Value of: SJ Timo Meier

[PacificOceanPotion]

He produced much better last year than Eklund has in the AHL this year. But I forgot, his career is over because he hasn’t made the leap to the NHL yet.

And a minimum, he’s in the same tier as those players and it’s absurd to shit on him.

I never once shitted on Holtz. I actually put him in my trade package from NJ…Because I like what he potentially brings. Especially playing with Eklund. Look I don’t dislike the Devils or yalls fans. Like at all. As a matter of fact a few days ago I was saying how I hoped the 2 teams could get something figured out that benefits both teams because I’ve always felt like the Sharks and Devils were long lost cousins or somethin. all this messiness and animosity in this thread is truly ridiculous.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Honestly would help everyones sanity to lock it, but as soon as the next piece of news comes out it will light up like a firework again Im sure.

I know from the Devils fan perspective it's trying to give SJ fans a good package and then being rejected, which is fine, for Holtz but then saying it for certain reasons which have gotten rebuked only to fall on deaf ears again. Just glad it's over after Friday next week. hopefully if we are the team that land Meier that you guys get a good deal from us. I have no ill will against SJ as much as the bickering I've done with SJ fans. It's also because we've been looking for a winger for the past year and a half for Jack, we don't want to end up with a PIT situation with Crosby and then having his winger like 10 years later in Guentzel.

I never once shitted on Holtz. I actually put him in my trade package from NJ…Because I like what he potentially brings. Especially playing with Eklund.

Part of me thinks Grier doesn't value this at all.

 

[PacificOceanPotion]

Thread has became messy for some reason. It’s almost as if people are taking things too personal?….Also, just got off the phone with Grier, he sais the Blues offer is the one to beat..

I know from the Devils fan perspective it's trying to give SJ fans a good package and then being rejected, which is fine, for Holtz but then saying it for certain reasons which have gotten rebuked only to fall on deaf ears again. Just glad it's over after Friday next week. hopefully if we are the team that land Meier that you guys get a good deal from us. I have no ill will against SJ as much as the bickering I've done with SJ fans. It's also because we've been looking for a winger for the past year and a half for Jack, we don't want to end up with a PIT situation with Crosby and then having his winger like 10 years later in Guentzel.



Part of me thinks Grier doesn't value this at all.

yeah, i could see him thinking that not as a factor. It is to me though lol. I think they’d have amazing chemistry. Problem is I think Grier sees Eklund as a winger in the NHL and not a Center, so they may not even play on the same line for extended periods of time.

 

[themelkman]

I know from the Devils fan perspective it's trying to give SJ fans a good package and then being rejected, which is fine, for Holtz but then saying it for certain reasons which have gotten rebuked only to fall on deaf ears again. Just glad it's over after Friday next week. hopefully if we are the team that land Meier that you guys get a good deal from us. I have no ill will against SJ as much as the bickering I've done with SJ fans. It's also because we've been looking for a winger for the past year and a half for Jack, we don't want to end up with a PIT situation with Crosby and then having his winger like 10 years later in Guentzel.



Part of me thinks Grier doesn't value this at all.

Im pretty ready to be done debating it all, I think every original point has been made by now and its all the same stuff from both sides. It should be obvious both sides want to really get a steal on the other side which is fair, because of course you want your own team to do really well and not lose things you value.

The reality like most of these deals will probably be somewhere in the middle unless one of the gms makes a terrible move.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Im pretty ready to be done debating it all, I think every original point has been made by now and its all the same stuff from both sides. It should be obvious both sides want to really get a steal on the other side which is fair, because of course you want your own team to do really well and not lose things you value.

The reality like most of these deals will probably be somewhere in the middle unless one of the gms makes a terrible move.

Too many moving parts I agree, we won't know how this deal went down until a few months after or maybe never at all if Grier and Fitz don't say anything. At this point, it's just screaming into the void until next Friday.

 

[Guttersniped]

On paper the return for Calgary was substantial though. I don't think they did well because I'm a big fan of Tkachuk as well but some people were shocked when it happened.

Eichel is a good comparable. Meier is WAYY better than Eichel and I forgot he returned Tuch AND Krebs AND a 1st. I really don't see how devils fans are flipping at Mercer + a 1st.

Eichel is a 1C, the most valuable commodity in the NHL, so he isn’t a good comparable at all.

Vegas had gone to the playoffs 4 years in a row, including the WCF and Stanley Cup Finals. They had an owner who was pressing management for a SC win.

They had an obvious hole at 1C and their many attempts to fill it with more scoring from new, better wingers had failed. There wasn’t a team that wanted a 1C more and they never hit the market.

So again, not a good comparable.

 

[Nocashstyle]

Im pretty ready to be done debating it all, I think every original point has been made by now and its all the same stuff from both sides. It should be obvious both sides want to really get a steal on the other side which is fair, because of course you want your own team to do really well and not lose things you value.

The reality like most of these deals will probably be somewhere in the middle unless one of the gms makes a terrible move.

I won’t check this thread for like two hours and see there are 5 new pages. “Wow, I guess there must be an updated rumor from Friedman and Lebrun.” Nope, just 5 more pages of the same rehashed arguments and bickering between every fanbase involved in these rumors

 

[themelkman]

I won’t check this thread for like two hours and see there are 5 new pages. “Wow, I guess there must be an updated rumor from Friedman and Lebrun.” Nope, just 5 more pages of the same rehashed arguments and bickering between every fanbase involved in these rumors

Its one of the most heated trade threads I have seen, but I do tend to stay away from the Toronto ones lol

 

[Guttersniped]

But like they are letting people talk to him once they offer a fair trade.


It wasn’t you guys but go off. If you’re going to use quotation marks at least get the quote right. Otherwise that’s just basically slander.

It actually is slander to quote someone incorrectly. Like it is legally slander (or whatever the written version of slander is. I don’t remember the term). I didn’t tell anyone to take things less seriously either. You continue putting words in my mouth. It really feels like you’re projecting here. Is everything okay at home?

You mean libel, slander refers to something spoken.

 

[Guttersniped]

Because Grier is holding tight to his Jarvis or Mercer demands for now. Jarvis himself was told to prepare himself if Carolina gives in.

NJ and Carolina (+ whoever else) are likely holding tight to their futures package offers. Production from ELC talent is gold for contenders.

Jarvis wasn’t told that, he was told he could be part of the Tkachuk trade.

 

[Brodeur]

Sharks had numerous chances to draft him last year and chose not to.

I know Doug Wilson Jr was let go, but was there an overhaul of the scouting staff? That sort of thing isn't unusual. Kings hired Dean Lombardi right before the 2006 Draft and then he fired most of the scouts after. Ditto Steve Yzerman in Tampa in 2010 and Ray Shero with New Jersey in 2015.

LA passed on Sean Durzi 7 times at the 2017 Draft and twice at the 2018 Draft. A few months later, they preferred him over other prospects when they traded Jake Muzzin.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

 

[themelkman]

I know Doug Wilson Jr was let go, but was there an overhaul of the scouting staff? That sort of thing isn't unusual. Kings hired Dean Lombardi right before the 2006 Draft and then he fired most of the scouts after. Ditto Steve Yzerman in Tampa in 2010 and Ray Shero with New Jersey in 2015.

LA passed on Sean Durzi 7 times at the 2017 Draft and twice at the 2018 Draft. A few months later, they preferred him over other prospects when they traded Jake Muzzin.

The sharks have also hired a ton of college based scouting guys so that could help.

On the flipside, hes small and the sharks have a similar guy they picked over him whos been too injured to see what he is.

The only offer I see making sense from Vegas is Brisson + 2 firsts, but even then I think STL had a far stronger offer with the firsts they had, and have better prospects.

So maybe Cormier, Brisson and two firsts?

 

[Eggtimer]

Would Grier trade Meier to Vegas ? Honest question . I don’t know how much of a rivalry there is there. If it was like us and the Rangers or Philly …. No way in hell a player that good gets traded. Having to face a player that good for the next 8 years playing for a rival . A divisional rival?

Would Meier extend with Vegas ?
Only thing that scares me is that Vegas is stupid enough to totally screw themselves for years I’m order to try to win now and wouldn’t care if Meier would extend or not.
Is Thompson going to be ready for the playoffs? If not , do they roll with the goalies they have left?

The same with the Blues. Does Meier extend in St.Louis , a team that is going to miss the playoffs?
Thing that scares me about St.Louis … they will probably get more picks for Barbashev and possibly Parayko or Krug . But then they need to address their D ….

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

2 1sts, presumably the “hard offer” made by the Blues, sounds flashy on paper, but the picks are realistically mid-20s, if the Leafs and Rangers don’t get to the Conference Finals. Whereas fans and media get caught up in the optics of a 1st (see the Vancouver fanbase’s disappointment to the Horvat trade), the picks within that round have different values to clubs.

 

[themelkman]

2 1sts, presumably the “hard offer” made by the Blues, sounds flashy on paper, but the picks are realistically mid-20s, if the Leafs and Rangers don’t get to the Conference Finals. Whereas fans and media get caught up in the optics of a 1st (see the Vancouver fanbase’s disappointment to the Horvat trade), the picks within that round have different values to clubs.

Two late firsts isnt very flashy to me. I think I would probably take just Holtz+ NJ 2023 first over that if I had to.

 

[DevilsHughes86]

2 1sts, presumably the “hard offer” made by the Blues, sounds flashy on paper, but the picks are realistically mid-20s, if the Leafs and Rangers don’t get to the Conference Finals. Whereas fans and media get caught up in the optics of a 1st (see the Vancouver fanbase’s disappointment to the Horvat trade), the picks within that round have different values to clubs.

The thing is like mentioned many times, how long is Fitzy really willing to wait here..? I mean he has to set a deadline with Grier..

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

The thing is like mentioned many times, how long is Fitzy really willing to wait here..? I mean he has to set a deadline with Grier..

He doesn't, the Devils can stand pat at the deadline and be completely fine this year. But I'm also sure Grier will tell him an hour or two before that Meier is staying or going elsewhere if Fitz wants to add someone super late.

 

[Eggtimer]

Im pretty ready to be done debating it all, I think every original point has been made by now and its all the same stuff from both sides. It should be obvious both sides want to really get a steal on the other side which is fair, because of course you want your own team to do really well and not lose things you value.

The reality like most of these deals will probably be somewhere in the middle unless one of the gms makes a terrible move.

That’s the thing though . Offering 2023 1st , Holtz, one of (Shara / Mukhamadoulin, Zetterland , Casey)
is honestly what I feel is a very fair offer. I do not think that is trying to “steal” or rip off SJ at all.

I honestly 100% believe that the package above with maybe a 3rd rounder added in 2024 is what would be considered a slight overpayment when comparing it to other prior trades that are as close to comparable s as possible .
I also don’t see any Canes offer that does not include Jarvis of course or Nikishkin be able to beat that offer unless they pile on more quantity.

And other teams besides those 2? I cant see Meier extend with them , so that team won’t pay over rental price or a price higher than Devils or Canes .

Devils have a huge advantage IMO. Fitz is in this until the very end. Other teams , especially the Canes , have way more pressure to add someone due to expectations and multiple playoff runs that underachieved. I cannot see them wait as long as it may take for SJ to make a decision . They simply cannot afford to sit by while other options might get taken while they wait. Plus Canes dont operate like this. I cant see them pay major assets PLUS extend him for 8 years at 8+ mil. They didn’t want to pay their best player , home grown player in Aho who the Canes were almost forced to sign to match an offersheet.….
Its just not their MO .
So say the Canes announce tomorrow that they traded for a JT Miller or something like that …
That would be a massive blow for Grier. Do people honestly think the Canes sit and wait until the last second and risk not adding anyone !?! Their owner said the opposite . They will be adding players. I can’t see them being fine with possibly missig out on addig anyone because they waited too long on SJ.
Whereas , Fitz and the Devils are more than fine waiting . They made it known they want Meier and are ok with just chillin out as long as it takes.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

That’s the thing though . Offering 2023 1st , Holtz, one of (Shara / Mukhamadoulin, Zetterland , Casey)
is honestly what I feel is a very fair offer. I do not think that is trying to “steal” or rip off SJ at all.

I honestly 100% believe that the package above with maybe a 3rd rounder added in 2024 is what would be considered a slight overpayment when comparing it to other prior trades that are as close to comparable s as possible .
I also don’t see any Canes offer that does not include Jarvis of course or Nikishkin be able to beat that offer unless they pile on more quantity.

And other teams besides those 2? I cant see Meier extend with them , so that team won’t pay over rental price or a price higher than Devils or Canes .

Devils have a huge advantage IMO. Fitz is in this until the very end. Other teams , especially the Canes , have way more pressure due to expectations and multiple playoff runs that underachieved. I cannot see them wait as long as it may take for SJ to make a decision . They simply cannot afford to sit by while other options might get taken while they wait. Plus Canes dont operate like this. I cant see them pay major assets PLUS extend him for 8 years at 8+ mil. They didn’t want to pay their best player , home grown player in Aho who the Canes were almost forced to sign to match an offersheet.….
Its just not their MO .

It doesn't matter if Grier likes Carolina's package more and has told that to Carolina. Maybe he waits till Wednesday or Thursday and tells Carolina he'll send them Meier. If Meier isn't a Cane by Friday then they'll move on but they still have another week. I'm sure they have contingency plan just like we do. These are NHL franchises, not people playing GM modes on NHL video games lol.

 

[themelkman]

The thing is like mentioned many times, how long is Fitzy really willing to wait here..? I mean he has to set a deadline with Grier..

Kind of sounds like he did the opposite. He wants this until the last second

 

[Smitty426]

He doesn't, the Devils can stand pat at the deadline and be completely fine this year. But I'm also sure Grier will tell him an hour or two before that Meier is staying or going elsewhere if Fitz wants to add someone super late.

Yeah that's my concern. He's not making other moves because of TM. There are some other moves that should be done but the big stuff first to see what's left. Annoying!

 

[Eggtimer]

It doesn't matter if Grier likes Carolina's package more and has told that to Carolina. Maybe he waits till Wednesday or Thursday and tells Carolina he'll send them Meier. If Meier isn't a Cane by Friday then they'll move on but they still have another week. I'm sure they have contingency plan just like we do. These are NHL franchises, not people playing GM modes on NHL video games lol.

I dont get what you are saying. Canes owner wants to do something and wants to do it now ( based off of his interview plus want Dreger said ) . It’s very possible Canes go out and do something else instead of waiting on Meier . How the fack do you compare that to GM modes on video games ? It just happened.
Each day that passes is more chances that they risk losing out on another deal. Case in point - Blje jackets and Gavrikov . The jackets thought they had a deal with Boston. Waited too long and the deal got passed on and they got screwed. It the seller in that case that got burnt , but it shows that waiting too long can screw you over. Happens on he buyers and sellers end if you try to wait shit out.
Thats why the Devils are in a good spot. We are totally fine waiting it out.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

I dont get what you are saying. Canes owner wants to do something and wants to do it now ( based off of his interview plus want Dreger said ) . It’s very possible Canes go out and do something else instead of waiting on Meier . How the fack do you compare that to GM modes on video games ? It just happened.
Each day that passes is more chances that they risk losing out on another deal. Case in point - Blje jackets and Gavrikov . The jackets thought they had a deal with Boston. Waited too long and the deal got passed on and they got screwed. It the seller in that case that got burnt , but it shows that waiting too long can screw you over. Happens on he buyers and sellers end if you try to wait shit out.
Thats why the Devils are in a good spot. We are totally fine waiting it out.

Lol, Carolina has nothing to lose by waiting until Friday morning either. I doubt we see a flurry of trades this weekend. If trades start happening then yeah Carolina might panic. They can pivot to Vrana, Boeser, JVR or someone that no one sees very easily post Meier trade like NJ.

 

[Eggtimer]

It doesn't matter if Grier likes Carolina's package more and has told that to Carolina. Maybe he waits till Wednesday or Thursday and tells Carolina he'll send them Meier. If Meier isn't a Cane by Friday then they'll move on but they still have another week. I'm sure they have contingency plan just like we do. These are NHL franchises, not people playing GM modes on NHL video games lol.

What do you mean in this . Trade deadline is the 3rd. Why do you say if Meier ismt a Cane by Friday then they have a week? You honeslty think that the Canes can afford to wait it out until the day before the deadline then just pivot to other deals ? Those teams that are selling that have players the Canes want are going to happily wait until the end and “Maybe , maybe not “ be able to move the payers they want to ? And not shop them elsewhere in the time being?
Ya , no. Makes zero sense . And piss off with the “ people playing GM modes on NHL video games. Het off your high horse man .