Super Early 2008 Top 10

[AmericanDream]

I'm certainly not looking at AmericanDream to give me the gospel truth on any prospect. I just think anyone who posts a ranking of prospects, many of whom they have not actually seen, should state that. He referred to someone else as being a coward for not posting a list of their own. I fail to see how courage has anything to ranking players that you haven't seen play.

As far as lampooning NTDP prospects, I stated that I didn't agree with AmericanDream's assessment of Jimmy Hayes as possibly being the best player in next year's draft. I didn't say Hayes wasn't a good player, I simply stated that I didn't think he was close to Stamkos and others presently and won't be a year from now. I also stated that I like what Colin Wilson brings to the table, and the last time checked he was in the program as well.

so your not coming to the Church of American Dreams huh??

Its very simple, we all throw out our opinions, fact based or second hand, or whatever. Why do we read movie critic ratings? Because we are always curious as to what that person has to say..and usually 9 out of 10 times you dont agree with that opinion. But we still read them anyways.

Most of us on this board dont get to see every prospect, nor do we claim to..but we all can gather opinions from many different sources i.e other posters, magazines, the internet, etc.. I never claimed to be the all knowing when I put out my top 10, I just simply gave an opinion. I have seen some of these guys through various means, but never claimed that I am an expert on the matter. According to your criteria, there would probably be 10 threads on this board because noone would be able to comment on the majority of the players because we havent seen them. It would be a very boring board.

I think I saw Sid the kid twice this year, should I not comment on him because others have seen him more then I have?? Should I not formulate an opinion on those 2 viewings and what I have read from others and other publications?

As to the coward thing, he is a coward. People that want to add nothing but negatives to a thread without backing up their own comments is a coward. I call it like I see it.

And in all honesty you are a hypocrit. How can you comment on what Jimmy Hayes is, when you have never seen him? How can you say he cant be as good as Stamkos or whoever, if again you have never seen him? You are full of hypocricy like many posters on this board. If you dont like my assesment of Jimmy Hayes, back it up with facts, and not with hearsay and your own hypocritical biased beliefs. You have no idea how any player will turn out, or where they will get drafted a year from now.

thank you...and may the Lord be with you.

 

[VOB]

You ought to watch who you attack on this board American Dream. You have no idea who Juan or Cdnhky 1 are but I am telling you that they have seen more hockey prospects than you and I will wager that Cdnhcky 1 has in fact seen Hayes play.

As for Hayes, like I said in the other thread, he is a decent player but he cannot be compared to Stamkos, he's not even close! Could this change, possibly but alot will have to happen for Hayes to pass over Stamkos.

For the record, yes I have seen both Stamkos and Hayes play this year.

Sure its OK to regurgitate scouting opinions on this board but if someone challenges your opinion, don't fly off the handle. Show some maturity!

 

[Doomsday Device]

Take listed weights with a grain of salt. Dana Tyrell, for instance, is listed at a light weight and not to tall at 5'11''. Watching him play, he's pretty damn thick.

MS isn't referring to team listed weights. The NHL Central Scouting department measures the height and weight of the players independently. Those are the measurements he was quoting.

 

[Stealth JD]

if 2008 is the 'year of the defenseman'....how do the top guys compare to the top D-men of the '05 and '06 drafts? If EJ is supposedly the best D-man prospect of the last decade+, is Doughty on his level or a notch below?

Sounds like when Hedman gets drafted, the scouts will be saying he's the best D-man prospect since '06. Or would Hedman even surpass the stature of EJ and Pronger and become the best D-man prospect EVER? (Naturally, this being HF....when his draft year approaches I'm sure he will be touted as the possibly the best ever)

 

[Rabid Ranger]

You ought to watch who you attack on this board American Dream. You have no idea who Juan or Cdnhky 1 are but I am telling you that they have seen more hockey prospects than you and I will wager that Cdnhcky 1 has in fact seen Hayes play.

As for Hayes, like I said in the other thread, he is a decent player but he cannot be compared to Stamkos, he's not even close! Could this change, possibly but alot will have to happen for Hayes to pass over Stamkos.

For the record, yes I have seen both Stamkos and Hayes play this year.

Sure its OK to regurgitate scouting opinions on this board but if someone challenges your opinion, don't fly off the handle. Show some maturity!

Yet again AmericanDream's ORIGINAL point is being lost. It's not how Stamkos and Hayes compares RIGHT NOW, it's how they will compare in a YEAR FROM NOW! Despite your protests, it is *possible* Hayes will surpass Stamkos by the time the 2008 draft rolls around.

 

[VOB]

Yet again AmericanDream's ORIGINAL point is being lost. It's not how Stamkos and Hayes compares RIGHT NOW, it's how they will compare in a YEAR FROM NOW! Despite your protests, it is *possible* Hayes will surpass Stamkos by the time the 2008 draft rolls around.

And how many ways to I have to say it Rabid??? I stated numerous times that anything is possible! It is my opinion, however, based on direct observations of both players, Stamkos is so far ahead that it will really take a lot for Hayes to catch up. Could it happen, sure, but in my opinion I just don't see it.

 

[cdnhky1]

so your not coming to the Church of American Dreams huh??

Its very simple, we all throw out our opinions, fact based or second hand, or whatever. Why do we read movie critic ratings? Because we are always curious as to what that person has to say..and usually 9 out of 10 times you dont agree with that opinion. But we still read them anyways.

Most of us on this board dont get to see every prospect, nor do we claim to..but we all can gather opinions from many different sources i.e other posters, magazines, the internet, etc.. I never claimed to be the all knowing when I put out my top 10, I just simply gave an opinion. I have seen some of these guys through various means, but never claimed that I am an expert on the matter. According to your criteria, there would probably be 10 threads on this board because noone would be able to comment on the majority of the players because we havent seen them. It would be a very boring board.

I think I saw Sid the kid twice this year, should I not comment on him because others have seen him more then I have?? Should I not formulate an opinion on those 2 viewings and what I have read from others and other publications?

As to the coward thing, he is a coward. People that want to add nothing but negatives to a thread without backing up their own comments is a coward. I call it like I see it.

And in all honesty you are a hypocrit. How can you comment on what Jimmy Hayes is, when you have never seen him? How can you say he cant be as good as Stamkos or whoever, if again you have never seen him? You are full of hypocricy like many posters on this board. If you dont like my assesment of Jimmy Hayes, back it up with facts, and not with hearsay and your own hypocritical biased beliefs. You have no idea how any player will turn out, or where they will get drafted a year from now.

thank you...and may the Lord be with you.

As I've said previously, I have no problem with someone stating an opinion. I just think it's a good idea to state why you feel that way. If you're going to post a list of the top 10, 50 or 100 players available in whatever draft, but you've only seen half of them play and the rest of the names are there simply to fill space, state that.

As for your penchant for resorting to name calling to prove your point, I don't think it's necessary, but if it makes you feel better then so be it.

You refered to Juan as coward because he was unwilling to comment and rank players he hasn't seen. As far as I'm concerned it takes far more courage to admit that you don't know something and are unwilling to share your opinion on that topic because of your lack of knowledge than it does to throw a bunch of names down
on your computer screen and pretend to be an expert.

As far as me being a hypocrite is concerned, you and RabidRanger believe I haven't seen Hayes play and thus shouldn't comment on him. As I've stated previously I've seen him play on many occasions over the span of a few years. Am I an expert on his game and do I know his game as well as others? Probably not. But I know his game well enough to feel comfortable stating that I believe Stamkos is quite a bit better than Hayes today, and will still be quite a bit better than Hayes on draft day in 2008. Is it possible that Hayes will be a better player than Stamkos. Sure it is. But as I'm sure the vast majority of truly knowledgeable hockey people will tell you, it's highly unlikely.

We're all intelligent enough to realize that there are no guarantees in life and in sport, and that anything can happen. I just don't think that's much of an argument when it comes to defending your opinion on a hockey prospect. I can't imagine a scout saying he thinks one player will be better than another, not because he's the better player today, but because anything can happen. I don't think you would keep your job very long if that was your justification for rating one player over another.

 

[VOB]

if 2008 is the 'year of the defenseman'....how do the top guys compare to the top D-men of the '05 and '06 drafts? If EJ is supposedly the best D-man prospect of the last decade+, is Doughty on his level or a notch below?

Sounds like when Hedman gets drafted, the scouts will be saying he's the best D-man prospect since '06. Or would Hedman even surpass the stature of EJ and Pronger and become the best D-man prospect EVER? (Naturally, this being HF....when his draft year approaches I'm sure he will be touted as the possibly the best ever)

EJ is a great prospect and will be a good NHL Dman but its a bit of a stretch right now to say that he is the best D prospect of the last 10 years. Don't worry, they will be saying the same about Doughty this year and about Hedman next year, and again it will still be a bit of a stretch.

Publications deal in hype because hype sells, remember that and you will not be disappointed.

 

[AmericanDream]

As I've said previously, I have no problem with someone stating an opinion. I just think it's a good idea to state why you feel that way. If you're going to post a list of the top 10, 50 or 100 players available in whatever draft, but you've only seen half of them play and the rest of the names are there simply to fill space, state that.

As for your penchant for resorting to name calling to prove your point, I don't think it's necessary, but if it makes you feel better then so be it.

You refered to Juan as coward because he was unwilling to comment and rank players he hasn't seen. As far as I'm concerned it takes far more courage to admit that you don't know something and are unwilling to share your opinion on that topic because of your lack of knowledge than it does to throw a bunch of names down
on your computer screen and pretend to be an expert.

As far as me being a hypocrite is concerned, you and RabidRanger believe I haven't seen Hayes play and thus shouldn't comment on him. As I've stated previously I've seen him play on many occasions over the span of a few years. Am I an expert on his game and do I know his game as well as others? Probably not. But I know his game well enough to feel comfortable stating that I believe Stamkos is quite a bit better than Hayes today, and will still be quite a bit better than Hayes on draft day in 2008. Is it possible that Hayes will be a better player than Stamkos. Sure it is. But as I'm sure the vast majority of truly knowledgeable hockey people will tell you, it's highly unlikely.

We're all intelligent enough to realize that there are no guarantees in life and in sport, and that anything can happen. I just don't think that's much of an argument when it comes to defending your opinion on a hockey prospect. I can't imagine a scout saying he thinks one player will be better than another, not because he's the better player today, but because anything can happen. I don't think you would keep your job very long if that was your justification for rating one player over another.

I agree with almost everything you said, and in a sense you are agreeing with my earlier points. We all have an opinion, and its exactly what you just said above. Maybe my opinion is wrong, but it is still my opinion. If you have seen Jimmy Hayes play a bunch of times, then excuse me, I took it from your earlier posts that you never really seen the guy.

In regards to ranking players, just look at this board. How many of these guys actually have seen all the players they are ranking?? Maybe 1 or 2 posters actually has depending on the thread. I just read through the rank your teams prospect thread, and there is no way anyone has seen all those different prospects from all the different countries they hail from. They are just throwing out their opinion, some from what they have seen, and the rest from what they have heard.

And to end it, I am not alone in the thinking that people who just throw out a negative comment, or make a "how can you put this guy...laughable smilies" post without backing it up is a coward, or an ahole, however you look at it. It is about respect for the poster too, and if someone wants to bash a posters opinion, or laugh at it, atleast back it up with how they see things differently. I dont care less if people dont like my opinions, some dont, I can live with that! haha But, it needs to be fair on both sides.

 

[AmericanDream]

You ought to watch who you attack on this board American Dream. You have no idea who Juan or Cdnhky 1 are but I am telling you that they have seen more hockey prospects than you and I will wager that Cdnhcky 1 has in fact seen Hayes play.

As for Hayes, like I said in the other thread, he is a decent player but he cannot be compared to Stamkos, he's not even close! Could this change, possibly but alot will have to happen for Hayes to pass over Stamkos.

For the record, yes I have seen both Stamkos and Hayes play this year.

Sure its OK to regurgitate scouting opinions on this board but if someone challenges your opinion, don't fly off the handle. Show some maturity!

hahaha, what are they going to do, put a hit out on my family???

and what the heck are you talking about attacking..I think you have been hitting the bottle and pills a little too strong, because all I have been doing is DEFENDING! Big difference pal. I didn't do anything but defend my opinion, and it seems that it is you that cannot handle someone who stands up for what he thinks and feels is right... I dont care what you think about Stamkos or Hayes anymore, because I could care less about your jaded opinions and your absolute mindedness. If you dont like what I post...just do us both a favor, and move onto the next one. It is that simple.

 

[AmericanDream]

1.filatov
2. stamkos
3. doughty
4. hodgon
5. petrov
6. jenks
7. arniel
8. baiely
9. motin
10. voinov

uh-oh...here is a guy that put someone ahead of Stamkos...you better not do that, you shouldnt have an opinion that goes against some of the guys on this board. I am surprised they havent "attacked" you yet pouskin, but watch out they may do it in your sleep...or you may wake up with a horse's head in your bed..either way its bad news.

I like Filatov, I think he will be a good one. nice job on the list, some tough picks out there, but I respect that you put your own list out there. You think Jenks is going to go that high?? Thats pretty cool, I thought he would be a mid first rounder, but good to see he is in some peoples high regards.

 

[VikingAv]

uh-oh...here is a guy that put someone ahead of Stamkos...you better not do that, you shouldnt have an opinion that goes against some of the guys on this board. I am surprised they havent "attacked" you yet pouskin, but watch out they may do it in your sleep...or you may wake up with a horse's head in your bed..either way its bad news.

I like Filatov, I think he will be a good one. nice job on the list, some tough picks out there, but I respect that you put your own list out there. You think Jenks is going to go that high?? Thats pretty cool, I thought he would be a mid first rounder, but good to see he is in some peoples high regards.

Who are you? The Godfather

 

[Juan]

hahaha, what are they going to do, put a hit out on my family???

and what the heck are you talking about attacking..I think you have been hitting the bottle and pills a little too strong, because all I have been doing is DEFENDING! Big difference pal. I didn't do anything but defend my opinion, and it seems that it is you that cannot handle someone who stands up for what he thinks and feels is right... I dont care what you think about Stamkos or Hayes anymore, because I could care less about your jaded opinions and your absolute mindedness. If you dont like what I post...just do us both a favor, and move onto the next one. It is that simple.

Given that I submitted, as per your request, a top 10 list (of players I have seen and with whom I am very familiar), I am still waiting for you to explain your opinion (third hand as it may be) re: ranking McRae ahead of Hodgson and most of the other players on my OHL list. I have answered all the questions that other posters have had about my list to the best of my ability. I would be happy to answer any that you might have as well.

In providing your explanation, please indicate which players you have and have not actually seen.

 

[VOB]

hahaha, what are they going to do, put a hit out on my family???
.

Not at all, even though a hit on you would be no more than a .50c piece, you still wouldn't be worth it.

Its just that Juan and cdnhky make you look like a fool but granted thats not hard to do!

You are not very knowledgeable about too many players but we do "tolerate" your opinions...no matter how backwards they may be.

You on the other hand go into full attack mode, calling people (who you know nothing about) cowards and such. Grow up a little kid!

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Not at all, even though a hit on you would be no more than a .50c piece, you still wouldn't be worth it.

Its just that Juan and cdnhky make you look like a fool but granted thats not hard to do!

You are not very knowledgeable about too many players but we do "tolerate" your opinions...no matter how backwards they may be.

You on the other hand go into full attack mode, calling people (who you know nothing about) cowards and such. Grow up a little kid!

What's with the piggybacking VOB? I don't think Juan or cdnhky1 have much to gain with you championing their causes, and what's with this "tolerating" of others opinions? Opinions (well-informed or not) is what this forum is all about. Maybe a little less condescension is in order?

 

[VOB]

What's with the piggybacking VOB? I don't think Juan or cdnhky1 have much to gain with you championing their causes, and what's with this "tolerating" of others opinions? Opinions (well-informed or not) is what this forum is all about. Maybe a little less condescension is in order?

Duh, what do you think I've been trying to get through to your junior buddy American Dream??? We tolerate each other's opinions, even though they may be way off the mark. It doesn't mean we can't question them though, and this is where American Dream begins to break down. Posters like Juan, disagreed with him, questioned him as to how he could choose a certain player over another and then suddenly the name calling pops up.

 

[Doomsday Device]

If someone has never seen a player, the only "other criteria" you could be referring to is the opinions of other people who actually have. Or more likely on this board, the opinions of other people who haven't. I guess I have the answer to my question about American Dream's list as long as I understand the notion of "garbage in, garbage out".

In any event, here's my top 10 list of players coming out of the OHL for 2008:

1. Stamkos
2. Doughty
3. Pietrangelo
4. Hodgson
5. Bogosian
6. Del Zotto
7. Bailey
8. Arniel
9. Henrique
10. Jenks

What do you think of Greg Nemisz? He hasn't got a lot of buzz on here other than the fact that he was selected high in the Priority selection. But I noticed that his season splits were nice in terms of offensive improvement, only 11 points in the first 31 games, and then 23 points in the last 31. At 6'3" 206, he seems to have good size as well. Just looking at the numbers alone makes me think he might have a chance to make a jump in production next year, kind of like Jeff Carter or Jordan Staal.

 

[AmericanDream]

Given that I submitted, as per your request, a top 10 list (of players I have seen and with whom I am very familiar), I am still waiting for you to explain your opinion (third hand as it may be) re: ranking McRae ahead of Hodgson and most of the other players on my OHL list. I have answered all the questions that other posters have had about my list to the best of my ability. I would be happy to answer any that you might have as well.

In providing your explanation, please indicate which players you have and have not actually seen.

still waiting for a top 10 prospect list for next years NHL draft, not a list of OHL guys. I appreciate the attempt, but like I stated earlier, not what the thread or what my criteria called for.

 

[AmericanDream]

Not at all, even though a hit on you would be no more than a .50c piece, you still wouldn't be worth it.

Its just that Juan and cdnhky make you look like a fool but granted thats not hard to do!

You are not very knowledgeable about too many players but we do "tolerate" your opinions...no matter how backwards they may be.

You on the other hand go into full attack mode, calling people (who you know nothing about) cowards and such. Grow up a little kid!

thats toleration??? are you kidding me? How can you go out there and talk about toleration then put a post like that out there? I have more knowledge in my third testical then you have in your entire body about the sport of hockey. Please dont even attempt to question my knowledge of this game son. You have no toleration or respect for a persons opinions if it differs from yours.

Make a thread about Phil McRae and of Jimmy Hayes, and ask where do you think both of these guys will go in the draft. Please, please make that thread. If my opinions are so far off, then lets see what other posters have to say about them. Not many people will differ much from what I put about these 2 players. Many might not say McRae is a top 10 right now, but I bet they will say he is a first rounder who COULD crack the top 10 at some point. You are as ignorant as they come, so please quit trying to come off as some intellectually superior hockey fan...because you are not sir.

 

[AmericanDream]

Who are you? The Godfather

hahaha...I'm gonna make you an offer that you cant refuse <---imagine this in a graspy old man voice!

 

[JonnyG]

Juan, since your very familiar with the OHL...Where do you think
Eric Tangradi and Chris Terry will go in the NHL Draft this year....I'm sure your really familiar with these two players and have seen them quite a bit.....

 

[VOB]

thats toleration??? are you kidding me? How can you go out there and talk about toleration then put a post like that out there? I have more knowledge in my third testical then you have in your entire body about the sport of hockey. Please dont even attempt to question my knowledge of this game son. You have no toleration or respect for a persons opinions if it differs from yours.

Make a thread about Phil McRae and of Jimmy Hayes, and ask where do you think both of these guys will go in the draft. Please, please make that thread. If my opinions are so far off, then lets see what other posters have to say about them. Not many people will differ much from what I put about these 2 players. Many might not say McRae is a top 10 right now, but I bet they will say he is a first rounder who COULD crack the top 10 at some point. You are as ignorant as they come, so please quit trying to come off as some intellectually superior hockey fan...because you are not sir.

Like I said American Dream...you have a lot of growing up to do.

As for Hayes, he will not go in the top 10 unless he changes the way he plays the game. He has size, but does not use it. He has skill but only displays it on the perimeter. He needs to get more jam and stop playing like he's afraid of getting hit. He needs to develop better on ice vision as well and quit being a liabiltiy in his own end. It was for these reasons that he was relegated to the 4th line during the recent U-18 tourney. Yes, the kid has potential (good skater, excellent release, soft hands) but he has to make those changes.

Now as for McRae, sorry their dreamer but I'm not going to help you here, its time you stand on your own two little feet and face Juan's questions like a man.

Oh and sorry to hear about your physical abnormalities.

 

[pouskin74*]

uh-oh...here is a guy that put someone ahead of Stamkos...you better not do that, you shouldnt have an opinion that goes against some of the guys on this board. I am surprised they havent "attacked" you yet pouskin, but watch out they may do it in your sleep...or you may wake up with a horse's head in your bed..either way its bad news.

I like Filatov, I think he will be a good one. nice job on the list, some tough picks out there, but I respect that you put your own list out there. You think Jenks is going to go that high?? Thats pretty cool, I thought he would be a mid first rounder, but good to see he is in some peoples high regards.

 

[Default101]

If you have McRae in your top 10, not for anything he's ever done, but because you "like what he has" [fairly tall, good stride, rangy] and you "like the team he plays on" [he should get more ice time and opportunity], then shouldn't you also have OHL'ers like Nemisz, Staal, DeCoste, Della Rovere and Brittain in your top 10?

to each their own but ive seen mcrae play alot this year and he made alot of mistakes... even as a rookie, players can improve drastically from their rookie year, and he would have to absolutely blow this past year out of the water to be put into the top 10, right now i'd say high 2nd rounder, but he has the most potential of all to move up the most in this draft. Top goaltender possibility i think is DiSalvo for the sting, when Dahm got delt, DiSalvo came into a few games, mostly in relief, but the one thing that caught me was his ability with his glove, he robbed a few veteran scorers with a lightning glove hand, however being a back-up next year most likely might affect his ranking, but he has tons of potential during his showing so far in the OHL, Mason was drafted as a back-up, Jeremy Smith will be drafted as a back-up, and DiSalvo may do it as top ranked goalie next year as a likely back-up.

 

[scoutman1]

Kevin Poulin should be hands down the best goalie for the 2008 draft, he is going to be amazing next year.