Post-Game Talk: So much bad

[Behind Enemy Lines]

I think some of you are giving Vegas way too much credit with regards to going after Adin Hill because they saw what nobody else in the league did. I think they were getting hammered by injuries in net and were simply grabbing some cheap options.

Don't believe anyone who says they knew he'd suddenly be one of the best goalies in the league overnight after years as a floating backup around the league.

Think it was a qualified 'get' by them. Goalie whisperer Sean Burke knew Hill going back to junior playing and sharing the net with Burke's son. Burke was part of the Coyotes management group that drafted Adin Hill. Hill had solid numbers on marginal NHL teams. Vegas management and scouting staff also have significant network and direct experience in Western Canada so would have some sense of Hill's abilities.

Forecast a Cup run goalie, no. But big picture Vegas new coach Cassidy installed strong systems which protected their goaltending. They never played a game last season with their #1 goaltender and rolled through 5 tenders due to injury yet reduced goals against by 19.

"Maybe the Golden Knights’ MVP should be goaltending coach Sean Burke, who pushed for the acquisition of Hill, a former junior teammate of Burke’s son, Brendan, with the Portland Winterhawks nearly a decade ago."

EDIT: Weird. Story link doesn't work: Sportsnet, How journeyman Adin Hill soared from fourth-stringer to Stanley Cup Final starter

This is where strong pro scouting can win the day.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

Think it was a qualified 'get' by them. Goalie whisperer Sean Burke knew Hill going back to junior playing and sharing the net with Burke's son. Burke was part of the Coyotes management group that drafted Adin Hill. Hill had solid numbers on marginal NHL teams. Vegas management and scouting staff also have significant network and direct experience in Western Canada so would have some sense of Hill's abilities.

Forecast a Cup run goalie, no. But big picture Vegas new coach Cassidy installed strong systems which protected their goaltending. They never played a game last season with their #1 goaltender and rolled through 5 tenders due to injury yet reduced goals against by 19.

"Maybe the Golden Knights’ MVP should be goaltending coach Sean Burke, who pushed for the acquisition of Hill, a former junior teammate of Burke’s son, Brendan, with the Portland Winterhawks nearly a decade ago."

EDIT: Weird. Story link doesn't work: Sportsnet, How journeyman Adin Hill soared from fourth-stringer to Stanley Cup Final starter

This is where strong pro scouting can win the day.

I have said that Vegas Cup MVP should have been Burke for the reasons you’ve listed. Burke was their secret weapon.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

I have said that Vegas Cup MVP should have been Burke for the reasons you’ve listed. Burke was their secret weapon.

Meanwhile, in Edmonton….

 

[Stoneman89]

Think it was a qualified 'get' by them. Goalie whisperer Sean Burke knew Hill going back to junior playing and sharing the net with Burke's son. Burke was part of the Coyotes management group that drafted Adin Hill. Hill had solid numbers on marginal NHL teams. Vegas management and scouting staff also have significant network and direct experience in Western Canada so would have some sense of Hill's abilities.

Forecast a Cup run goalie, no. But big picture Vegas new coach Cassidy installed strong systems which protected their goaltending. They never played a game last season with their #1 goaltender and rolled through 5 tenders due to injury yet reduced goals against by 19.

"Maybe the Golden Knights’ MVP should be goaltending coach Sean Burke, who pushed for the acquisition of Hill, a former junior teammate of Burke’s son, Brendan, with the Portland Winterhawks nearly a decade ago."

EDIT: Weird. Story link doesn't work: Sportsnet, How journeyman Adin Hill soared from fourth-stringer to Stanley Cup Final starter

This is where strong pro scouting can win the day.

Doubt many others in the hockey world saw the same thing, otherwise he would have been highly sought after throughout his prior 5 year NHL career, but good for Burke to see something others clearly didn't. Bruce Cassidy is the key on that team. Always been an excellent coach and has his teams play solid defence that protects their goalies and a strong forechecking system.

 

[belair]

Due to his relationship with McD its tough on him but without that its a slamdunk he'd be saying by now he wants out. Superstars owe it to themselves to play on a team with a realistic chance of winning. Drai scoring 13goals last playoffs in 12GP is a strong indication this team is not going to provide that opportunity.

I struggle to see the logic behind this argument. The Oilers have consistently surged around playoff time and have added year over year to a team that is seeing success in the playoffs. How many other teams out there with $13m lying around are going to have that kind of flexibility to ice a roster with a 'greater chance of winning?'

Stating Leon's counting stats from last year's playoffs suggesting that 'no help' was the primary reason they were eliminated conveniently glosses over the fact that his line was a significant reason for their loss.

If the Edmonton Oilers are going to win a Stanley Cup, yes, the depth needs to improve. It has to show up. But our two stars need to play a responsible game. These guys shoot the lights out year over year but at the same time, they'll bleed goals against that can come close to negating the offense. That just isn't an approach that's going to give you the best chance to string 16 wins together.

 

[KCC]

Team has flat out stopped working until third periods. And now the goaltending is also declining. It's a perfect storm of the worst things you want at this time of the year. But, hey, whatever. As long as they make the playoffs and can click at the right time who really cares I guess. lol

 

[Drivesaitl]

The question is not meant to attack the player. Just that he has some innate chemistry with McDavid that might be hard to replicate with others, no matter how talented. So many of his points are generated while on the PP or when paired up with McDavid.

Despite you alleging same hour that Drai is slower than ancient Cory Perry. Drai makes Perry look like Gaetan Boucher you alleged.

Oh wait you did that in a different thread expecting it not to be seen.

I struggle to see the logic behind this argument. The Oilers have consistently surged around playoff time and have added year over year to a team that is seeing success in the playoffs. How many other teams out there with $13m lying around are going to have that kind of flexibility to ice a roster with a 'greater chance of winning?'

Stating Leon's counting stats from last year's playoffs suggesting that 'no help' was the primary reason they were eliminated conveniently glosses over the fact that his line was a significant reason for their loss.

If the Edmonton Oilers are going to win a Stanley Cup, yes, the depth needs to improve. It has to show up. But our two stars need to play a responsible game. These guys shoot the lights out year over year but at the same time, they'll bleed goals against that can come close to negating the offense. That just isn't an approach that's going to give you the best chance to string 16 wins together.

So Drais responsible for all the GA and the Goalie who was shit all playoffs, and the D who were lukewarm if anything have nothing to do with it? Drai also responsible for the shit coaching that started Skinner every game, refused to even start Campbell, and that refused to make matching adjustments?

 

[belair]

This comment gives me mainboard vibes. I think his points take a bit of a hit, but nothing major. I think it depends a lot on the other team. Lots of teams have other stars or superstars he would get time with. If he’s the 1C, he’ll get the best wingers and not shit like Brown, Rieder, Yamamoto, etc. That alone will offset the lack of a McJesus.

On another team you're not recreating that top PP unit. That's a big chunk of his production. His offense would take a pretty significant hit being a top dog elsewhere. I'm not sure he'd have the ability to freewheel on a more defensively sound team like LA, Boston or Vegas, too.

 

[Stoneman89]

Despite you alleging same hour that Drai is slower than ancient Cory Perry. Drai makes Perry look like Gaetan Boucher you alleged.

Oh wait you did that in a different thread expecting it not to be seen.


So Drais responsible for all the GA and the Goalie who was shit all playoffs, and the D who were lukewarm if anything have nothing to do with it? Drai also responsible for the shit coaching that started Skinner every game, refused to even start Campbell, and that refused to make matching adjustments?

I hoped you would be the one to see it, so it makes me feel really good that you've acknowledged that. Tongue in cheek obviously, but you're wound up so tightly in Draisaitl defence again, it doesn't surprise me you can't take a little humour today.

And now you've changed your tune and are blaming the coaching (correct) for playing Skinner every game, instead of saying it was all his decision like you did an hour ago. You might want to be consistent with your rants.

 

[belair]

Despite you alleging same hour that Drai is slower than ancient Cory Perry. Drai makes Perry look like Gaetan Boucher you alleged.

Oh wait you did that in a different thread expecting it not to be seen.

So Drais respnsible for all the GA and the Goalie who was shit all playoffs, and the D who were lukewarm if anything have nothing to do with it?

Draisaitl carries a lot of responsibility for what happens when his line is on the ice. He is the catalyst. And you watch his game. He's prone to the same weak turnovers when things aren't going their way.

We're talking about a player who's stated in the past that he aspires to be a Selke caliber center at some point in his career. Six goals in Game 1 and 2 and then Vegas clearly has the answer. Did he change his approach?

 

[EnufAlready]

Apparently one poster on here saw his signs of greatness and a SC pedigree long before anyone else.

Chronic shoulder dislocation from patting ones own back….

 

[Drivesaitl]

Draisaitl carries a lot of responsibility for what happens when his line is on the ice. He is the catalyst. And you watch his game. He's prone to the same weak turnovers when things aren't going their way.

We're talking about a player who's stated in the past that he aspires to be a Selke caliber center at some point in his career. Six goals in Game 1 and 2 and then Vegas clearly has the answer. Did he change his approach?

We're talking about one of a few players that carried a club all year playing against a loaded Vegas team so stock full of depth they can park their superstars and just introduce them to playoffs. Drai was fatigued at some point in Vegas series. I would say after two games of it.

But hey critique the player that was the main reason we even got to round 2.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I hoped you would be the one to see it, so it makes me feel really good that you've acknowledged that. Tongue in cheek obviously, but you're wound up so tightly in Draisaitl defence again, it doesn't surprise me you can't take a little humour today.

And now you've changed your tune and are blaming the coaching (correct) for playing Skinner every game, instead of saying it was all his decision like you did an hour ago. You might want to be consistent with your rants.

Harder to have a sense of humor today after yesterday game and in the middle of a blizzard. Don't think I changed my tune on the Playoff game start decisions. Again as I stated Woody conferred with Schwartz and Skinner on goalie starts. Dustin further stated he would ask Skinner each time if he felt he was ready and wanted the start. At some point perhaps Skinners own readiness assessment could be questioned.

But Woody lost his job anyway..which I think was due.

 

[Stoneman89]

Harder to have a sense of humor today after yesterday game and in the middle of a blizzard. Don't think I changed my tune on the Playoff game start decisions. Again as I stated Woody conferred with Schwartz and Skinner on goalie starts. Dustin further stated he would ask Skinner each time if he felt he was ready and wanted the start. At some point perhaps Skinners own readiness assessment could be questioned.

But Woody lost his job anyway..which I think was due.

It's your problem if you've lost your sense of humour, no one else's.

And if Skinner said he was ready, and wasn't, (for whatever reason, but you can speculate all you want), yes you could question that. But you stated unequivocally that he made the decision himself that he would be playing, and not the coaches final decision. You can try to back out of it all you want but it's all written down. And that is a ridiculous assessment.

 

[Drivesaitl]

It's your problem if you've lost your sense of humour, no one else's.

And if Skinner said he was ready, and wasn't, (for whatever reason, but you can speculate all you want), yes you could question that. But you stated unequivocally that he made the decision himself that he would be playing, and not the coaches final decision. You can try to back out of it all you want but it's all written down. And that is a ridiculous assessment.

Getting tired of you telling everbody their comments are ridiculous several times today. If thats how you want to engage again I won't be seeing it and won't care either.

Oh but you'll say you're joking. When you're not. Truth be told.

 

[Sheikyerbouti]

Stating Leon's counting stats from last year's playoffs suggesting that 'no help' was the primary reason they were eliminated conveniently glosses over the fact that his line was a significant reason for their loss.

He had 120 points last year and was a plus 7. You can track the ups and downs of this team with Leon's effort imo.

He has very poor habits and they hurt this team all the time, even when he is playing at his best.


Even in the playoffs when he turns it on, he still gives up a lot of easy goals to the other team

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Doubt many others in the hockey world saw the same thing, otherwise he would have been highly sought after throughout his prior 5 year NHL career, but good for Burke to see something others clearly didn't. Bruce Cassidy is the key on that team. Always been an excellent coach and has his teams play solid defence that protects their goalies and a strong forechecking system.

Had decent pro numbers. Alleged some conditioning and commitment wobbles. But prototypical size and raw tools to have latent potential in a position that develops later and limited to one starter.

The Cassidy hire was a franchise game changer. Vegas build a blueprint to insulate goaltenders with an elite, deep blue line and the systems play drilled into them via Cassidy. They had massive tender issues all year and weren't faced when starter went down in the Oiler series. Good to be lucky and lucky to be good.

Conversely we saw the Oilers go a massive nose dive when they lost their starter Smith for a big chunk of the season. Oil do not have the personnel or disciplined, structured play to overcome that adversity.

 

[K1984]

That's the maddening thing. I know you can't have incredible jump every minute you are on the ice, but when he's able to do it while going in on the goalie for a scoring chance, you wonder if he's that banged up, how is he even able to do it then? And regarding that play, he certainly should have been penalized for running Vladar, but we caught a break there. So maybe not the smartest move by him, but in hindsight, got away with one. His punishment mostly stems from slowing down to a crawl and then stopping and trying to protect the puck. He's an easy target to hit when he does that. It's maddening when he comes barrelling into the other teams end, and then stops and pivots just inside the line nearly every time now. And then the passes either hit a stick or get picked off. I'd like to see him go down the boards and then let the other team try to stop him. I bet he'd draw some penalties. But yah, it's a lot easier and less demanding to stop just inside the blue line and try to make passes.

That play where he (refreshingly) took it to the net was following up two straight botched entry attempts that I *think* were both by him. Being at the game I felt that that was a move more in frustration than a first choice. That type of play from him has been rare this year to say the least.

It was the most effective play he made all night, however, so one can only hope it results in an epiphany.

 

[belair]

He had 120 points last year and was a plus 7. You can track the ups and downs of this team with Leon's effort imo.

He has very poor habits and they hurt this team all the time, even when he is playing at his best.


Even in the playoffs when he turns it on, he still gives up a lot of easy goals to the other team

And that's the problem when it comes to critiquing a player that carries that much of a team's offensive contribution. Are they the reason the team wins with great frequency? Absolutely. But that approach, when misused, can also be the very reason why the team loses important games.

We're talking about playoff competition. These teams have scouted our guys enough to pinpoint their tendencies. And last night was an example of a team that keyed in on the overly aggressive nature of our top scorers.

There's still a lot of maturing to go for the both of them.

 

[mkatcherin00]

Those shots weren’t close to being equal despite the count. Flames should have been up 5-6 nothing after the first if we’re being honest with ourselves. The Grade A count was probably 2 to 1 for the Flames.

This games first period was the same as the last CGY game in their burn. We should have been up like 5-0 after one, but their goalie saved everything.

 

[GOilers88]

Think it was a qualified 'get' by them. Goalie whisperer Sean Burke knew Hill going back to junior playing and sharing the net with Burke's son. Burke was part of the Coyotes management group that drafted Adin Hill. Hill had solid numbers on marginal NHL teams. Vegas management and scouting staff also have significant network and direct experience in Western Canada so would have some sense of Hill's abilities.

Forecast a Cup run goalie, no. But big picture Vegas new coach Cassidy installed strong systems which protected their goaltending. They never played a game last season with their #1 goaltender and rolled through 5 tenders due to injury yet reduced goals against by 19.

"Maybe the Golden Knights’ MVP should be goaltending coach Sean Burke, who pushed for the acquisition of Hill, a former junior teammate of Burke’s son, Brendan, with the Portland Winterhawks nearly a decade ago."

EDIT: Weird. Story link doesn't work: Sportsnet, How journeyman Adin Hill soared from fourth-stringer to Stanley Cup Final starter

This is where strong pro scouting can win the day.

I'll concede that all may be well and true, but if it was such a qualified get, why wasn't he in the picture for the playoffs? He only got a shot because of compounding injuries.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

I'll concede that all may be well and true, but if it was such a qualified get, why wasn't he in the picture for the playoffs? He only got a shot because of compounding injuries.

Why I put "Forecast a Cup run goalie, no."

Vegas is also a team that picked up Quick at trade deadline. Clear they had issues and concerns about goaltending going into the playoffs. But other point I made was about their elite coach, his systems play and deep, very good blue line, all of which fortified 5 non-number one goaltenders through regular season. When opportunity knocked, Hill stepped in and stepped up.

The Vegas model reinforces it is possible to win with uncertainty in net. But you need a rock solid team defending system and commitment and a great, deep blue line. And great pro scouting that can help pan for latent, unrealized potential for a lottery ticket.

 

[Lacaar]

My gut feeling for the recent play since the break pretty much boils down to
"Due to lack of interest". Not really any ill intent. They're just not good at getting complete buy in and motivation until some urgency is injected from the ENTIRE lineup. Most nights there's always a handful of players that are just a disaster. Turn over machines.. Leon, Nurse, this comes from the leadership as well. Understandably it mush be hard to be McDavid focus'd.

They played like this at the beginning of the season. Meh season... so long till playoffs. It wasn't until they meh'd it soo much they got their coach fired that they snapped to it. Kicked ass and lit the league on fire.

Now it's meh time again.

I suspect once the trade deadline comes and passes. They'll snap back to attention and go on another run until the playoffs start.

My biggest concern is that once the playoffs start. They'll have that swoon game 1. And if they're fortunate to win the first series.. they'll swoon game 1 the next. Until Eventually they run into an opponent they can't beat 4 out of 6 games.

 

[Forgot About Drai]

I dont think its shitting on Drai to say hes been pretty inconsitent this year. Even then he is still our best players, sans Mcdavid.

Although inconsistent Drai is still really good, for this team we need him to be amazing. He hasnt been consistently amazing for awhile now IMO

 

[drede]

The book on him has been out since the playoffs last year..
Upstairs, anywhere is a goal,90% of the time.
Then there's his issue moving laterally....
He can't.

Havnt watched alot of Oilers games has he always had issues moving laterally or did he get a injury that's causing issues lately??