Stamkos Debate - PostDeadline 2016

[mobilus]

Stamkos isn't coming to Toronto because they don't want him. The days of parachuting in high priced saviours is over. That type of ineffective team building is what led to the current teardown... they're not going to muck it up by going back to old habits.

When's the last time Toronto had a competitive team with a solid core that they had drafted and/or developed themselves? You'd have to go back to the 1970s to find it, go back to the 1960s to find one that became champions. You build your own core, you bring in assorted pieces to compliment it. Those pieces are interchangeable year over year but the core stays your own until they age gracefully and are replaced by new core pieces you've developed yourself. Current Leafs management has no interest in Stamkos.

 

[thewave]

Star players, especially strong skaters, tend to last longer before seeing a decline.

With Stamkos's shot, I would expect him to be at least an Iginla like player past the point where his next contract ends.

Nets could be made larger or G equip smaller. +++ to Stamkos for having an Elite shot.

 

[dirk41]

Does that not depend on what they sign him for?

Well, sure, but he'll get around $6 per from some one, and he doesn't provide enough value to justify that.

The only false dilemma is Stamkos vs Nylander, Marner and the 2016 1st being re-signed.

There can be more than one false dilemma in a thread. And that is not one that I put forward.

Why would Stamkos decline at the age of 30?

Probably because most players start to decline well before then.

 

[Grapes1]

This just for fun to put his age into perspective... here is a handfull of skilled players and their age difference to Stamkos :

3 years older:
Crosby
Backstrom
Kopitar
Neal
Kessel

2 years older:
Kane
Giroux
Pacioretty
Toews

1 year older:
Benn
Subban
Voracek

Same Age
Tavares
Karlsson
Tyler Johnson

1 year younger
Panarin
Tarasenko
Duschene

2 years younger
Seguin
Johansen
Landeskog

 

[thewave]

Stamkos isn't coming to Toronto because they don't want him. The days of parachuting in high priced saviours is over. That type of ineffective team building is what led to the current teardown... they're not going to muck it up by going back to old habits.

When's the last time Toronto had a competitive team with a solid core that they had drafted and/or developed themselves? You'd have to go back to the 1970s to find it, go back to the 1960s to find one that became champions. You build your own core, you bring in assorted pieces to compliment it. Those pieces are interchangeable year over year but the core stays your own until they age gracefully and are replaced by new core pieces you've developed yourself. Current Leafs management has no interest in Stamkos.

We traded a fair bit...

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/teams/dr00008490.html

 

[Gary Nylund]

To be fair, Pookie was talking "Goals are down"... but nice cherry picking.

Fair enough, you got me - I didn't read carefully the post you were responding to. Perhaps you can understand that it was easy for me to make such a mistake (no I wasn't cherry picking) as I have seen here many times people point to the number of goals Stamkos scores, claim that he's still "as elite as ever" and ignore completely that he has dropped from being a perennial top 3 scorer (points) to being on the fringes of the top 20.

Stamkos isn't coming to Toronto because they don't want him. The days of parachuting in high priced saviours is over. That type of ineffective team building is what led to the current teardown... they're not going to muck it up by going back to old habits.

When's the last time Toronto had a competitive team with a solid core that they had drafted and/or developed themselves? You'd have to go back to the 1970s to find it, go back to the 1960s to find one that became champions. You build your own core, you bring in assorted pieces to compliment it. Those pieces are interchangeable year over year but the core stays your own until they age gracefully and are replaced by new core pieces you've developed yourself. Current Leafs management has no interest in Stamkos.

I highly doubt it's as simple as that. If Stamkos offers himself to the Leafs for 9m per season, you really think they say thanks but no thanks?

 

[Leaf Rocket]

I still hope we get Tavares instead of him...I like stamkos and he wants to be here and all but damn. Tavares is the style of player you want, to win championships.

 

[Daisy Jane]

I still hope we get Tavares instead of him...I like stamkos and he wants to be here and all but damn. Tavares is the style of player you want, to win championships.

but
1: Tavares is 2 years away
2: Tavares said he wants to be like Joe Sakic and stay with 1 organization his entire career

 

[Oskar The Groucho]

I still hope we get Tavares instead of him...I like stamkos and he wants to be here and all but damn. Tavares is the style of player you want, to win championships.

Like what he has done, or hasnt in New York?

 

[Oskar The Groucho]

but
1: Tavares is 2 years away
2: Tavares said he wants to be like Joe Sakic and stay with 1 organization his entire career

Trust me and you can quote me on this. If and that is if Stamkos signs with Toronto. Tavares will follow suit in 2 years time.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Trust me and you can quote me on this. If and that is if Stamkos signs with Toronto. Tavares will follow suit in 2 years time.

why do you believe that is so?

 

[Oskar The Groucho]

why do you believe that is so?

If Steven Stamkos signs in Toronto, that would be the biggest free agent singing in NHL history bar one. He would get $70+ million. Be a home town boy coming to play with the team he grew up watching.

John Tavares is another home town boy. Great all world talent, grew up watching the leafs and has a chance to come play with Stamkos, Marner, Nylander, Rielly and whoever else we trade for and draft. New York is not going anywhere anytime soon.

Its all about legacy with players like that. And creating one in Toronto of all places would have there talked about by our childrens, children.

 

[mobilus]

I highly doubt it's as simple as that. If Stamkos offers himself to the Leafs for 9m per season, you really think they say thanks but no thanks?

Yes, at $9m I think they would say no thanks.

 

[Advanced stats]

Outside of Rielly, none of these guys should be of concern or deserve precedence when it comes to the possibility of signing Stamkos. Really, Carrick and Holland?

For me, you sign Stamkos and work the cap around him, not sign the likes of Carrick, Holland and fillers on D and in net and then see if you can fit Stamkos in. You're trying to build the best and most talented team possible. Stamkos achieves that, then you fill the holes with plugs.

Well if your not resigning those guys, than your either going through UFA(even more expensive) or your playing with even more rookies.(dumb if had your roster is rookies.)

Could you give me an example of cup contenders that have one star and a bunch of "plugs" as you say?

Cause I can give you numerous examples of cup teams that have built successfully through the draft. In no way do we have 10 million to drop on stamkos, without ditching the rebuild.

 

[Faltorvo]

Stamkos isn't coming to Toronto because they don't want him. The days of parachuting in high priced saviours is over. That type of ineffective team building is what led to the current teardown... they're not going to muck it up by going back to old habits.

When's the last time Toronto had a competitive team with a solid core that they had drafted and/or developed themselves? You'd have to go back to the 1970s to find it, go back to the 1960s to find one that became champions. You build your own core, you bring in assorted pieces to compliment it. Those pieces are interchangeable year over year but the core stays your own until they age gracefully and are replaced by new core pieces you've developed yourself. Current Leafs management has no interest in Stamkos.

wooo hooo hahahaha

comedy gold

 

[Faltorvo]

Well if your not resigning those guys, than your either going through UFA(even more expensive) or your playing with even more rookies.(dumb if had your roster is rookies.)

Could you give me an example of cup contenders that have one star and a bunch of "plugs" as you say?

Cause I can give you numerous examples of cup teams that have built successfully through the draft. In no way do we have 10 million to drop on stamkos, without ditching the rebuild.

pssst

your dead wrong

 

[Oskar The Groucho]

Well if your not resigning those guys, than your either going through UFA(even more expensive) or your playing with even more rookies.(dumb if had your roster is rookies.)

Could you give me an example of cup contenders that have one star and a bunch of "plugs" as you say?

Cause I can give you numerous examples of cup teams that have built successfully through the draft. In no way do we have 10 million to drop on stamkos, without ditching the rebuild.

DO you see how much cap space we have for next year?

 

[Advanced stats]

And I totally understand where you're coming from. If we can get him for a fair price though, how can you not do it? So the question becomes (for me anyway), what's a fair price? To answer that question, you have to be able to take a pretty good educated guess as to how he's going to perform over the next 7 years, now that' tough to do (with all due respect to all those that say "it's Steven freaking Stamkos for crissakes"). All I can say is that we seem to have a good management team in place so hopefully they'll make a smart decision.

Very much agreed.
1. Its hard to get UFA's at a fair price.
2. To me a fair price is in the 8 million range.
3. Stamkos as a overpaid priority goes against everything management has said.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Well if your not resigning those guys, than your either going through UFA(even more expensive) or your playing with even more rookies.(dumb if had your roster is rookies.)

Could you give me an example of cup contenders that have one star and a bunch of "plugs" as you say?

Cause I can give you numerous examples of cup teams that have built successfully through the draft. In no way do we have 10 million to drop on stamkos, without ditching the rebuild.

....we have a tremendous amount of cap-space - even taking a flat/falling cap now. we still have to build a team. and reach the floor

 

[Advanced stats]

DO you see how much cap space we have for next year?

For next year yeah, we could make stamkos work, 2 years, yeah. In 6 years? 10 million for a player projected in the 70 point range will look awful when trying to sign our developed skill.

 

[Menzinger]

If Steven Stamkos signs in Toronto, that would be the biggest free agent singing in NHL history bar one. He would get $70+ million. Be a home town boy coming to play with the team he grew up watching.

John Tavares is another home town boy. Great all world talent, grew up watching the leafs and has a chance to come play with Stamkos, Marner, Nylander, Rielly and whoever else we trade for and draft. New York is not going anywhere anytime soon.

Its all about legacy with players like that. And creating one in Toronto of all places would have there talked about by our childrens, children.

I'm not sure the a leafs would be able to afford two massive salaries and still have a well rounded team.

 

[thewave]

For next year yeah, we could make stamkos work, 2 years, yeah. In 6 years? 10 million for a player projected in the 70 point range will look awful when trying to sign our developed skill.

haha in 6yrs I hope we have a core and are trading out our own Saad's to keep the machine rolling. Are you scared to trade someone?

 

[Oskar The Groucho]

Very much agreed.
1. Its hard to get UFA's at a fair price.
2. To me a fair price is in the 8 million range.
3. Stamkos as a overpaid priority goes against everything management has said.

1. It is hard to get UFAs at a fair price. BUT, those are for players not even sniffing the talent that Stamkos has. He will be the biggest UFA to hit the market in the history of the league. You will pony up whaever is in your budget for him.

2. To me a fair price in todays NHL for a 1st line Center is $8.5-$10.00 million. Stamkos is worth $10.

3. Stamkos at $10 million per year is not that bad. They has stressed in brining in veterans to show the yonger guys how its done. You could see it in Mondays game, the younger guys we called him look at Stamkos as one of the elite player in the NHL. Younger guys try to emulate his style of game and shot. That is the type of player you want to guide us and our young prospects to the promise land.

 

[Oskar The Groucho]

I'm not sure the a leafs would be able to afford two massive salaries and still have a well rounded team.

Tell that to Chicago

 

[Faltorvo]

For next year yeah, we could make stamkos work, 2 years, yeah. In 6 years? 10 million for a player projected in the 70 point range will look awful when trying to sign our developed skill.

2009-10 salary cap set at $56.8 million

funny how that happens.