Should have kept Schenn

[charliolemieux]

How much are you being paid as a NHL talent evaluator?

He's Craig Button's intern.

 

[Jozay]

But what if Holzer and Ashton don't pan out and Aulie does?

Then the Leafs lose the deal. Simple as that.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I think that it was a lot about coaching as well as the fact that he was trying to do to much....both on and off the ice and this created a lot of poor decisions. I think that he will be a lot better as a Flyer.

Ron Wilson is not a great development coach in my opinion, his attacking of Kadri in the media proves this.

He won't invoke thoughts of Hitchcock or Tippett with the run, pad stats, and scramble he employed in his 4 years as Leafs coach.

 

[The Blue Devil]

So you mean he was better before the poor coaching he received....



You failed to read what I posted.....we lack leadership and like it or not Schenn was a leader. We also lack players who are willing to put their body on the line to make a play and again Schenn was one of the few who did consistently. Schenn was going to get traded long before Carlyle got here. I agree that we traded a strength for a weakness.....you see it as we got a strength back....but I see it as adding to a weakness. We traded for a big player who fails to use his size, he might as well be 5'11" as he does not use his size. We are an easy to play against team and the trade added to that.

JVR may not be the type to throw his weight around, but when he has possesion he's hard to knock off the puck, there's that and he also brings a very good net pressence. We have some players already who are willing to get in front of the net, but none have the size of JVR. That alone is something that we've been lacking for a while.

 

[BigWilly]

I honestly would have traded Schenn and our 2nd (Matt Finn) for JVR and came away from it smiling ear to ear. JVR has unreal potential, and was really progressing until his injury ridden season last year. He possesses exactly what we need in our top 6 (size, strength, net presence) and is ready to break out with more minutes than what he recieved in Philly. It's a perfect time for him to step in after an extended lockout, where he can be 100 percent healthy to start the season. I'd bet 500 vCash that looking back on this trade in 5 years, we will all be laughing. (Similar to the Kaberle and Beauchemin deals)

 

[indigobuffalo]

I think JvR is probably something like a Bertuzzi. If he's on your top line, he can play to that level, but you ideally want the organizational depth to keep him on the second scoring line.

Right now I don't know if he will usurp Lupul. My guess is that they'll test him out on a few line combinations before the season starts, and through the preseason games, and wherever he find chemistry, that's where he'll end up.

Scoring lines typically have a Sniper-Playmaker-Powerforward format. Right now, our power forwards are Lupul, JvR and MacArthur/Kulemin/Frattin (who all sorta fill the sniper/power-forward hybrid role), depending on the night. Overall, that group isn't exactly a hallmark of the term powerful.

 

[hockeyfanz*]

Then the Leafs lose the deal. Simple as that.

Actually the Leafs lose the deal if Ashton sucks and Aulie turns out to be good. Holzer has nothing to do with anything. He wasn't part of the deal.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

Schenn was the worst defensively of any of our dmen last year.

Obviously, +/- do not tell the whole story as it is a flawed statistic, but out of the other six d-men who finished the season on the team last year, four had worse ratings.

And it's cute to see you posting these peremptory seemingly statements of facts, with no rationale to support them.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

That's the million dollar question, probably more than one factor, coaching and he also got slower. I remember there were those that claimed Ron Wilson was a great developmental coach. ?

Were they expressing an hope, or an opinion ?

 

[The Podium]

Obviously, +/- do not tell the whole story as it is a flawed statistic, but out of the other six d-men who finished the season on the team last year, four had worse ratings.

And it's cute to see you posting these peremptory seemingly statements of facts, with no rationale to support them.

He had the most GA/60, worst Corsi rel, and 2nd worst Corsi Qoc. Meaning more goals against for every 60 minutes he was on the ice than any other leafs D, more shots were directed at Toronto's net while he was on more than anyone on the team, and he played more tough minutes then only Franson.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

He had the most GA/60, worst Corsi rel, and 2nd worst Corsi Qoc. Meaning more goals against for every 60 minutes he was on the ice than any other leafs D, more shots were directed at Toronto's net while he was on more than anyone on the team, and he played more tough minutes then only Franson.

Thanks for doing Zeke's work for him.

Unless...

Hockey being a team game, these types of stats are inherently flawed.

I'll however agree that Schenn has seemingly regressed.

Fat cat syndrome, or bad coaching/development job?

Or simply not as good as most people thought?

That rookie 18-year-old season had so much promises...

 

[G51 K81*]

Obviously, +/- do not tell the whole story as it is a flawed statistic, but out of the other six d-men who finished the season on the team last year, four had worse ratings.

And it's cute to see you posting these peremptory seemingly statements of facts, with no rationale to support them.

Schenn was our worst defenseman last year. No need to provide evidence if you watched last season. He was our worst defenseman offensively and defensively.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

Schenn was our worst defenseman last year. No need to provide evidence if you watched last season. He was our worst defenseman offensively and defensively.

HGHB ("He's gone and he's a bum") syndrome.

 

[4evaBlue]

Scoring lines typically have a Sniper-Playmaker-Powerforward format. Right now, our power forwards are Lupul, JvR and MacArthur/Kulemin/Frattin (who all sorta fill the sniper/power-forward hybrid role), depending on the night. Overall, that group isn't exactly a hallmark of the term powerful.

Frattin isn't really a hybrid anything, as his power forward game is almost non-existent.

 

[G51 K81*]

HGHB ("He's gone and he's a bum") syndrome.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1199841&highlight=

Lawyered.

 

[Stephen]

That rookie 18-year-old season had so much promises...

I think that 18 year old season is getting a little bit overrated here, as he's gotten a ton of props for just being competent playing his very simple game. His third season was actually somewhat encouraging, as it looked like he was mixing in some good stretch passes and ability to lug the puck up the ice into his all around repertoire, but it does look like the more he tried to complicate things with playing with some skill, the more difficult it became to execute on a regular basis. Anyway, seems like a nice guy, but I'm not a fan at all.

 

[Stephen]

I think JvR is probably something like a Bertuzzi. If he's on your top line, he can play to that level, but you ideally want the organizational depth to keep him on the second scoring line.

Right now I don't know if he will usurp Lupul. My guess is that they'll test him out on a few line combinations before the season starts, and through the preseason games, and wherever he find chemistry, that's where he'll end up.

Scoring lines typically have a Sniper-Playmaker-Powerforward format. Right now, our power forwards are Lupul, JvR and MacArthur/Kulemin/Frattin (who all sorta fill the sniper/power-forward hybrid role), depending on the night. Overall, that group isn't exactly a hallmark of the term powerful.

Which Bertuzzi? If we're talking 2003 Bertuzzi, we've hit a home run with JVR...

 

[Kyle Doobas*]

I'll however agree that Schenn has seemingly regressed.

Fat cat syndrome, or bad coaching/development job?

Fat ass syndrome imho