GDT: St. Louis Blues @ Detroit Red Wings

[Dotter]

Wings are drafting between 5th and 12th, and more likely between 7th and 9th. Who is going to be available at #8?

Time to start doing some prospect research.

 

[TheMule93]

Mantha had a ridiculous CF% of 90% today. On the ice for 10 shot attempts for, and only one against. Larkin and tatar were 77% and 78% respectively. Domination. Too bad they didn't score, they definitely generated chances.

Mantha and Tatar also weren't on the ice for a single shot against. Mantha not even a scoring chance against.

edit: This is for 5v5 play only

 

[Heaton]

Mantha was good, Z was brutal.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

I thought "Holland's rebuild" was supposed to be a team that was somewhat competitive and used veterans to inflate their position in the standings but had no real chance to accomplish anything. This team is heading straight for the bottom 3-5 (again). Remind me again why Holland rebuild through the top of the draft is bad but some other GM doing the same thing would be good?

But there's a meaningful difference between flying and just throwing yourself at the ground and missing.

You get a lot more kudos if you do the right thing in the first place than if you try to do the wrong thing, fail at it, and bumble into the right thing.

 

[Claypool]

Good attempt. Hopefully they’ll do better next game.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

My assessment of the game:

No system. Whether it's the guys not playing the system they're taught or the system sucks, either way, no one knows where their teammates are.
No support. The guy with the puck is on his own. Good luck. I'll watch from over here.
A bunch of kids that are inconsistent. You hope they don't all take a game off at the same time.
Crappy ice. Seriously, fix it, Ilitch.
I'm entertained by Jensen getting knocked around all over the ice. Does he weigh 90 lbs? He's scrappy, though. I appreciate his drive.
I'm struggling to see Frk's future on this team.
When Nielsen, Helm, and Glendening are by far your most dangerous offensive line, you need to fix something.

They were the line that ended up scoring but they weren't the most dangerous offensive line today.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Man this talk about shots and goaltending is laughable. Detroit ended with 20% more shots and most were nothing chances from the perimeter. Look at the Blues goals- 2 breakaways, an absolute rocket snipe, seeing-eye low wrister from Bouwmeester, lost coverage and and empty net for Schenn, etc.

The real story is what others have said recently: a legitimate contender like St.Louis, who is worlds ahead of the Wings in strength and cohesiveness, can sleepwalk through a game like this, just like the Wings could do in their heyday.

Yeah we just have be patient with Holland's rebuild. Thanks, but I'll pass.

I generally agree with your post but today it actually wasn't a bunch of perimeter shots. The Wings had good scoring chances.

I definitely agree though that the Blues are a legit team and it shows against the Wings.

 

[lomekian]

??? We have our own opinions which is fine. Mantha, Larkin, and AA have been hyped up a bit and may be some Wings fans are disappointed that they aren't true #1 drivers.

I personally am less critical of where our prospect and 1st contract RFAs end up. They'll be what they are and (hopefully) be paid accordingly.

Much more frustrating is our overpaid veterans like Nielsen, 5.3mil Tatar, Danny D, and for me especially Abdelkader. I've slowly begun to loathe the contract and the player he's regressed to.

It's a dark time in Hockeytown and for how great we were the pain is understandable.

While we all have concerns about the longer term impact of Abby's contract, he is on pace for his best point scoring season by a margin, having played half of his games to date on the 3rd line.

 

[dragonballgtz]

Skimmed through the game. For the most part I thought the Wings played decent game. It wasn't a game where they just gave up and rolled over.

So Howard cost them a game but Howard has saved the Wings bacon enough times this season that I don't care. Since around mid-Nov his GAA has come up mostly due to the Wings playing like crap in front of him. This game and the MTL game were bad so I expect at least an opportunity for Mrazek to out of all of this.

Only thing that could have gone better is if Larkin, AA, or Mantha scored or got some points.

 

[Dotter]

While we all have concerns about the longer term impact of Abby's contract, he is on pace for his best point scoring season by a margin, having played half of his games to date on the 3rd line.

I got plowed last season when I said Abby is struggling (like other players on the team). People said this is who he is since he doesn't have Datsyuk deflecting pucks off his ass anymore... or something along those lines.

With Abby's consistency of being an overall physical (and importantly) healthy player, I disagree with all those who claim his contract is bad. It's not un-moveable. It's not a great contract, either but certainly not devastating.

 

[NickH8]

Wings are drafting between 5th and 12th, and more likely between 7th and 9th. Who is going to be available at #8?

Time to start doing some prospect research.

Joe Veleno(C), Oliver Wahlstrom(C/W), Ty Smith(D), Rasmus Kupari(C), Quinton Hughes(D)

 

[jkutswings]

Wings are drafting between 5th and 12th, and more likely between 7th and 9th. Who is going to be available at #8?

Time to start doing some prospect research.

You might have to aim a bit higher. They're currently in 7th, and teams 3-6 each have 1-2 games in hand. Not to mention the possibility of selling Green (or more) by the deadline.

 

[Dotter]

Unless DRWs hate those two D you posted
(Ty Smith, Quinton Hughes), it's likely one of those centers. Probably down to whoever is bigger and has the best skating abilities/agility.

If neither get their attention, plan on a bigger center with IQ. They may not focus on size first, but it will probably be a big consideration. They'll probably take the smaller sized IQ guys in the 5th-7th round.

 

[Bondurant]

Don't worry, folks. Kenny has a plan. That plan is playoff contention.

 

[One Blurred Eye]

While we all have concerns about the longer term impact of Abby's contract, he is on pace for his best point scoring season by a margin, having played half of his games to date on the 3rd line.

He's far from the team's worst player right now obviously, but it's important to note that at this point in the season last year, league wide the average goals scored per game was approx. 5.2ish, and this year it's 5.9ish. That, along with most of his points being assists (his G to A ratio tends closer to 1:1), his production so far strikes as suspicious, probably the favorable shake of statistical noise, at the very least maybe it's not quite the improvement over last season the raw numbers would have us believe. League-wide scoring tends to dip to its lowest point between games 350-750, so it'll be interesting to see by the end of January if his rate holds up or regresses substantially over the next six to eight weeks.

With Abby's consistency of being an overall physical (and importantly) healthy player, I disagree with all those who claim his contract is bad. It's not un-moveable. It's not a great contract, either but certainly not devastating.

He's averaged 10 games lost a season over the last four years. Yes, one of those seasons was a full 82, and I think a suspension or two in there skews it a bit, but he's not getting any younger. It's a pretty bad contract for the type of player that Justin is and for the exceptional amount of evidence that shows how quickly such players fall off on the other side of 30. If he can buck the trend, all the better for us, but I won't be counting on it and Holland shouldn't have either, especially in the context of how poorly his other signings have panned out.

 

[HIFE]

I thought "Holland's rebuild" was supposed to be a team that was somewhat competitive and used veterans to inflate their position in the standings but had no real chance to accomplish anything. This team is heading straight for the bottom 3-5 (again). Remind me again why Holland rebuild through the top of the draft is bad but some other GM doing the same thing would be good?

All I can say is I find it somewhat ugly the way this is going down. Unlike those who seem to trust Holland unconditionally, the majority of his signings the last years I have strongly disliked. Richards, Cleary, Miller, Daley, Abdelkader, etc. By their own doing management have created/allowed our terrible defense. Letting Hudler walk was a mistake. The deadline deal for Cole and Zidlicky is the perfect example of what I consider a loser move.

Someone said it well in another thread- the rebuild could be expedited. I read claim the Wings are rebuilding all while Illich's baseball team begins a true tear down rebuild. There are multiple paths the Wings could choose to tread into. Instead they appear content to do nothing while the forces of nature erode and swallow alive what was until fairly recently a top end hockey brain-trust. I think Detroit needs to get active again, in each department, regenerating the dedication to excellence. I thought we learned from Edmonton there's more to managing than higher draft picks lol.

 

[Dotter]

I don't even know what that even means. Force Zetterberg and Kronwall to retirement? Trade zetterberg so recapture penalty hits us? Sell everyone over the age of 23? Run a team of Glendennings and bad contracts sold to us from other teams looking for us to take their bad bad contracts in exchange for draft picks?

I'm not even sure. I think maybe on PS4 NHL 2018 there's a universal hypothetical better way? Dont know, don't play tv games. But in real life going for the long term, I am not convinced over what Ken Holland had already demonstrated last season. Sell Smith, Vanek, Jurco, Ott, whoever else...

This season sell Green, Booth, AA/Frk and Wilson (already sold) and I'd be happy to get rid of one of Tatar/Nyquist but we don't have a replacement for top 6 winger. Bring up Svechnikov next season.

 

[Lampedampe]

I suppose that our goalies are in on the tanking?

 

[jkutswings]

This season sell Green, Booth, AA/Frk and Wilson (already sold) and I'd be happy to get rid of one of Tatar/Nyquist but we don't have a replacement for top 6 winger. Bring up Svechnikov next season.

I'm confused. This last paragraph is a decent example of the type of rebuild that many fans are asking for, but that you've previously railed against as a tank.

 

[HIFE]

I don't even know what that even means. Force Zetterberg and Kronwall to retirement? Trade zetterberg so recapture penalty hits us? Sell everyone over the age of 23? Run a team of Glendennings and bad contracts sold to us from other teams looking for us to take their bad bad contracts in exchange for draft picks?

I'm not even sure. I think maybe on PS4 NHL 2018 there's a universal hypothetical better way? Dont know, don't play tv games. But in real life going for the long term, I am not convinced over what Ken Holland had already demonstrated last season. Sell Smith, Vanek, Jurco, Ott, whoever else...

This season sell Green, Booth, AA/Frk and Wilson (already sold) and I'd be happy to get rid of one of Tatar/Nyquist but we don't have a replacement for top 6 winger. Bring up Svechnikov next season.

I don't think anyone claims to have the exact answers. Very few actually believe in a "scorched earth" strategy. Just pointing out that we (and management) are free to act out of impatience. Emotion can be a motivator for change. Some fans would feel encouraged with one or two aggressive moves to alter the current program. I wouldn't mind a shakeup. I don't enjoy seeing workers fired but when the organization is failing something has to change.

 

[Bench]

Mantha was good, Z was brutal.

I seriously wonder if Z wants to come back next year at this point. His point pace is the lowest it's been since his rookie year. Next year is his salary drops over 50%, too.

Maybe he pulls a Shane Doan and sticks it out through everything, but man, it's hard watching him struggle.

 

[Oddbob]

Didn't watch the game, and didn't feel like reading 11 pages after a loss. Did we plays as bad as 6-1 suggests? Was Howard/Mrazek awful? Horrible team effort? Or was this one of those games that was closer than the score suggests, and just got out of hand?

 

[Mlotek]

While we all have concerns about the longer term impact of Abby's contract, he is on pace for his best point scoring season by a margin, having played half of his games to date on the 3rd line.

I doubt Abdelkader can continue the current scoring pace.


Wonder what impact those top line players have on Abby's points.

Abdelkader Recorded Points without Larkin, Tatar, Nyquist, Zetterberg: 2

Abdelkader Recorded Points with Larkin, Tatar, Nyquist, Zetterberg: 16

Justin Abdelkader 2017-18 Scoring Log | Hockey-Reference.com

 

[HIFE]

Didn't watch the game, and didn't feel like reading 11 pages after a loss. Did we plays as bad as 6-1 suggests? Was Howard/Mrazek awful? Horrible team effort? Or was this one of those games that was closer than the score suggests, and just got out of hand?

Yes. Yes. Yes. No.

Just kidding! Funny though I'm sure the question would receive about 50 different replies. It's fascinating- we're watching the same game... yet we're not.

 

[Dotter]

I'm confused. This last paragraph is a decent example of the type of rebuild that many fans are asking for, but that you've previously railed against as a tank.

I'm fine with trading Vanek, Smith, Green, Jurco and etc...

I just don't want to see a "Shanaplan" here. I want Wings, as a team, put their best foot forward and try to win games. I want to see Ken Holland sign the Greens, OTTs, Booths, and Daleys of the world so they can win more games than not... and have assets to trade off for free picks.

I don't consider that a tank. I consider that smart asset management. And I consider that a GM giving the team players to help them succeed. Lets face it, Barkovs, McDavids, Eckblads of the world are not hitting free agency. So we can go ahead and spend the cap. Those players are not ever going to be available for free.

That's what I would call a natural tank. Ken Holland is trying to build a competitive team, but the young guns don't have the *it* factor to drive the team to gloryland. But Kenny is giving them the players to help support them if they do ever learn how to drive the bus.