Speculation: Sharks Roster Discussion Part VI

[hohosaregood]

Hertl+ for Duchene. 2nd for Neal.

Seems reasonable but also kind of lowball.

 

[Lebanezer]

Hertl+ for Duchene. 2nd for Neal.

Gotta target Galchenyuk and Duchene. I don't want to lose Hertl, but those 2 are in the age range we should be targeting.

 

[CrypTic]

I don't think Duchene has the upside that we should target. I'd love to have him but I see him as approximately equivalent to Couture. He's great but not who you want as your 1C.

 

[Dicdonya]

Couture had Ward, Donskoi, Labanc, Boedker, Karlsson etc. as his linemates during last season. Sometimes he played with Patty yeah but Patty also playd a lot of time on the captain line.

Logan can produce 60ish points with anyone. Also he scored 30-points during our run to the finals last year. Hertl had about as good linemates than Couture during 2016-2017 season and failed to produce even 0.5PPG. Their ice time were almost equal. Actually Hertl had more time on ice at even strength than Couture.

Couture is way superior player to Hertl and LC should play on our second line center unless we can get Duchene. Also he is better defensively than Hertl. He doesn't miss his assignments as much as Hertl and Couture played also team Canada's top pk-unit during World Cup and I am sure Babcock doesn't use players who wouldn't be great defensively on that role. Hertl had team's worst -8 during regular season and I know +/- doesn't tell everything it still is something to think.

I like Hertl and he is very good player but I don't like the idea of him being our 2nd line center.

I don't think anyone is claiming Cooch can't score 60ish points with anyone. I also personally agree that scoring wise Cooch is far superior to Hertl.

However Cooch is horrible on faceoffs, and mediocre at puck possession, two key roles of a center. We currently have a player in Hertl who happens to excel at both of these areas, and has proven that when he has good offensive players on his line, he can score at a first line rate.

So, why not see if we can mix these two players together, and have them BOTH benefit from each other's strengths. No one is advocating to remove Cooch from the top six, simply wondering if he might be able to continue being a 60ish point player on the wing, while allowing Hertl better linemates a scoring potential.

I called it last offseason, Hertl on the third line took a player on 60-70pt pace the year before(when on the top line), and turned him into a 30-40pt player. He didn't "spread the talent around", he simply just got dragged down to third liner level offense. I still advocate for him to be back with the joes full time as my first choice, trying him with Cooch on the wing is merely a backup plan in my mind.

Pavs moved beautifully to the wing, maybe Cooch can too? If not then simply change the lines up, I'm not sure why some are so against the very idea of trying it out.

 

[Kcoyote3]

Guys, Dynamo is folding but look who is now a UFA:

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=71292

 

[Friday]

Guys, Dynamo is folding but look who is now a UFA:

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=71292

Haha! What he's still goin!?

 

[pappaf2]

Guys, Dynamo is folding but look who is now a UFA:

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=71292

Man he was terrible

 

[bigwillie]

Guys, Dynamo is folding but look who is now a UFA:

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=71292

Kaspar the Useless Ghost

 

[DarrylshutzSydor]

I don't think anyone is claiming Cooch can't score 60ish points with anyone. I also personally agree that scoring wise Cooch is far superior to Hertl.

However Cooch is horrible on faceoffs, and mediocre at puck possession, two key roles of a center. We currently have a player in Hertl who happens to excel at both of these areas, and has proven that when he has good offensive players on his line, he can score at a first line rate.

So, why not see if we can mix these two players together, and have them BOTH benefit from each other's strengths. No one is advocating to remove Cooch from the top six, simply wondering if he might be able to continue being a 60ish point player on the wing, while allowing Hertl better linemates a scoring potential.

I called it last offseason, Hertl on the third line took a player on 60-70pt pace the year before(when on the top line), and turned him into a 30-40pt player. He didn't "spread the talent around", he simply just got dragged down to third liner level offense. I still advocate for him to be back with the joes full time as my first choice, trying him with Cooch on the wing is merely a backup plan in my mind.

Pavs moved beautifully to the wing, maybe Cooch can too? If not then simply change the lines up, I'm not sure why some are so against the very idea of trying it out.

I would put Hertl on the wing.

 

[Sysreq]

Hertl needs to learn how to carry a line. He is good enough.

I don't think we are ever going to have a true 1c in the near future. Given our 15 million dollar investment so far on the blue-line, I suspect we are going to follow Nashville's path. Both Burns and Vlasic are #1s in their own right - we just need to find then young, high talent partners on ELCs.

 

[BaileyMacTavish]

I still think we should offer sheet Drai, especially after that McDavid contract. Screws the Oilers if they match

 

[DrFeelgood]

I still think we should offer sheet Drai, especially after that McDavid contract. Screws the Oilers if they match

And if they don't match it destroys our cap and costs us 3+ first round picks, not worth it.

 

[CrypTic]

And if they don't match it destroys our cap and costs us 3+ first round picks, not worth it.

Obviously, it depends on the offer but IMO it's worth it on the picks side. Unless the Sharks plan on tanking, I don't see us having a shot at a top 1C without offersheeting someone. If they think they have a better chance at Eichel or Matthews, then they should pass on Drai. If they think they have a good shot at getting Tavares, they should pass on Drai. If the cap isn't going to work out, they should pass on Drai. (But then you really have to wonder why they signed Jones so quickly and gave Jumbo 8M.)

Drai is not a sure top 1C. He's a gamble, unlike Tavares. That's why I said that if they think they have a good shot at Tavares, they should pass on Drai. But IMO he's a better gamble than anyone the Sharks have now or, except for those listed, they have a shot at.

Late first rounders are big gambles and the Sharks' record there isn't good.

 

[KirbyDots]

Could DW be interested in one of the players going to arbitration? Granlund, Palat, and Tatar are very interesting names if any team walks away, which is extremely unlikely.

We might be in holding pattern until the nhl landscape becomes more clear. As painful as waiting is we should remember that DW didn't make the Heatley trade until Sept 12. These things can take time.

 

[Kcoyote3]

Honestly I think all this wishing is just that. We aren't making big moves until jumbo is gone. The next year will be another youth movement frenzy like 2014. Then reevaluate at the end of the year. But I really want us to miss the playoffs next year so we have a shot at Dahlin.

 

[one2gamble]

If the sharks had a young puck moving d man you could probably pry Galchenyuk away ...

They really do need to do something though, they dont have enough offense on this team, they didnt last year either and they just shed 20 goals.

 

[Used As A Shield]

They could get more offense with a less risk averse system, I am not sure how much it could help in the long run though.

 

[CrypTic]

Honestly I think all this wishing is just that. We aren't making big moves until jumbo is gone. The next year will be another youth movement frenzy like 2014. Then reevaluate at the end of the year. But I really want us to miss the playoffs next year so we have a shot at Dahlin.

I don't think that DW will offersheet Drai. We were discussing what he should do, not predicting what he will do. But who knows. There was a rumor that he was in on Drai.

I can't see us having much of a shot at Dahlin. We'd need to do a better job of tanking than we did for McDavid/Eichel and, with our roster, I don't see us doing that badly. We may miss but if we do, we'll probably be drafting even lower than we did in 2015. If DW wanted us to tank, he should have held out on signing Vlasic and Jones, hoping that contract negotiations would distract them during the season.

 

[CJL182]

Kaspar the Useless Ghost

I remember his new sticks at the equipment sale one year had an insane curve that looked illegal. Not sure if it was a bad batch or whatever, but I wish I picked one up.

 

[Lebanezer]

Could DW be interested in one of the players going to arbitration? Granlund, Palat, and Tatar are very interesting names if any team walks away, which is extremely unlikely.

We might be in holding pattern until the nhl landscape becomes more clear. As painful as waiting is we should remember that DW didn't make the Heatley trade until Sept 12. These things can take time.

I'm sure Doug is kicking tires on all those guys. I'd take Tatar, Palat or Niederreiter in a heartbeat.

 

[KirbyDots]

Greg Wyshynski retweeted this.

 

[BaileyMacTavish]

Greg Wyshynski retweeted this.

Well there goes that. :c

So I guess DW is banking on the young guns picking it up this following season.

 

[pappaf2]

Greg Wyshynski retweeted this.

Sign and trade, come on DW dooooo iiiit!

 

[hockeyball]

I'm sure Doug is kicking tires on all those guys. I'd take Tatar, Palat or Niederreiter in a heartbeat.

I mean, sure... but really, even if we got one of them, none of those guys solve any real problems. We need a new #1c, none of those guys are anywhere close. They don't even solve the speed/youth issue, they help some, but we would still have a ways to go.

Not saying some progress is no progress, but in a sense it is. If we continue to linger in 'good, but not great' what's the point? You either need a generational talent (Crosby) or you need a young star player on an ELC to give you a salary advantage. We don't have either now (or any in the system). We need those really high talent guys on ELC's, and we need them at the right time (depth). It's a balancing act and I think Wilson has been operating on the idea that he keeps the team well stocked and hopes something falls into his lap to push it over the top. He figures, if he can stay there long enough, eventually it will happen.

It's not going to happen, either he doesn't have the wherewithall or it's just a bad strategy all-together. If you can't put together a cup team in 12 years of being a really good team, something isn't working. I think the Sharks need to part ways with Wilson, with Burke, with Sommer, and start fresh with a new group and build through the draft. There is nothing worse than stagnation in a sport, fan's will evaporate and never come back.

 

[KirbyDots]