Should have kept Schenn

[ponder]

I expect JVR to mature into a good top 6 winger. Not a star, but a good 2nd line winger, or an acceptable option on the 1st line. A guy with great tools (big, fast, strong, nice shot and hands), but mediocre hockey IQ.

I expect Schenn to mature into a solid 2nd pairing dman. Big, very dominant physically, below average but acceptable with the puck, reasonably solid defence, but a slow skater.

Overall I think they'll continue to have similar value, but I think we got the slightly better end of the deal.

 

[TheSilencer]

All JVR has to do is generate net traffic, and go for rebounds, regardless of what line he plays on. An aspect the Leafs have been sorely lacking of late.

JVR has never done any of that in Philly. I support the trade in the premise that we traded Schenn before the whole league found out how terrible he is, but i certainly hope JVR starts doing all those things you listed. We could definitely use the physical presence.

 

[Stephen]

I was pretty high on Schenn especially after his first season. It looked like he had the the right mixture to possibly become a great shut down defender. He made a lot of rookie mistakes in his first year but we pushed them aside cause of his potential.

For him to succeed in the NHL he's going to have to work on his skating and agility a lot. I think the defensive hockey IQ will come with time and experience but he could be 30 by the time he's a really good at shutting teams down.

Yeah I think he could definitely rebuild his game and evolve into a really useful defensive defenseman later in his career, but it was definitely a mistake to invest the resources the Leafs did on a player with that kind of career arc. I think he could be a lot better than a Hal Gill or Luke Richardson as big bodied defensemen who simplify their games and draw on veteran experience to be effective and who are useful in the playoffs, but if you waste 10 years of development on a first round pick like Hal Gill, you're not going to be very happy.

I also don't see Schenn as 'dominant' or 'mean' in any capacity. He is willing to use the body and use it often, but they're not really punishing, they don't finish off the play and seem more mechanical than anything resembling a Scott Stevens, for example.

 

[anderson3133]

JVR has never done any of that in Philly. I support the trade in the premise that we traded Schenn before the whole league found out how terrible he is, but i certainly hope JVR starts doing all those things you listed. We could definitely use the physical presence.

He seems to be in front an awful lot on this point shots

 

[colchar]

Maybe I don't know enough bout JVR. Or I just really like Schenn but I kinda regret trading him. I mean we didn't give him a chance to thrive in a defensive system Carlyle will most likely bring. Plus Schenn was what I thought could be that big mean staple defense man on the second pairing. I see Reilly and Gards being our offensive 1-2 punch but it would of been nice to have Phanuef and Schenn as the mean bruiser guys. The only prospect who I think has a chance of making the nhl and being that guy is Holder and he's more of a 3rd pairing guy. But hey who knows maybe having the main mean guy being Phanuef and then having a good 2way defenseman like Blacker will be good enough.

Do you guys think JVR could be a potential #1 winger? Or do you are him being more of a really good 2nd liner.

P. S. I know he went 2nd overall, I just have/had big expectations for Schenn.

So JVR hasn't played a game for the Leafs and you regret the trade? How about waiting to see how he actually does before deciding whether or not you like the trade?

 

[Jerkini]

I was a big Luke Schenn fan, but i'll strongly disagree. I'm just grateful we were able to get a player of JVR's potential straight up for him.

 

[zeke]

schenn is a 3rd pairing dman with some 2nd pairing upside.

JVR is a 2nd line forward with some 1st line upside.

 

[rdawg1234]

schenn is a 3rd pairing dman with some 2nd pairing upside.

JVR is a 2nd line forward with some 1st line upside.

Pretty much this.

Both have shown little glimpses of huge potential, I watched the JVR highlights from last year/year before(many should do this) and it's clear that he can dominate at times and is very,very skilled with the puck. If he explodes, you have yourself somewhat of a powerforward added to your top 6.(and there's reason to believe he will explode, as he played mostly 3rd line minutes in philly, here he'll be getting an extra 2-3 minutes a night).

Schenn on the other hand is a solid stay at home dman that hits alot, if he plays in a better system he could be a great 2nd pairing guy who hits and makes the right defensive play. But really he's not amazing at skating, he doesnt have a fantastic hockey IQ, but he can for the most part play solid defense.

you got a guy with huge 60-70 point potential if he reaches it, vs. a stay at home dman who has 2nd pairing potential and could be one of the better stay at home guys in the league.

the potential for JVR far outweighs Schenn's IMO. Good trade for both teams still.

 

[pooleboy]

Schenn for JVR was an across the board trade.

Just like Aulie for Ashton.

Aulie and Ashton will probably be fringe NHLers.

Schenn will probably never be more than a #4 defenseman...and JVR is realistically probably no better than a 2nd or 3rd liner.

yea schenn and jvr could both become better and imo jvr has more potential to become better, but schenn will always be a reliable and have a very good character game. i will miss schenn (schenn fan here)

however, schenn was slow in foot speed, and his hands weren't much quicker. his first pass was mediocure at best for a shutdown guy and we never gave him a chance imo. we screwed him from the beginning and messed him up most RW.

id love to see a rielly-schenn pairing however

 

[pooleboy]

He seems to be in front an awful lot on this point shots

he seems to be infront and has a nice shot good speed which is very encouraging.

id love to see what he can do with kessel there speed could be dominant.

 

[crump]

Fair trade. Schenn has a defensive defenseman upside, JVR has a scoring forward upside. Neither will be elite but both could turn into important parts of a winning team.

With Rielly and Gardiner coming in I don't miss him. Phaneuf, Holzer can supply physicality that a Schenn could.

 

[Censored23]

It was a good trade for both teams.

Each team dealt from strength for weakness. Both players were underperforming, but do have good potential, and both player are going to systems that COULD suit them better and help them achieve more.

All in all, a win-win for both if they perform as expected.

 

[hockeygeek]

Talking to a guy from Philly about the trade he said Reemer is only good when he wants to be...well Schenn was our worst defenceman last year and he was never good so i'll take that trade

and people blaming Wilson for destroying Schenn is laughable. The guy doesn't have the raw skills. It was a bad pick

 

[hockeygeek]

JVR has never done any of that in Philly. I support the trade in the premise that we traded Schenn before the whole league found out how terrible he is, but i certainly hope JVR starts doing all those things you listed. We could definitely use the physical presence.

70 shots in 11 playoff games in 2011. just sayin, he is unstoppable when he wants to be

 

[I Believe]

I loved Schenn, thought he would be the next captain of the Leafs. I can honestly say though that this trade made perfect sense for both teams. I think JVR will be great for us.

 

[Mansfield]

should have kept jonas hoglund

 

[hockeygeek]

should have kept sergei berezin

fixedbut seriously

 

[Pyrophorus]

if carlyle wanted schenn here he wouldn't have been traded.

Its this. I'm sure RC went to BB when the season was over, and provided him with some input on some players, or players we
need.

 

[Pyrophorus]

He seems to be in front an awful lot on this point shots

It was only 24 points.

 

[Pyrophorus]

I think BB was right, and Luke should have gone back to the Rockets.

We often talk on this board about, the Leafs greatest needs and how
hard they are to come by (#1C, #1G). It seems like to me a bottom-4
stay at home, bruiser should be easier to get. Someone like (no, not him) McQuaid.

 

[Willchel Marlynder]

Burke claims he wouldn't have made the Phaneuf trade without Aulie being included. Then dumped him quickly thereafter.. Leafs played they're most successful hockey down the stretch of the 2010-11 season with a strong 2nd half when Aulie was a regular.

Ron Wilson's pond hockey system that exposed defense first dmen like Aulie and Schenn, asking youngsters to play to their weakness (offense) at the expense of their strengths (defense) put them both in positions to fail rather than succeed.

Now both have been traded and with a new coach wanting to instill a defensive structure Aulie and Schenn the exact type of players that would help address the NHL 2nd worst goals against.

Expendable vets Komisarek and Liles should have been dealt and Aulie and Schenn kept. Then combined with Phaneuf, Gunnarsson, Gardiner and Mo Riells we could have had a nice defense for future to build upon.

Yeah this is exactly what I was thinking. But I think If Blacker and Finn Pan out then it's all good. I Totally forgot about Gunnar but still even having Schenn as 5-6 guy would be nice. I also agree that Komisarek (probably un-tradable) and Liles should of been traded before Schenn and Aulie. In fact the Liles re-sign baffles me a bit. but I guess he does give Gardner more time to develop.

A guy like Schenn is replaceable. If anything go get a Ryan O'byrne type next summer should be fairly cheap. Big, semi Mobile, tough, stay at home type of guy, will probably make 2Million vs Schenn's 3.6.

Yeah but Schenn is Younger and still has time to develop. Everyone is saying JVR can still improve. If he can why can't Schenn? Imo like many other it takes defensive D-men a little longer to develop into their full potential.

Who is Holder?

JVR has insane potential, can easily become a first line winger. Has the potential to be very, very dominant. For a guy his size, he can really skate.

Schenn is honestly awful. All he can do is finish his checks, usually on people who have already dished the puck away.

Sorry I meant Holzer but i was on my phone and that pesky Auto correct changed it. It's fixed now.

Also he definitely has potential. But Looking at his stats (which definitely doesn't tell the whole story) He doesn't look that great. Hopefully He breaks out this/next year.

 

[Willchel Marlynder]

Actually looking at the Video above I'm liking JVR put him with Kadri .

 

[kamosko]

Would've liked one of the two scenarios.

Schenn+Ashton or JVR+Aulie

D with high upside+decent bottom 6 forward vs. F with high(er) upside+decent bottom pairing D

I'm ecstatic we have JVR though, we don't have much forwards if any with the offensive upside and physical game he can bring to the team.

 

[reza87]

I'll sell you a Komi jersey for 5 bucks.

Dude please just give him five bucks to take the jersey.

I've always thought that the true value of Schenn would be on display during a playoff run. It's unfortunate that we never got to see that. I can see him being a huge difference maker in tournaments where intensity is higher but on the other hand, we also know what JVR is capable of during the playoffs.

I think this will end up being a good trade for both teams. Toronto and Philly both traded from positions in which they have a lot of depth but I'd give the Leafs a slight edge just because we need an impact forward so badly.

 

[BlueBaron]

That is half my take.

It pained me for years because I was not a Schenn fan, and never liked the pick, especially since it was a 7th. overall and 2nd. and 3rd. rounder to land him. Without Pierre hyping him as the Human Eraser, I doubt he'd have received half the support he did. Perhaps he'll flourish in Flyerland, but that would be fine with me.

Have to laugh, I hated the pick, I wanted Filatov , what do I know ?