Post-Game Talk: So much bad

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Yup I dont get it, fans will blame Drai but defend Skinner lmao

Tells you all you need to know about those same fans

Some fans will blame Skinner but defend Holland lmao.

If only you held literally anyone else in the org to the same standards.

 

[Stoneman89]

Pick your poison. Hard to say.

Due to his relationship with McD its tough on him but without that its a slamdunk he'd be saying by now he wants out. Superstars owe it to themselves to play on a team with a realistic chance of winning. Drai scoring 13goals last playoffs in 12GP is a strong indication this team is not going to provide that opportunity.

That Drai isn't even appreciated in this market might even come into play. I mean Drai could go to Boston or NY and everybody would love him. Oddly enough in Edmonton they don't. Wouldn't escape Leon that he would be the marquee player on around 25 teams and that he's spent his whole career not even being talked up.

I suspect that due to the optics of trading a superstar that this org would be reluctant to do that due to how many times this org has done something like that. But the alternative of just losing him also bad.

Holland is weak at reading these situations too. Hopefully he's just the figurehead. I think what happens with Drai is the negotiation becomes an impasse, the league suspects that he is, and we end up either having him play through contract in the hopes we nail a cup, or get diminished assets for him.

Do you think if Drai goes to another team that he gets anywhere near the points he's accumulated here while playing with McJeezus?

 

[Duke74]

Calling Leo a power forward these days is laughable. His ONLY power move is puck protection. He avoids contact without the puck more than Connor Brown does.

His laziness isnt perception. Its real and folks cut him slack because hes an immense talent.

Unfortunately we wont win much with that style especially since 97 has lost his mind defensively lately as well.

He’s definitely had a down year, which is frustrating for all of us. I notice the he isn’t as physical this year and I wonder if there’s an underlying injury. Not excusing him, just speculating. I’d love to see him drive to the net more rather than always passing it off.

Listed at 209. Why 225 mid season? Skinner diet as some posters would suggest?

I don’t know how accurate those measurements are but he seems bigger. I could be wrong though.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

Some fans will blame Skinner but defend Holland lmao.

If only you held literally anyone else in the org to the same standards.

I mean fair enough. Holland is the one that left us with this garbage goaltending.

 

[Stoneman89]

This he does do, and that can't happen. But this was after his goalie let in 3 goals on around 5 Flames scoring chances and with the goaltending this season, or ever, he's seen that movie all to many times. Both McD and drai are frustrated and I suspect there are reasons for that. Of the two its Connor McDavids fault that an imposter like Connor Brown is here, and that Foegele who often floats, is still here. McD went heavily to bat for both of these guys.

The one thing that can be stated of Drai is he's a superstar that doesn't make roster or linemate demands. Connor McDavid unfortunately does.

This is exactly the type of season one would see from a superstar if they were entertaining options of where they will be next and looking at all options. Drai as hinted at that, and I think its true. The seasons start gave me added reason to think that.


I suspect if you looked at him he'd have bruises/contusions on him most of the time. His style of play eats a lot of punishment as it does for power forwards in the NHL. Still, he looked to have plenty of jump beating contain multiple times last night and steaming into Vladar. Drai created that goal with his determination. Game previous he was involved in both Oilers goals. With 5G 9A last 14GP he's probably playing well enough. WE have a lot of players here that shouldn't even be seeing toi.

That's the maddening thing. I know you can't have incredible jump every minute you are on the ice, but when he's able to do it while going in on the goalie for a scoring chance, you wonder if he's that banged up, how is he even able to do it then? And regarding that play, he certainly should have been penalized for running Vladar, but we caught a break there. So maybe not the smartest move by him, but in hindsight, got away with one. His punishment mostly stems from slowing down to a crawl and then stopping and trying to protect the puck. He's an easy target to hit when he does that. It's maddening when he comes barrelling into the other teams end, and then stops and pivots just inside the line nearly every time now. And then the passes either hit a stick or get picked off. I'd like to see him go down the boards and then let the other team try to stop him. I bet he'd draw some penalties. But yah, it's a lot easier and less demanding to stop just inside the blue line and try to make passes.

 

[Duke74]

Do you think if Drai goes to another team that he gets anywhere near the points he's accumulated here while playing with McJeezus?

This comment gives me mainboard vibes. I think his points take a bit of a hit, but nothing major. I think it depends a lot on the other team. Lots of teams have other stars or superstars he would get time with. If he’s the 1C, he’ll get the best wingers and not shit like Brown, Rieder, Yamamoto, etc. That alone will offset the lack of a McJesus.

 

[Sra1974]

I mean fair enough. Holland is the one that left us with this garbage goaltending.

That may be the single thing everyone can agree on, Holland is a failure

 

[RegDunlop]

Janmark rapid fired his fists into some jabronis face. And got a goal. That was fun.

The rest of that game can eat shit.

Was going to say this last night -

For those fans under 50, you can take solace in the fact that for a whole decade we beat the living shit out of these guys and beat them scoring at will. Games like these last night make me reminisce. We play them once more. We will prevail

 

[Drivesaitl]

Do you think if Drai goes to another team that he gets anywhere near the points he's accumulated here while playing with McJeezus?

Drai is topten in P/G in a relatively down season where he's not even been on a line with McD most of the season. Only on the PP for most of it. Even on that unit Drai is scoring not just from McD passes by nuge passes etc. you think other top playmakers on clubs won't be able to make passes to Drai, or receive them?

Sorry, but Drai has shown he's MORE adaptable than McD to playing with a variety of linemates and linemate skillsets. Drai was even making Foegele/McLeod work. Does McD do these things. McD can play well with other linemates when he's getting the odd shift with them. Drai plays entire games and seasons here with subpar linemates. he has. Check out how awful Yamamoto has been in Seattle.

Yeah Drai will survive in 100pt range wherever he is.

Thing is Drai is headed for a 65pt EV season in which he's been away from McD most of season. He's been LESS reliant on McD than at anytime during the Woody tenure.

This comment gives me mainboard vibes. I think his points take a bit of a hit, but nothing major. I think it depends a lot on the other team. Lots of teams have other stars or superstars he would get time with. If he’s the 1C, he’ll get the best wingers and not shit like Brown, Rieder, Yamamoto, etc. That alone will offset the lack of a McJesus.

Yep. Drai gets mega pts even playing with say Nuge. Drai is always going to be on first unit PP wherever he lands. Too good not to. On pretty much any team that is going to be getting him +40pts. He might do better because new clubs will have new ingredients, new setplays, and new PP directions that are less scouted than this one.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Heres an interesting experiment for anybody complaining about how bad Drai is this season. He's 9th in league in P/G and playing "terrible" according to some here, and he's got the same statlines, identical to say Petersson or JT Miller who many pundits have been trying to boast as MVP level seasons. He has identical stats to Mitch Marner.

So perspective, it would seem, is everything.

We've just been spoiled by the many seasons Drai greatly exceeded expectations and was part of our vaunted 1.2. But even McD hasn't been himself this season and Drai has less pts because McD has scored 1/3 of the goals he scored last year.

 

[Drivesaitl]

That's the maddening thing. I know you can't have incredible jump every minute you are on the ice, but when he's able to do it while going in on the goalie for a scoring chance, you wonder if he's that banged up, how is he even able to do it then? And regarding that play, he certainly should have been penalized for running Vladar, but we caught a break there. So maybe not the smartest move by him, but in hindsight, got away with one. His punishment mostly stems from slowing down to a crawl and then stopping and trying to protect the puck. He's an easy target to hit when he does that. It's maddening when he comes barrelling into the other teams end, and then stops and pivots just inside the line nearly every time now. And then the passes either hit a stick or get picked off. I'd like to see him go down the boards and then let the other team try to stop him. I bet he'd draw some penalties. But yah, it's a lot easier and less demanding to stop just inside the blue line and try to make passes.

Athletes can persevere through injury or cumulatively being banged up. When you are hurt or with certain injuries you can force yourself through on selective plays but are limited somewhat in overall pace and jump. With players like Mess when he around Drais age we saw similar thing. A Mess that was no longer jump speed on all rushes but would pick his spots in games when he spotted an opening to make a rush.

Unlike Drai Mess was not one of two players expected to carry a team every season. he had so much help. He had allstar lines all the time.

Also consider that in pro hockey the objective especially in playoffs is to slow opponent allstars down with constant hitting. Drai gets hit as much as anybody in hockey. it couldn't not impact him. The worry for me this season is McD is getting hit a lot more too. Its impacting them both, excuse pun. As opponents you hammer these guys silly to slow them down.

 

[GOilers88]

I think some of you are giving Vegas way too much credit with regards to going after Adin Hill because they saw what nobody else in the league did. I think they were getting hammered by injuries in net and were simply grabbing some cheap options.

Don't believe anyone who says they knew he'd suddenly be one of the best goalies in the league overnight after years as a floating backup around the league.

 

[Duke74]

That's the maddening thing. I know you can't have incredible jump every minute you are on the ice, but when he's able to do it while going in on the goalie for a scoring chance, you wonder if he's that banged up, how is he even able to do it then? And regarding that play, he certainly should have been penalized for running Vladar, but we caught a break there. So maybe not the smartest move by him, but in hindsight, got away with one. His punishment mostly stems from slowing down to a crawl and then stopping and trying to protect the puck. He's an easy target to hit when he does that. It's maddening when he comes barrelling into the other teams end, and then stops and pivots just inside the line nearly every time now. And then the passes either hit a stick or get picked off. I'd like to see him go down the boards and then let the other team try to stop him. I bet he'd draw some penalties. But yah, it's a lot easier and less demanding to stop just inside the blue line and try to make passes.

I agree with a lot of what you say here. I wish he’d just drive forward with a power move sometimes. This is what separates players like MacKinnon from him.

 

[Stoneman89]

This comment gives me mainboard vibes. I think his points take a bit of a hit, but nothing major. I think it depends a lot on the other team. Lots of teams have other stars or superstars he would get time with. If he’s the 1C, he’ll get the best wingers and not shit like Brown, Rieder, Yamamoto, etc. That alone will offset the lack of a McJesus.

The question is not meant to attack the player. Just that he has some innate chemistry with McDavid that might be hard to replicate with others, no matter how talented. So many of his points are generated while on the PP or when paired up with McDavid.

 

[Duke74]

The question is not meant to attack the player. Just that he has some innate chemistry with McDavid that might be hard to replicate with others, no matter how talented. So many of his points are generated while on the PP or when paired up with McDavid.

No worries. I agree about his chemistry with McDavid and McDavid seems to like playing with him. It would be interesting to see Draisaitl on another team to see how he fares. I can’t see him regressing to a 60-point player but I don’t see him hitting 125 either. Probably around 100ish give or take.

 

[Stoneman89]

I think some of you are giving Vegas way too much credit with regards to going after Adin Hill because they saw what nobody else in the league did. I think they were getting hammered by injuries in net and were simply grabbing some cheap options.

Don't believe anyone who says they knew he'd suddenly be one of the best goalies in the league overnight after years as a floating backup around the league.

Apparently one poster on here saw his signs of greatness and a SC pedigree long before anyone else.

 

[Stoneman89]

Drai is topten in P/G in a relatively down season where he's not even been on a line with McD most of the season. Only on the PP for most of it. Even on that unit Drai is scoring not just from McD passes by nuge passes etc. you think other top playmakers on clubs won't be able to make passes to Drai, or receive them?

Sorry, but Drai has shown he's MORE adaptable than McD to playing with a variety of linemates and linemate skillsets. Drai was even making Foegele/McLeod work. Does McD do these things. McD can play well with other linemates when he's getting the odd shift with them. Drai plays entire games and seasons here with subpar linemates. he has. Check out how awful Yamamoto has been in Seattle.

Yeah Drai will survive in 100pt range wherever he is.

Thing is Drai is headed for a 65pt EV season in which he's been away from McD most of season. He's been LESS reliant on McD than at anytime during the Woody tenure.


Yep. Drai gets mega pts even playing with say Nuge. Drai is always going to be on first unit PP wherever he lands. Too good not to. On pretty much any team that is going to be getting him +40pts. He might do better because new clubs will have new ingredients, new setplays, and new PP directions that are less scouted than this one.

I wouldn't put a ton of stock into him playing with Foegele and McLeod and them being great. That lasted 2-3 games at the most and then they went back to what they are. Again, you're missing my point about the chemistry Drai has with McDavid. That might be tough to replicate.

 

[frag2]

I think some of you are giving Vegas way too much credit with regards to going after Adin Hill because they saw what nobody else in the league did. I think they were getting hammered by injuries in net and were simply grabbing some cheap options.

Don't believe anyone who says they knew he'd suddenly be one of the best goalies in the league overnight after years as a floating backup around the league.

Yep. Vegas got lucky if anything

I agree with a lot of what you say here. I wish he’d just drive forward with a power move sometimes. This is what separates players like MacKinnon from him.

Well both play angry but for different reasons.

One channels that anger towards one goal, just winning. Mack is a douche bag to even his own teammates and he Dgaf as long as he wins.

Drai on the other hand plays angry when he’s got a beef to settle and he loses focus. Not exactly the smartest thing to do all the time, especially when hockey is seemingly a somewhat emotionally driven game

 

[The Panther]

We need a starting goalie. That Skinner isn't that was established in my mind last playoffs or before that. His strings of good stats have always been associated with the team in front of him playing airtight hockey.

Skinner is, and always an unathletic goalie that didn't come close to working hard enough on all aspects, skills, conditioning, strength, etc to properly be a starter at this level.

Skinner got to wear his playing in the sandbox pads again pretending he's Grant Fuhr.

Throw good and decent Shooters in front of Skinner and he inevitably gets exposed.

The critical insult was Drai scoring 4 goals in game 1 of Vegas series and the team still losing that game. Thanks Skinner!. Although the Oilers rallied to take game 2 I think Vegas got on board in that game 1 and started getting their scoring confidence with slumpbuster Skinner in net.

Thing is that teams with quality goaltending have to be extremely brutal in this league to give up 5,6 goals. With Skinner in net its relatively easy to arrive at that.

When the Flames were on top Skinner shit the bed giving up 3 goals in a period. A regular thing for him in first periods.

Skinners stats, every stat shows how average he is in net.

An interesting stat would be how many goals a goalie gives up where he isn't even close to making the stop. When Skinner isn't making a stop you can tell the goal in advance. His patented not even moving, not reacting. Goal light flashing.

I crap on Skinner, and I do, because he's a pro goalie and isn't even a professional athlete. That he's been so lax in his training, conditioning, and preparation.

Lots of nights Kings have trouble scoring. If we put Skinner in net again that would help them.

Skinner is not good enough, period, to depend on in playoffs this spring. If thats who we're landing on good luck with that. Skinner has shown he's incapable of having big games, of being key and reliable in huge games.

A lot of team play is predicated on the confidence in its goaltending. We saw that at start of season, we're seeing it now. In both instances it was Skinner shitting the bed.

...players that are just average, like Skinner, who wouldn't even be a #1 starter on around 30 teams in this league.

In conclusion, you irrationally hate Skinner.

Okay, I think we've got it. Maybe let it go.

Personally, I like Skinner and I think he's quite good -- not great, but quite good. Since the team woke up in mid-November, Skinner is 24-8-1 with a .912.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I wouldn't put a ton of stock into him playing with Foegele and McLeod and them being great. That lasted 2-3 games at the most and then they went back to what they are. Again, you're missing my point about the chemistry Drai has with McDavid. That might be tough to replicate.

Perennial allstar players figure it out. Drai would. There wouldn't be appreciably greater dependence of Drai relying on McD than there would be McD relying on Drai. Indeed McD seems to have to have the quality linemates every season even while scoring less goals.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

That's the maddening thing. I know you can't have incredible jump every minute you are on the ice, but when he's able to do it while going in on the goalie for a scoring chance, you wonder if he's that banged up, how is he even able to do it then? And regarding that play, he certainly should have been penalized for running Vladar, but we caught a break there. So maybe not the smartest move by him, but in hindsight, got away with one. His punishment mostly stems from slowing down to a crawl and then stopping and trying to protect the puck. He's an easy target to hit when he does that. It's maddening when he comes barrelling into the other teams end, and then stops and pivots just inside the line nearly every time now. And then the passes either hit a stick or get picked off. I'd like to see him go down the boards and then let the other team try to stop him. I bet he'd draw some penalties. But yah, it's a lot easier and less demanding to stop just inside the blue line and try to make passes.

Draisaitl is an incredible talent. He's essentially two players in one. As a McFinishing winger, he plays a high tempo game without primary puck transportation role, and able to find open ice to use his quick shot as an elite goal scorer. At centre, he's a strong power forward who plays slower, more puck control game and elite distributor. This year his goal scoring at EV hasn't been as strong and he's not getting enough shot volume. Draisaitl 14 EV goals (50% on PP). Hyman has 26 EV goals and Nugent Hopkins 12 EV (who's a third shot option at EV and probably fourth shot option on PP).
I'd like to see the breakdown of Draisaitl's shot totals and shooting % for PP and EV.

Line 1 was crushing it among NHL elite results all season. But it's probably time to move Nugent Hopkins off Line 1 to give Draisaitl a high IQ distributor to help get this team's 19% shooter more shot attempts and some puck transportation help to reduce the somewhat predictable inside blue line carry and curl. Spread the ice with two elite hockey IQ options to carry the puck in and reduce tendencies to pin Draisaitl just inside the blue line. A left wing zone entry should help get Draisaitl into middle slot to exploit his shooting ability.

Oil seem fairly predictable.

 

[Drivesaitl]

In conclusion, you irrationally hate Skinner.

Okay, I think we've got it. Maybe let it go.

Personally, I like Skinner and I think he's quite good -- not great, but quite good. Since the team woke up in mid-November, Skinner is 24-8-1 with a .912.

Nothing like specious selected sample stats. On the season Skinner is .901. Inconvenient, I realize.

At this point it would be shortsighted to think Skinner is a legit #1 goalie.

 

[iCanada]

In conclusion, you irrationally hate Skinner.

Okay, I think we've got it. Maybe let it go.

Personally, I like Skinner and I think he's quite good -- not great, but quite good. Since the team woke up in mid-November, Skinner is 24-8-1 with a .912.

Idk if hate is the right word. I also don't know if I would call it irrational.

It's irrational in my opinion to continue to defend a guy letting in 3 extra goals a game despite the Oilers as a whole having some of the best scoring chance against metrics in the entire league all the while Skinner has the worst high danger save percentage in the league.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Idk if hate is the right word. I also don't know if I would call it irrational.

It's irrational in my opinion to continue to defend a guy letting in 3 extra goals a game despite the Oilers as a whole having some of the best scoring chance against metrics in the entire league all the while Skinner has the worst high danger save percentage in the league.

Precisely.

In anycase this is a poster that was lambasting the fanbase just the other day saying the fans were unbalanced and unhinged for not liking how things are going. Probably better left ignored.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Idk if hate is the right word. I also don't know if I would call it irrational.

It's irrational in my opinion to continue to defend a guy letting in 3 extra goals a game despite the Oilers as a whole having some of the best scoring chance against metrics in the entire league all the while Skinner has the worst high danger save percentage in the league.

The guy in your avatar isn’t getting enough attention for his pairings awful play.