Speculation: Shanny, Treliving, and Keefe; what is your end game?

[PromisedLand]

I can't for the life of me understand what is going on with this team.

I see a few things that mostly lead to a negative review from a fan standpoint.

The lines don't seem cohesive. The defense does not appear to be cohesive. The 4th line seems to be another season long audition (I like some individual parts).

Toronto's preseason ended on October 7th, but to me it feels like it ended on Dec. 25th.

What is TOR's system? Puck possession, trap, defense first, dump and chase, stretch passes? Every time I watch them they play differently. Is this a "cannot be properly scouted" tactic?

Any time we've seen improvements this season its been from waiving or putting someone on the IRL.

Are there just too many players too old in too important positions?

What is the honest truth about this team and where it's going?

IMHO Leafs system has become very predictable. The defense is hardly involved in the offensive zone and forwards is hardly involved in the defensive zone.

opposition team knows the players that don't backcheck or always pass and never shoot so there is no unpredictability. its like the Leafs PP. How many times do you think there is a point shot coming? I mean really!

I will start calling out Tre after next off-season where he would have had 1 full year as a GM if things aren't working. For now I will fully embrace blaming Keefe and ShanaCON! That said, players should be held a bit accountable too. they rely too much on so called "skilled" and mostly get outworked.

How many times have Leafs had sustained offensive zone time cycling the puck? I could count on my hand really.

Brodie, Gio, are off the cap next season so we will see how those spots get filled in the offseason. I doubt there are many suitors for Brodie/Gio at present. May be at TDL?

Leafs have needed a re-tool for a while IMO given their playoff performances. this season and next season (JT's last year) are good years/season to look to re-tool a bit from top heavy to balanced roster.

 

[disgruntleddave]

I honestly expect us to continue being a borderline playoff team for the next 5 or so years, losing early and trying the same thing year after year.

In a bunch of years all these guys will be gone and fired and we'll do another re tool or bottom out ish. So maybe in 10 years we'll see different major things.

It's better just to accept it.

 

[Jojalu]

Hopefully Bert and Domi can provide some playoff mojo, but this doesn't lookike a good year to move futures out for help, unless it is someone with some term left.

I still believe Tanev is the right partner for Reilly but why not wait til the offseason to after him

 

[tuckerintensity]

That's not Treliving's doing.

He spent 14 million in cap space this year on the stellar defensive games of Tyler Bertuzzi, Max Domi, John Klingberg, and Ryan Reaves... some of this is his doing.

 

[Mugzy97]

I can't for the life of me understand what is going on with this team.

I see a few things that mostly lead to a negative review from a fan standpoint.

The lines don't seem cohesive. The defense does not appear to be cohesive. The 4th line seems to be another season long audition (I like some individual parts).

Toronto's preseason ended on October 7th, but to me it feels like it ended on Dec. 25th.

What is TOR's system? Puck possession, trap, defense first, dump and chase, stretch passes? Every time I watch them they play differently. Is this a "cannot be properly scouted" tactic?

Any time we've seen improvements this season its been from waiving or putting someone on the IRL.

Are there just too many players too old in too important positions?

What is the honest truth about this team and where it's going?

All true, all coaching issues. We've got a rookie coach trying to win a cup with a contending team.

 

[TonsofPuppies]

I created a thread in October of 2022 titled "When did you know it was over for this group?" and here is what I had to say then - my opinion remains unchanged:

For me, it was the infamous "The Leafs lost to a 42-year old zamboni driver, who works for them" game against CAR in 2020. I personally see that game as not only the most humiliating loss in Leafs history, NHL history, hockey history, but all of sports history (if anyone has one that's worse, please share it for the sake of my morbid curiosity). It was not only the loss of that game, but the fact that Sheldon Keefe cancelled practice the following day, presumably so that the players wouldn't have to face scrutiny from the media. Lastly, Kyle Dubas claiming that the opposing team losing both of their starting goaltenders and so you get to shoot for half the game on a human shooter-tutor is a "no win" situation.

People like to meme and joke about this game and it's obvious why, however, if you look at it from a serious perspective, that 24 hour span truly shows how incompetent this organization is, top to bottom, from its soy-infused GM, to its cowardly coach, to its soft, gutless players. And sitting at the top of shit mountain is Shanahan, the carnival barker, who always somehow manages to escape criticism but should also be gone for allowing this obvious circus to continue unabated for his entire tenure. This organization is completely lacking in accountability and has been for years. We saw this ugliness rear its head again just recently when Keefe had to walk back his (perfectly valid and 100% correct) criticisms of his pampered prima donna stars. The inmates run the asylum in Toronto and this has been obvious to me for years. I'm glad other people are finally waking up to this fact.

You want change and success in Toronto? This entire organization needs to be gutted, top to bottom. Shanahan needs to go, Dubas needs to go, Keefe needs to go and this core needs to be blown into unrecognizable pieces. Then you start building from the ground up once more. Yes, it's horrendous luck (and just so Toronto) that when they finally draft and develop and hit on so many great picks that they all turn out to be spoiled immature children that worship at the shrine of failure when it comes to team success, but continuing to "run it back" for years and years with the same result is an even bigger L that is entirely self inflicted and completely unnecessary.

 

[Lemontree]

He spent 14 million in cap space this year on the stellar defensive games of Tyler Bertuzzi, Max Domi, John Klingberg, and Ryan Reaves... some of this is his doing.

Bertuzzi and Domi are both plus players.

Klingberg hasn't played since Nov 11th and on LTIR (his cap hit is now irrelevant).
Ryan Reaves hasn't played since Dec 14th.

Perhaps you haven't identified why the Leafs team is still struggling defensively.

 

[Matthews4Calder]

Terrible defence construction. Terrible goaltending.

Treliving is a Terrible GM. This was a terrible hire by Shanahan.

You're bang on with the first comment but I would lay more of the blame on Dubas. He screwed this team ever since he caved in to the core 3. With not much cap space and basically no talent or picks Tre took a chance on Klingberg, Domi, Bertuzzi and it hasn't worked. Yes not great work but not much to deal with. I've always said the D and goaltending should have been addressed. Mistake he made was signing Samsonov. Was all smoke and mirrors his play last year. I think he got luckier last year that's it this year not so much. If I was manager I would have saved the -4 million from Sammy, saved Klingbergs money and used both to maybe sign Hellybuyck. Whether he would have came to Toronto who knows but we'd be in a much better position today. If not look at trading or signing somone else better than Sammy which in my opinion wasn't hard to do. Then replace Bertuzzi with a callup and use his money for a decent D man. Think the team would be better off.

 

[Lemontree]

You're bang on with the first comment but I would lay more of the blame on Dubas. He screwed this team ever since he caved in to the core 3. With not much cap space and basically no talent or picks Tre took a chance on Klingberg, Domi, Bertuzzi and it hasn't worked. Yes not great work but not much to deal with. I've always said the D and goaltending should have been addressed. Mistake he made was signing Samsonov. Was all smoke and mirrors his play last year. I think he got luckier last year that's it this year not so much. If I was manager I would have saved the -4 million from Sammy, saved Klingbergs money and used both to maybe sign Hellybuyck. Whether he would have came to Toronto who knows but we'd be in a much better position today. If not look at trading or signing somone else better than Sammy which in my opinion wasn't hard to do. Then replace Bertuzzi with a callup and use his money for a decent D man. Think the team would be better off.

That would have been extremely difficult since Hellybuyck never hit UFA and already signed a contract extension when eligible. Be glad that Sammy is signed to only a 1 year deal, if Dubas was still here, Sammy would likely have a multiyear deal in his back pocket right now as he struggles through this season.

 

[ZEBROA]

1./ First things first, you hire a new coach, and see if he can get something out of this group. It's the simplest manner to try and right the ship.

2./ If that doesn't work, you have to conclude, if you haven't already, that there is just a problem with this group. New President, New GM, maybe a New Coach (again), and then retool.

We allegedly have the top talent in forwards in the league, judging by what they will be paid next year. I mean, we will have four of the top 11 cap hits in the league, so that tells me, they MUST be elite right? My expectation is that we get elite play from them.... on a consistent basis... and that isn't happening.

Before we bitch about defensive construction, Kadri, Kerfoot, Dubas or a bunch of other things that really are irrelevant... our "Elite" guys have to play elite, or none of it matters. It's always been about them... if they are "elite" when it counts, we win... if they aren't, we don't... and here we are. So either a new coach can find a way for them to be elite consistently, or we retool, and find out which guys can play at that level consistently, and which can't.


You think that a guy who was internally suspended, who had run ins with every coach, had his parents called into the office due to his lack of maturity was the guy to be a mentor?

Man this revisionist history.

Better fit with Nylander. I prefer the hothead over the zombie. He seem to work fine on another team. Maby he had grown up if he stayed here. Better mentor in showing feelings. More passion. Mature wise, Nylander would probably mentor Kadri.

I dont think Tavares has been worth his contract at all. Kadri probably would have been.

 

[myleafs]

It is hilarious that you think he is at fault. He didn't put this team together, Kyle 'Spreadsheet' Dubious did.

I hear what your saying but he is the one who spent 15 milly on Bert Domi Kling and Reaves.

 

[Maple Leaf]

They making money they don't care

 

[Fogelhund]

They making money they don't care

They make more money selling tickets to more playoff games.

 

[horner]

They making money they don't care

How much money would they make winning a cup .
Keep counting keep counting.

They are just run by stupid people they are so afraid of making the right decisions

For what JT has done we could have had

Hyman + 5.5 mil dman

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Tavares kind of reminds me of Dion Phaneuf a bit. Imported star, overrated and given the keys to the franchise. They treat him like he’s our Bergeron but he’s really not that at all. I just don’t find him impressive on any level.

And what exactly is he constantly staring at when he is on the bench? They keep showing him just staring off into space when he is zoomed in on. I hope its a nice looking woman plastering herself against the glass opposite of him...but I doubt it. He has the kind of Homer Simpson thing happening that way.

 

[darrylsittler27]

I'm to the point I don't see the point in loading up at TD. We got ror,accari,Schenn and did squat. These guys are paid to carry this team. I'd do a 2nd for a Tanev and let them sink or swim. If you 4 make so much $$$ take responsibility like you do.

 

[disgruntleddave]

After we either lose with a lackluster showing in the playoffs, or just buckle and miss them completely, clean house.

Realistically, keefe would be the fall guy for this year. So rinse and repeat until we start over.

 

[Lemontree]

I'm to the point I don't see the point in loading up at TD. We got ror,accari,Schenn and did squat. These guys are paid to carry this team. I'd do a 2nd for a Tanev and let them sink or swim. If you 4 make so much $$$ take responsibility like you do.

Thanks to previous GM who bleed assets, Leafs don't own a 2nd round pick in 2024, 2025, 2026.

 

[colchar]

I hear what your saying but he is the one who spent 15 milly on Bert Domi Kling and Reaves.

Four players, just four. That doesn't mean he made up this team.

 

[4thline]

Four players, just four. That doesn't mean he made up this team.

He didn't make the team, but he sure ignored what he already had and what you need out of a roster to win hockey games.

 

[colchar]

He didn't make the team, but he sure ignored what he already add and what you need out of a roster to win hockey games.

Can you say that again, but in English this time?

 

[4thline]

Can you say that again, but in English this time?

You got in before my edit.

He spent his money on pieces that individually were nice bets but collectively served little purpose in filling in the gaps in his roster.

 

[myleafs]

Four players, just four. That doesn't mean he made up this team.

He re-signed 34 and 88 as well. As much as this was Dubas's team, Tre is putting his stamp on it and so far it looks to be the same strategy as Dubas had.

 

[GoonieFace]

You got in before my edit.

He spent his money on pieces that individually were nice bets but collectively served little purpose in filling in the gaps in his roster.

The team lacked secondary scoring, now the guys he added haven’t really worked out, but they are 1 year deals, so back to the drawing board.

 

[4thline]

The team lacked secondary scoring, now the guys he added haven’t really worked out, but they are 1 year deals, so back to the drawing board.

Last year, 56 goals by non top 6Fs, this year on pace for 66, at the cost of vastly reducing the bottom 6's defensive utility.