Sharksrule04
Registered User
Anything over 5M is an over-payment for Jones in my mind. With the exception of 1-2 goalies, I just don't think a goalie is worth more than 5M, especially since Jones really didn't raise his stock over the last season.
Rumor: Sharks-Jones negotiations going well
- Thread starter LadyStanley
- Start date
rangerssharks414
Registered User
Please no, although that's just speculation on your part and not what you want, I'm guessing.
I want about five years at about $4.5M ish, but I doubt that happens. Ben Bishop only got six years for under $30M, and he's a much better goalie than Jones.
AgentCooper
Registered User
Almost missed the sarcasm. Was getting ready to unload haha.
You. Don't. Know. This. The fact that every GM has "ok" players on multi-year deals, means that THAT IS THE MARKET. That's not handing out job security, that's competing on the open market. What is your ideal team exactly? A couple of superstars on long-term deals and then 14 one-year contracts for all those "replaceable" players?
Your goalie options are terrible; you're supporting my argument, not challenging it. I'm not asking for "buy-lows" or "intriguing options" either. If we're letting Jones walk, I expect his replacement to be at least as good. Those are not. We'll see what Jones' numbers are, but for now he's clearly earned a raise and an extension.
Timo Time
73-9
Sideshow Raheem
Registered User
- Dec 22, 2015
- 3,063
- 7
Nice straw man. Signing top nine forward or top four defensemen to long-term deals is fine. Signing a completely replaceable fourth line part like Karlsson to one makes zero sense. That's not "the market." The Sharks would have no trouble walking away from Karlsson and replacing him with one of a half dozen Barracuda forwards.
Career SV%s:
Martin Jones - .916
Calvin Pickard - .914
Jonathan Bernier - .915
Steve Mason - .911
Brian Elliott - .913
Ryan Miller .915
The only one significantly lower than Jones is Mason's and that's solely due to his terrible early years in Columbus - he had a .918 SV% over his entire Flyers career. If the choice is between Martin Jones at $6milx5years versus one of these guys for like $2.5mil on a 1-2 year deal you go with the latter and run. That's money that can be better spent on actual upgrades up front or on the blueline rather than on a largely indistinguishable goalie.
KK offered this:
"Talks progressing between #SJSharks, Vlasic/Jones:" http://www.csnbayarea.com/sharks/talks-progressing-between-sharks-vlasic-and-jones …
Juxtaposer
Outro: Divina Comedia
Yeah, that would be not what I want. I'd go 4 years with an AVV of $5-5.5M and be passably not angry.
pappaf2
Registered User
Snippet from said article:
"
Vlasic’s agent, Bob Sauve, told NBC Sports California on Thursday that he has spoken to Wilson and talks are “going well†so far. He confirmed that both the Sharks and Vlasic would like a long-term extension, and that Vlasic enjoys playing in San Jose.
The two sides will likely chat again soon, according to Sauve, and he’s hopeful that a deal will be in place by July 1"
I think he gets term and trade protection rather than cap hit. The goalie market is full of guys like Bishop, and now MAF, who got replaced by someone younger and cheaper. If I were Jones, I would rather know that he has a home than a few extra dollars and a ticking clock. There's only room for 31 starters in the league.
AgentCooper
Registered User
Yes. It is the market. High end 4th liners like Karlsson get 2 and 3 year deals. Often. As for the lineup, exaggeration on my part? Sure, but can you blame me? Jones was probably 2 wins away from the Conn Smythe this time last year. If he's "replaceable", I gotta assume you think Joe-top 9er is too.
Anyway, I'm not gonna argue about stats with you. If you really think that career SV% is a good way to evaluate all of those guys today in 2017, then that's fine. If you really think Steve Mason or Jonathan Bernier are "indistinguishable" from Martin Jones, then that's fine. If you're fine starting next with question marks in the crease to save money that you can maybe use to upgrade somewhere else, even though there are other ways to do that, then that's fine. I will let you carry on, my friend.
Juxtaposer
Outro: Divina Comedia
Just because players like Karlsson commonly get 2-3 year deals doesn't mean they should. Any team would be better served icing a 4th line of players on one year $750,000 deals. Would you rather have a fourth line of Karlsson-Tierney-Ward for $7M or or Sorensen-Carpenter-Goodrow for $2M? I know which one I would.
The one that gives you 5M extra to spend on a top-6 forward. That is honestly why I have a problem with Dillon on the 3rd pairing...he's fine as a #6D. However, he's paid more than that, so I'd rather have Heed/Ryan in there for 2.5M less.
AgentCooper
Registered User
Oh, of course. I agree completely. And this is the problem with HF. If you say that something isn't that big a deal, or point out that something happens a lot, people automatically assume that you support it.
:we need a *sigh* emoticon:
OrrNumber4
Registered User
- Jul 25, 2002
- 15,818
- 5,072
Then you'll turn around and whinge about our poor depth come the playoffs. I mean, we had a fourth line with Goodrow on it.
How many times have the Sharks been burned icing promising youngsters bin depth roles only to see those youngsters fall flat?
Sharksfan83
Registered User
- Jul 27, 2010
- 3,495
- 812
Im good with this, I know he wasn't great last year but he had stretches of keeping us in games again. It was only his second full season as starter and I believe we will see a better Jones next season. He has all the mental tools to be a great goalie.
Won't be a big deal if they add a good top-6 forward with the extra cap space...that would bump someone down the lineup.
Juxtaposer
Outro: Divina Comedia
There's a spectrum of possible reactions to a move, ranging from "horrible" to "brilliant" with "isn't a big deal" somewhere in between. I'm with you, I don't think it's the end of the world.
However, there is 'smart' and 'not smart'. Signing Karlsson to a 3 year deal at the AVV he got is not smart. I'm not upset about it, but it's obviously a really not smart move.
Goodrow was just a ****ing example. Sub-$1M quality fourth liners are out there every single year.
Agreed, and I'd also add that these signings seem to be relatively insignificant until the team realizes it is short 1M here or 1M there for some player they want to add. Those things add up imo...however, it's not like the Karlsson contract is anywhere near Burish territory
Juxtaposer
Outro: Divina Comedia
Agreed, and I'd also add that these signings seem to be relatively insignificant until the team realizes it is short 1M here or 1M there for some player they want to add. Those things add up imo...however, it's not like the Karlsson contract is anywhere near Burish territory
And again, we agree for the most part. It's stuff like, overpaying Vlasic by $1M isn't that big a deal if we don't have Karlsson making $2M per and Boedker making $4M per for the next three years.
- May 1, 2011
- 130,165
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I would like to not give him much more than $5 million per year, but I also think that his poor year might have been more due to the coaching staff's terrible over-utilization of him and reluctance to start their .930 backup more often. It was different when Stalock was a liability the year before and you had to either play Jones or completely punt games. There was no excuse for that this past season, not with the way Dell was playing. God forbid if Dell regresses next year and isn't nearly as good as what we saw this past year, does that mean Jones will play just as much, if not more next year than he did this past year? I sure hope not.
I don't see Jones as an elite goalie, but I see him as a good one. Paying him $6 million would be brutal though. I think even paying him $5.5 million would be pretty overpayment right now. There are some mediocre goalies like Mike Smith getting paid that much, so it's not like he'd have the worst goalie contract in the league if he did get that. I was hoping around $5 million though. I wonder if he'd sign for just under $5 million if it were for 6 or 7 years?
If the notion that players get $1MM/10 points is correct, Karlsson is where he should be @ $2MM as a he is a 10/10 and ~.3 ppg player over his NHL career. You aren't going to be able to put the typical 4th liner who will take $750M and put him on the 1st line for stretches. Karlsson has proven he isn't entirely out of place there and hence is worth more than replacement level players.
weastern bias
worst team in the league
weastern bias
worst team in the league
Yep, there is usually a reason why those cheap depth players are so affordable, and it's not because they're good
Unless you're Chicago or Pittsburgh, and I'm pretty sure they've been dabbling in forbidden magic; Doug is afraid of magic
Good to see Karlsson will be next season's whipping boy, though, until we give Haley a 3 year contract, that is
