Speculation: Shanny, Treliving, and Keefe; what is your end game?

[Ianturnedbull]

I can't for the life of me understand what is going on with this team.

I see a few things that mostly lead to a negative review from a fan standpoint.

The lines don't seem cohesive. The defense does not appear to be cohesive. The 4th line seems to be another season long audition (I like some individual parts).

Toronto's preseason ended on October 7th, but to me it feels like it ended on Dec. 25th.

What is TOR's system? Puck possession, trap, defense first, dump and chase, stretch passes? Every time I watch them they play differently. Is this a "cannot be properly scouted" tactic?

Any time we've seen improvements this season its been from waiving or putting someone on the IRL.

Are there just too many players too old in too important positions?

What is the honest truth about this team and where it's going?

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[Tie Domi Esquire]

1. Build the next generation of season ticket holders.

- This team lost a generation of fans to Pittsburgh, Washington, Chicago, Ottawa, Montreal, LA, Boston, Vancouver etc. due to their ineptitude after the lockout. The Snore Four has been prioritized to draw in the next generation of fans. While the guys that made you love the Leafs may have been players that carried them deep, played with their heart and soul, and went out on their shield, the next generation's heroes are floating stat padders during the softest era of regular season hockey ever.

2. Make the playoffs.

- The playoff revenue is lovely and this team will cut corners to make a quick buck any day. But the worst part is that this team honestly believes that winning is all about luck. You hear it every year at locker clean out with talk of scoring chances, shooting percentage, hot goaltending, and bounces. They are just waiting for their lucky year. With this level of disrespect towards the Stanley Cup playoffs and the sport itself is it shocking that we've seen these embarrassing showcases? Just get in baby!

 

[hullsy47]

I can't for the life of me understand what is going on with this team.

I see a few things that mostly lead to a negative review from a fan standpoint.

The lines don't seem cohesive. The defense does not appear to be cohesive. The 4th line seems to be another season long audition (I like some individual parts).

Toronto's preseason ended on October 7th, but to me it feels like it ended on Dec. 25th.

What is TOR's system? Puck possession, trap, defense first, dump and chase, stretch passes? Every time I watch them they play differently. Is this a "cannot be properly scouted" tactic?

Any time we've seen improvements this season its been from waiving or putting someone on the IRL.

Are there just too many players too old in too important positions?

What is the honest truth about this team and where it's going?

No structure they still they have 4 conner McDavid s and are gonna outscore everybody
Keefe never was a master technician

 

[kevsh]

I think that the approach of the Leafs - assigning half the cap space to 4 forwards at the expense of the blue line, goal and forward depth - can possibly work. If you've got the right four and fill out the roster near flawlessly.

To me it's clear though that these are the wrong four.
- Tavares came in with a track record of very little playoff success captaining the Islanders. (They did pretty well after he left though)
- Mitch isn't mentally tough enough
- AM is an elite talent but can rather easily be marginalized with tight checking
- Willie's plus is he's very confident and doesn't wilt under pressure, but on the negative side his laid back attitude means he's not exactly overflowing with compete when it's needed.

In any case, with two down and two to go (re: extensions), they will all be here for awhile so my hope is that Treliving sees that this team has likely missed it's prime window (I'd argue they've been getting worse the past few seasons) and doesn't sell what's left of this team's future at the deadline. Instead, he sends a message to the group that unlike Dubas who "believed" in these guys each year despite how many times they let him down, this time they have to show something first.

The new approach under Treliving will start this summer and likely begins with Keefe being fired and a hard target search for a bonafide #1 goaltender.

 

[darrylsittler27]

There is no end game. This year was a big con.

 

[A1LeafNation]

Terrible defence construction. Terrible goaltending.

Treliving is a Terrible GM. This was a terrible hire by Shanahan.

 

[Stephen]

If I read the whole talking points surrounding the William Nylander re-signing, I think there's a large part of the fanbase that's more or less just fed up with whatever process or journey this group has been on and want big, destructive franchise altering change more than anything else.

 

[Eternal Leaf]

If I read the whole talking points surrounding the William Nylander re-signing, I think there's a large part of the fanbase that's more or less just fed up with whatever process or journey this group has been on and want big, destructive franchise altering change more than anything else.

I've been wanting it for the past 3 years.

I mean at least change the coach who has gotten outcoached in every series he's been in.

It's become silly to watch the obvious losses unfold every season and now they aren't even good in the regular season. Only Shanahan and company think this core has what it takes to win the cup as a group.

 

[Stephen]

I've been wanting it for the past 3 years.

I mean at least change the coach who has gotten outcoached in every series he's been in.

It's become silly to watch the obvious losses unfold every season and now they aren't even good in the regular season. Only Shanahan and company think this core has what it takes to win the cup as a group.

The longer this goes, it just turns into who in the leadership group and management and coaching gets punished and purged. Think people are just fed up with this stale product and group.

 

[All Mod Cons]

If I read the whole talking points surrounding the William Nylander re-signing, I think there's a large part of the fanbase that's more or less just fed up with whatever process or journey this group has been on and want big, destructive franchise altering change more than anything else.

If it helps any, I've wanted Tavares and Marner traded since we lost to Columbus. Somehow stupid me could see this wasn't going to work, and the geniuses in the front office couldn't. How in the f*** is that possible?

I would've resigned Hyman and Mikheyev for sure. Kadri wouldn't have been traded. If I was ordered to trade him away, neither Barrie nor Kerfoot would've made my top 100 targets. I wouldn't have traded away a plethora of draft picks every deadline and I wouldn't have drafted the same forward and defenceman over and over again.

I am 100% certain that I, and about 150 others here, could have done a better job over the past 5 or 6 years, than what our management has done.

And I sincerely mean that.

 

[Lemontree]

Terrible defence construction. Terrible goaltending.

Treliving is a Terrible GM. This was a terrible hire by Shanahan.

That's not Treliving's doing. This current roster construction is due to the horrible mismanagement of assets and player evaluations over the past 3-4 years by the former GM who wasted the prime contending window of the current core.

You started laying blame on Treliving as soon as the hire was announced. If the roster construction is poor this time next year than that will reflect on Treviling.....he is still dealing with the mess of a poker hand he was dealt.

 

[Tie Domi Esquire]

If it helps any, I've wanted Tavares and Marner traded since we lost to Columbus. Somehow stupid me could see this wasn't going to work, and the geniuses in the front office couldn't. How in the f*** is that possible?

I would've resigned Hyman and Mikheyev for sure. Kadri wouldn't have been traded. If I was ordered to trade him away, neither Barrie nor Kerfoot would've made my top 100 targets. I wouldn't have traded away a plethora of draft picks every deadline and I wouldn't have drafted the same forward and defenceman over and over again.

I am 100% certain that I, and about 150 others here, could have done a better job over the past 5 or 6 years, than what our management has done.

And I sincerely mean that.

The Kadri trade may have been the craziest move I've seen in a while. The ONLY PLAYER to stand up while the entire team gets ran out of the building and instead of being rewarded, he's sent out of town without anything other than a short phone call. The team was so neutered that a skill player had to do this.

This after being almost ran out of town by an inept management team and complicit media, this after signing a beautiful bargain deal with a bottom feeder because he's loyal. His bargain deal was traded with three years left.

And for Kerfluff and Barrie of all players. Mind blowing.

 

[A1LeafNation]

That's not Treliving's doing. This current roster construction is due to the horrible mismanagement of assets and player evaluations over the past 3-4 years by the former GM who wasted the prime contending window of the current core.

You started laying blame on Treliving as soon as the hire was announced. If the roster construction is poor this time next year than that will reflect on Treviling.....he is still dealing with the mess of a poker hand he was dealt.

4m on Klingberg?

 

[Stephen]

If it helps any, I've wanted Tavares and Marner traded since we lost to Columbus. Somehow stupid me could see this wasn't going to work, and the geniuses in the front office couldn't. How in the f*** is that possible?

I would've resigned Hyman and Mikheyev for sure. Kadri wouldn't have been traded. If I was ordered to trade him away, neither Barrie nor Kerfoot would've made my top 100 targets. I wouldn't have traded away a plethora of draft picks every deadline and I wouldn't have drafted the same forward and defenceman over and over again.

I am 100% certain that I, and about 150 others here, could have done a better job over the past 5 or 6 years, than what our management has done.

And I sincerely mean that.

Tavares kind of reminds me of Dion Phaneuf a bit. Imported star, overrated and given the keys to the franchise. They treat him like he’s our Bergeron but he’s really not that at all. I just don’t find him impressive on any level.

 

[colchar]

What is TOR's system?

All drop passes, all the time.

 

[colchar]

Terrible defence construction. Terrible goaltending.

Treliving is a Terrible GM. This was a terrible hire by Shanahan.

It is hilarious that you think he is at fault. He didn't put this team together, Kyle 'Spreadsheet' Dubious did.

 

[A1LeafNation]

It is hilarious that you think he is at fault. He didn't put this team together, Kyle 'Spreadsheet' Dubious did.

Sure, let's see how Trelivings previous team is doing....

 

[colchar]

Sure, let's see how Trelivings previous team is doing....

Not relevant. Different team, different circumstances.

 

[Lightsol]

That's not Treliving's doing. This current roster construction is due to the horrible mismanagement of assets and player evaluations over the past 3-4 years by the former GM who wasted the prime contending window of the current core.

You started laying blame on Treliving as soon as the hire was announced. If the roster construction is poor this time next year than that will reflect on Treviling.....he is still dealing with the mess of a poker hand he was dealt.

I don't know, none of Dubas' defenses were ever THIS bad. One thing he was good at was finding undervalued pieces, and Tre, Benoit aside, doesn't seem to be very good at doing that.

But the BIG, BIG issue is that the current Leafs are not built like the team Keefe took over, and he hasn't changed anything to compensate for that. They're not longer a speedy team that can outskate you, but Keefe still wants pond ice hockey offense like they are...

The Kadri trade may have been the craziest move I've seen in a while. The ONLY PLAYER to stand up while the entire team gets ran out of the building and instead of being rewarded, he's sent out of town without anything other than a short phone call. The team was so neutered that a skill player had to do this.

This after being almost ran out of town by an inept management team and complicit media, this after signing a beautiful bargain deal with a bottom feeder because he's loyal. His bargain deal was traded with three years left.

And for Kerfluff and Barrie of all players. Mind blowing.

Are you nuts? Kadri HAD to go; twice he got himself thrown out of playoff series because he didn't know how to tone it down. And then he did it multiple times in Colorado, too!

Funny thing, for all the bitching about Kerfoot, we don't have anyone who's really taken his spot this year...

 

[Stephen]

All drop passes, all the time.

The world is round, so if you drop pass enough you might end up in their zone of these days.

 

[Lightsol]

The world is round, so if you drop pass enough you might end up in their zone of these days.

Issue with the Leafs is Keefe's obsession with maintaining possession no matter what. Common sense says that the best play in your own zone when you're trapped is to flip it out, but flipping it out tends to cost you possession, and you can just tell by how the D-Men tend to play that Keefe has told them not to do it to maintain possession. As a result, the D-Men are constantly looking for those stupid short passes that other teams tend to pick off and turn into scoring chances...

You just saw it in the Wings game. Other than the Reilly stick explosion goal, the Red Wings scored both of their goals on short D passes they picked off and threw out front.

 

[centipede2233]

Seems like every gm or coach hire under shanahan has been a massive flop

 

[Stephen]

Issue with the Leafs is Keefe's obsession with maintaining possession no matter what. Common sense says that the best play in your own zone when you're trapped is to flip it out, but flipping it out tends to cost you possession, and you can just tell by how the D-Men tend to play that Keefe has told them not to do it to maintain possession. As a result, the D-Men are constantly looking for those stupid short passes that other teams tend to pick off and turn into scoring chances...

You just saw it in the Wings game. Other than the Reilly stick explosion goal, the Red Wings scored both of their goals on short D passes they picked off and threw out front.

Leafs get eaten up at the opposition hashmarks too. Whether it’s a bad pinch, someone throwing a blind pass off the wall, a blocked shot, etc. they open themselves up to so many counter rushes.

 

[56 Years No Cup]

1. Build the next generation of season ticket holders.

- This team lost a generation of fans to Pittsburgh, Washington, Chicago, Ottawa, Montreal, LA, Boston, Vancouver etc. due to their ineptitude after the lockout. The Snore Four has been prioritized to draw in the next generation of fans. While the guys that made you love the Leafs may have been players that carried them deep, played with their heart and soul, and went out on their shield, the next generation's heroes are floating stat padders during the softest era of regular season hockey ever.

2. Make the playoffs.

- The playoff revenue is lovely and this team will cut corners to make a quick buck any day. But the worst part is that this team honestly believes that winning is all about luck. You hear it every year at locker clean out with talk of scoring chances, shooting percentage, hot goaltending, and bounces. They are just waiting for their lucky year. With this level of disrespect towards the Stanley Cup playoffs and the sport itself is it shocking that we've seen these embarrassing showcases? Just get in baby!

Nailed it. End thread.

 

[Lightsol]

Leafs get eaten up at the opposition hashmarks too. Whether it’s a bad pinch, someone throwing a blind pass off the wall, a blocked shot, etc. they open themselves up to so many counter rushes.

They're too obsessed with maintaining possession. Yes, more possession = better, but there are points where you need to realize losing possession is better than losing possession and giving up a grade A scoring chance.

I truly believe the reason the Leafs D pinch so much and often stupidly is also related to Keefe's obsession with maintaining possession no matter what. It's also why they tend to stick poke instead of throw hits; successful stick pokes are better for stealing possession, whereas hits risk another player grabbing the loose puck.