well it energizes the city, granted it doesn't happen very much.

Nenshi et. al care more about social activism and grinding political opposition into the dust. That's why he may well lose this election. The childish antics over the rink deal is just the most prominent example of Nenshi's disdain for hard working Calgarians.

 

[ujju2]

if the flames leave calgary--another team would apply to move there

Not the same as having the team they've had since 1980. Would you be happy to lose the Oilers then have another team come to Edmonton?

 

[Tarus]

Yes and the only way they can behave that way is by raiding the public purse. The flames will probably get their handout, but to behave the way they are in this type of economy shows you how little they actually care about the citizens of Calgary.

The citizens of Calgary are customers, and the fundamental goal of building a new arena is to extract more money out of the customer base. Despite what they might say in their public propaganda about their place in the community, they are in the business of making money off the people in the city.

They probably will get their subsides and zero interest loans like many other sports franchises around north america(pending they get their Stephan Mandel type cheerleader in the Mayor seat of course), but that is simply the reality of doing business with major sports franchises.

 

[Jumptheshark]

Not the same as having the team they've had since 1980. Would you be happy to lose the Oilers then have another team come to Edmonton?

the city of edmonton lives, breaths dies hockey

the city would spend 24 1/2 hours bitching and complaining about the lose of the team-then plan the parade for the new team

the problem with the tactic of the flames owner is the team is the team is top 10 in attendance and top 15 profitable teams in the NHL

they see Edmonton shiny new toy and want one

 

[harpoon]

Creating thousands of jobs for local economies makes one a 'corporate welfare bum'. Huh, who knew?

 

[smackdaddy]

if the flames leave calgary--another team would apply to move there

Not without a new arena they won't. Support or not

 

[rboomercat90]

Not the same as having the team they've had since 1980. Would you be happy to lose the Oilers then have another team come to Edmonton?

If you'd have asked me this question prior to winning the McDavid lottery, when Mactavish and Lowe were running this team into the ground for a decade, I'd have said yes just to get rid of them. Things on the ice aren't that bad for the Flames but they really haven't been that great either.

That said, I don't think it's a slam dunk the Flames get a replacement team any time soon. Bettman is very petty. If he thinks he's been slighted by Nenshi or the citizens of Calgary, it wouldn't surprise me if the NHL doesn't return until there is a new commissioner.

 

[KingKhron]

I think they just fall down the pecking order. Cities have built arenas and wait hoping to be gifted one. Calgary would have to sort out arena funding, build it and then wait while maybe Seattle or Quebec City get one in the interim. Eventually with an arena built(which isn't going to happen in the present economy if they don't even have a team), they will likely get one of the failing teams. So enjoy your decade without hockey, Calgary, I guess. Don't know why people think a city doesn't lose by not having a sports franchise and I'm sorry but the CFL isn't going to fill that hole. Sure,
Providing for ourselves and our family are what primarily fills our time but if you're taking care of that, life needs to be filled until we kick the bucket and as much as some hate it, tribalism and sport has always been a gigantic part of human history. A joint venture between owner and city seem to be a very reasonable arrangement to me. Perhaps I'm very ignorant of the stats that show a different truth but I have the opinion that sports franchises do benefit the quality of life and even the economics of a city, so why wouldn't we be a part of the investment of it?

 

[smokersarejokers]

I think the North Stars situation would be a good comparable.

They moved from one of the best hockey areas in North America over an arena deal and it took 7 years to get another team. In those 7 years, teams moved to North Carolina and Phoenix, and expansion teams started in Nashville and Atlanta.

 

[Digger12]

I think if anyone believes that if the Flames left Calgary that another team would happily parachute in to replace them in short order, especially without a new arena, they are living in serious denial.

I believe they would get a new team via relocation, but you can be sure there will be a wait involved. And maybe a long wait at that.