Value of: Sharks players
- Thread starter Gecklund
- Start date
Juxtaposer
Outro: Divina Comedia
Let’s all remember that Roman Polak got a 2nd as a deadline acquisition and
pending UFA. Braun can get a late 1st.
pending UFA. Braun can get a late 1st.
TomasHertlsRooster
Don’t say eye test when you mean points
Honestly, if you were to compare them, value wise, I would say Braun is easily worth a top-10 pick as a deadline acquisition. But I don't think any GM is paying that. He can probably get a late 1st but GMs tend to value a player like Polak a lot more than they value a player like Braun if they're equally effective. Braun is a lot more effective, but I still don't think he would be much more valued around the league.
As Sharks fans, we know all about fleecing for defensemen. Polak returned two 2nd round picks. Brad Stuart returned two 2nd round picks. Douglas Murray returned two 2nd round picks. These guys were all pretty bad defensemen but they were gritty, hard hitting defensemen. I don't know that Braun will garner that same level of interest.
Juxtaposer
Outro: Divina Comedia
Let’s take a step back.
1) Braun is in no way worth a top-10 pick. Somewhere between 15-20 sounds right to me.
2) Only one of those trades you listed is accurate: Murray. Stuart went for a 2nd and a 6th and Polak came along with Spaling, as well as the Reiner trade.
But yeah, top-4 RHD like Braun are worth more than a 2nd, a B prospect, and cap dump.
TomasHertlsRooster
Don’t say eye test when you mean points
Damn, I guess you're right about Brad Stuart. But, does Spaling really count as an asset with value? He couldn't get an NHL contract the following year so he left to Europe.
And I don't think Braun is worth a top-10 pick, but I think that if guys like Stuart, Murray, and Polak are worth what they returned, then Braun is worth a top-10 pick.
And I don't think Braun is worth a top-10 pick, but I think that if guys like Stuart, Murray, and Polak are worth what they returned, then Braun is worth a top-10 pick.
Juxtaposer
Outro: Divina Comedia
Except guys like Stuart, Murray, and Polak clearly weren’t worth what they returned.
Liver King
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What would you want from Ottawa for Pavelski? we have a lot of pieces I just dont know what you would be looking for in return
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TomasHertlsRooster
Don’t say eye test when you mean points
That's my point...big, gritty, physical defensemen like those 3 are constantly being traded for overpayments in a way that reliable top-4 defensemen with solid underlying numbers like Braun are not.
- Sep 27, 2017
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If a player like Braun is available, he will get a solid return.
If SJ made Braun available, SJ will get a great return.
Myself, I'm not really interested in Smith or Paul although I understand that Smith may be in there for salary purposes. Honestly, I'd rather retain salary to increase value on Pavelski than take on a contract even though Smith is a solid player and is in no way a contract dump.
- Jul 25, 2012
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So I'm in the party of Anaheim still needing to find a center to really have a shot this season(rakell has looked alright at center but I still prefer him on the wing..... id prefer bozak/duechene but wouldn't mind thornton.
Thornton to the ducks at the deadline for?
Rakell Getzlaf Eaves
Cogs Kesler Silf
Ritchie Thornton Perry
Itll take pressure off joe cause he wont have to be the guy in Anaheim.... and itll also take some pressure off kesler and getzlaf, while giving us an opportunity to run 3 lines pretty comfortably. Kase is another player I could see playing really well with thornton.
Thornton to the ducks at the deadline for?
Rakell Getzlaf Eaves
Cogs Kesler Silf
Ritchie Thornton Perry
Itll take pressure off joe cause he wont have to be the guy in Anaheim.... and itll also take some pressure off kesler and getzlaf, while giving us an opportunity to run 3 lines pretty comfortably. Kase is another player I could see playing really well with thornton.
I'm not opposed to trading Thornton to the Ducks but I'd have to look at the deal available and what options Thornton would give the team in terms of making a trade, if any. That's why I feel like the value for Thornton can be all across the spectrum due to his full NMC.
- Jul 25, 2012
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Didn't even think about his NMC, but I think hed prob be okay with LA or ANA if just for the playoff run(assuming both teams are playoff teams at that point)
I imagine a 1st + prospect, not sure sharks needs but comtois, kase, terry, morand etc would prob be on the radar.... wouldn't be suprirsed if there was some sort of 2nd pick based on how far we get.... maybe 4th for playoff 3rd for wcf and 2nd for finals. Doubt it would ever happen.... but id imagine the ducks and kings would inquire on him if he was available, and I think he would waive for either team tbh.
In Thornton's case, it's going to be a complete unknown until it happens, if it does. One could see him waiting for the season to play out and see where teams are and Thornton makes a decision from there. If LA and Anaheim are in it, it wouldn't surprise me if he had them on his list but it's also possible he accepts a deal with a team like Toronto or Chicago or Pittsburgh or any number of teams that could have a great team by the trade deadline. He could theoretically limit his choice of teams just to one and pretty much force the Sharks to take less to accommodate his request. That's why I say it could be anywhere on the spectrum in terms of his value. He can open it up to a number of teams or just to one and his value will change based off of that. We'll see but I think it's way up in the air.
Gecklund
Registered User
Personally, if we are trading players to the Kings or Ducks, I would expect a lot in return.
Crosscrease14
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- Dec 16, 2014
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Leafs 1st and Marincin for Braun + 7th
Marincin for cap purposes and 7th to even out the number of picks for T.O
Call it in?
Marincin for cap purposes and 7th to even out the number of picks for T.O
Call it in?
In the short term, Paul Martin or Brenden Dillon would be available. One or the other because they need to move one to have Joakim Ryan up moving forward.
I don't understand why some people are throwing Marincin in for cap purposes. He's only on the Leafs cap book for 225k right now and Braun is at 3.8 mil. Unless the cap figures are off for whatever reason, the Leafs don't need to move salary to bring in Justin Braun at 3.8 mil with close to 4.8 in LTIR cap space to use. Also, I don't get the logic behind evening out the number of picks to Toronto in your proposal. If cap is needed for Toronto then that can be worked on because the Sharks can retain salary or take on a contract depending on the particulars. I just don't understand why Marincin would be in there if that was truly the motivation.
Crosscrease14
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Beyond the small amount of cap savings moving Marincin in the deal helps prevent a logjam of D lower down. If T.O is acquiring a d they have to move one out at this point. Marincin is simply the best candidate. Evens out the number of contracts too. It's not imperative, and the base of the deal is Braun for leafs 1st, but adding Marincin and a late round pick helps with housekeeping. That's all. I'd still be more comfortable with the 2nd + prospect + Marincin deals above but if it takes a first then I'd want a late round pick back. Minor concessions.
If SJ was willing to retain on Braun I'd add a little more for sure but I can't see them doing it with this year +2 on his contract.
Also, there's something about the leafs dipping into LTIR overage and rookie bonuses that complicates the cap so I think they'd much rather avoid using it if possible. Wish I knew exactly how that works but I'm just not that knowledgeable about the cap.
Leafs might have to throw in Lupul (possibly with retention) who expires at the end of this year but not sure if that kills the deal on SJ's end.
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But all that does is move your logjam to San Jose. They're going to be looking to move Paul Martin or Brenden Dillon to make room for Joakim Ryan. The Leafs are at 48 contracts with 7 blue liners on the roster. If they add Justin Braun, it would make more sense to send down Rosen or Borgman. I'm sure that most Leafs fans would be more comfortable with the 2nd, prospect, and Marincin deal but at that point what's the motivation for the Sharks to move Braun? Those are deals the Sharks can get out of Braun at any point they choose to make a move with him. If they're rebuilding, they don't need to do that now. Their focus will be on moving impending free agents and those expiring after next season.
I'm sure the Sharks would be willing to retain on Braun even with two more years to go. They retained on Jason Demers with an extra year and Braun's retained salary is at most going to be 1.9 mil and they'd be a team going into a rebuild. If the value is there, I'm sure they'd do it.
As for the overage when it comes to bonuses, I can see that being an issue as bonus overages automatically count towards next season's cap up to 10%, I believe.
When it comes to Lupul, I don't see what good it does for the Sharks to trade for Lupul and if the Leafs want to add someone like Braun, they'll need to keep Lupul so that they still have the LTIR space available to make that happen. The Leafs don't gain any cap space by trading Lupul at this point.
Crosscrease14
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All good points. Maybe something like Leafs 1st, SJ 3rd and a prospect (Bracco, Soshnikov, Rychel, Timashov) for Braun (50% retained) + late pick at the deadline if SJ is out of the race and the leafs look poised to contend? I don't mind it but I'm sure there are some leaf fans who would object as some are still squeamish to move futures which I understand.
Yeah, I understand hesitancy moving picks to make a run for it. I'd probably do 1st, 3rd, and Bracco for Braun@50% and a 7th. However, I would like to add a condition where that 3rd becomes the Sharks' 2nd if the Leafs make the Finals if Braun plays in like half the playoff games. I'd also keep Toronto in mind during the off-season with the Sharks in case the Leafs need to make a salary move because I fully expect that Patrick Marleau may end up being a Shark for the 3rd year at a discount so I'd be available for helping Toronto next year a bit in sort of a hint that that's going to occur.
