Shane Pinto's next contract

[Nac Mac Feegle]

After listening to all the reports by insiders (Friedman, Lebrun, Dreger) + Garrioch, it's been reported that:
- the infraction was giving access to a 3rd party to his online gambling account.
- it was discovered by the gambling company via IP addresses.
- the activities occurred last season. His account was accessed in another area while he was in a different location such as playing a game at the same time in another city.
- no one is allowed to give access to their accounts to anyone else. The punishment may seem harsh but they expect NHL players to follow the rules.
- none of the wagers were on NHL games.
- Senators became aware of the issue before training camp.
- Senators were advised a couple of weeks ago that the investigation was completed and were told to stop negotiating. The timing coincides with Shayne being Ottawa and then leaving abruptly.
- A new contract can be signed on Jan 1 or later because he is a RFA2 so the Dec 1st deadline doesn't apply to him.
- His contract will not affect the cap while he's suspended. I think this also means it won't double up when he does return as he will not be receiving any salary while on suspension so he'll only be paid for 41 games.

Speculation is that he will be offered a low-ball offer for the remainder of this season.

Probably a dumb question, but, the suspension doesn't start until he's signed, right?

 

[Samsquanch]

Probably a dumb question, but, the suspension doesn't start until he's signed, right?

Not sure if I'm missing something (because it's been reported on lots), but if Im really the one that gets to give you the good news, then great.

Suspension is retro active to the start of the season, and his contract has no effect on it.

Huge, huge break for us. And it would indicate the Sens and the league have known for a while, and the league are throwing the Sens a bone for getting stuck in limbo with him while they did a proper/thorough investigation into it. Especially for them keeping such a tight lid on it (and catching some strays in the process).

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Not sure if I'm missing something (because it's been reported on lots), but if Im really the one that gets to give you the good news, then great.

Suspension is retro active to the start of the season, and his contract has no effect on it.

Huge, huge break for us. And it would indicate the Sens and the league have known for a while, and the league are throwing the Sens a bone for getting stuck in limbo with him while they did a proper/thorough investigation into it. Especially for them keeping such a tight lid on it (and catching some strays in the process).

Seems like a really odd way of doing it. So Pinto doesn't really lose money that way...just playing time.

 

[Samsquanch]

Seems like a really odd way of doing it. So Pinto doesn't really lose money that way...just playing time.

He absolutely just lost money. Millions when it's all said and done most likely. Now he gets to sign his qualifying offer, and any semblance of leverage he had has been evaporated.

He can and will take what the Senators are giving him (his QO is gonna be a fraction of his asking price of 2.5m +). And he's gonna have to play his ass off and be a perfect citizen for his last 41 games this year to get back into any kind of strong bargaining position next year.

He's I'm damage control mode for the next couple seasons. And beggars can't be choosers.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Seems like a really odd way of doing it. So Pinto doesn't really lose money that way...just playing time.

His deal that he signs for this year will also be prorated so he is losing a half’s year pay on whatever deal he signs.

 

[DrEasy]

He absolutely just lost money. Millions when it's all said and done most likely. Now he gets to sign his qualifying offer, and any semblance of leverage he had has been evaporated.

He can and will take what the Senators are giving him (his QO is gonna be a fraction of his asking price of 2.5m +). And he's gonna have to play his ass off and be a perfect citizen for his last 41 games this year to get back into any kind of strong bargaining position next year.

He's I'm damage control mode for the next couple seasons. And beggars can't be choosers.

Sorry for asking dumb questions here, but why does he have to sign anything now? And why does it have to be the QO? Certainly doing these would be advantageous to the Sens from a cap and salary perspective.

Sure, his reputation took a hit, but he's still a good player, and he can still negotiate all he wants, and sit out if he's not happy with what is offered.

The only immediate piece of "good" news for the Sens that I see (but please correct me if I'm wrong) is that there's no longer any hurry to sign him, since he can't play anyway. And so we should feel lucky that we have players like Tarasenko and Kubalik while he's out, and in a way we've thus maximized our cap. And given how our players tend to get hurt badly and in bunches, by the time his suspension is served fitting him under the cap won't be an issue with potentially many players out for the season. But this is still a hypothetical, however likely it seems.

The other piece of good news would be that by the time he's eligible play, it seems to me that he is also eligible to negotiate his next contract. And so it makes it possible to come to an agreement in which his first contract fits him under the cap while the next contract makes up for any shortfall. But even here, some are saying that it would be a case of cap circumvention, so I don't even know about this either.

 

[Samsquanch]

Sorry for asking dumb questions here, but why does he have to sign anything now? And why does it have to be the QO? Certainly doing these would be advantageous to the Sens from a cap and salary perspective.

Sure, his reputation took a hit, but he's still a good player, and he can still negotiate all he wants, and sit out if he's not happy with what is offered.

The only immediate piece of "good" news for the Sens that I see (but please correct me if I'm wrong) is that there's no longer any hurry to sign him, since he can't play anyway. And so we should feel lucky that we have players like Tarasenko and Kubalik while he's out, and in a way we've thus maximized our cap. And given how our players tend to get hurt badly and in bunches, by the time his suspension is served fitting him under the cap won't be an issue with potentially many players out for the season. But this is still a hypothetical, however likely it seems.

The other piece of good news would be that by the time he's eligible play, it seems to me that he is also eligible to negotiate his next contract. And so it makes it possible to come to an agreement in which his first contract fits him under the cap while the next contract makes up for any shortfall. But even here, some are saying that it would be a case of cap circumvention, so I don't even know about this either.

He has to sign (in theory) for many reasons. Most importantly, he's about to miss 41 games of crucial hockey at this stage of his career, and he NEEDS to play hockey more than anything else.

He let a lot of people close to him down including his team and teammates. He's still an RFA with no rights to arbitration. He no longer has the support of the public in his corner, and has some work to do to clean up his image now.

And he still genuinely looks like he wants to be a Senator, and probably appreciates greatly that they took some shots from the fans and media along the way and kept this situation very quiet. He owes them a solid in actuality.

Yes he can continue hold out and/or demand a trade. But that would be a horrible look for Shane, especially without getting on the ice this season. And it would be a serious gamble on his part that he fits in well with his new team - and also gets the salary he's looking for in the process.

So for all those reasons, I think he's just gotta shut up and play and take it on the chin like a good man does when he f***s up. And then he can grow and continue his career after this all blows over, no harm no foul.

 

[DrEasy]

He has to sign (in theory) for many reasons. Most importantly, he's about to miss 41 games of crucial hockey at this stage of his career, and he NEEDS to play hockey more than anything else.

He let a lot of people close to him down including his team and teammates. He's still an RFA with no rights to arbitration. He no longer has the support of the public in his corner, and has some work to do to clean up his image now.

And he still genuinely looks like he wants to be a Senator, and probably appreciates greatly that they took some shots from the fans and media along the way and kept this situation very quiet. He owes them a solid in actuality.

Yes he can continue hold out and/or demand a trade. But that would be a horrible look for Shane, especially without getting on the ice this season. And it would be a serious gamble on his part that he fits in well with his new team - and also gets the salary he's looking for in the process.

So for all those reasons, I think he's just gotta shut up and play and take it on the chin like a good man does when he f***s up. And then he can grow and continue his career after this all blows over, no harm no foul.

These are all psychological and/or subjective reasons (which may be true), but they are still speculative. What if he's a sociopath and doesn't give an f about his reputation or what he "owes" the org? Holding out may be a gamble for him, but then again now we know after all that he's a gambler.

It seemed, listening to pundits, that there may also be objective $$$ reasons for him to be willing to sign a cap-friendly deal given the suspension, but I fail to see them.

 

[Samsquanch]

These are all psychological and/or subjective reasons (which may be true), but they are still speculative. What if he's a sociopath and doesn't give an f about his reputation or what he "owes" the org? Holding out may be a gamble for him, but then again now we know after all that he's a gambler.

It seemed, listening to pundits, that there may also be objective $$$ reasons for him to be willing to sign a cap-friendly deal given the suspension, but I fail to see them.

All I'm saying is that if he goes in that direction, ie the hard way. Then I'm guessing that its going to be totally against the advice of his advisors.

Smart people around him would tell him to get through this season (with some games played) and then regroup in the summer with a new strategy. If he actually does want to move, now is not the time to demand his way out (which Ottawa has no obligation to do).

Besides that, word is that he's thankful to the organization for being so tight lipped while the public pressure has been on them to resolve his contract dispute. The Ottawa crowds chanting "we want Pinto" and meanwhile Gary Bettman and his crew of lawyers were doing a full cavity search on him in a back room somewhere lmao. Poor kid.

All speculation yes it's true. But if im a betting man (hehe), Pinner signs the QO and works as hard as he can to put this season behind him, and takes one for the team after embarrassing the franchise like that. Squabbling over a million today could potentially cost him dearly in the future if he loses a full season of hockey. It's a bad gamble (hehe).

 

[Samsquanch]

Last point I'll make for this.

You had best believe Shane Pinto f***ed up royally. He did something really, really bad for the players association to immediately sign off on a 41 game suspension - and everyone is happy and all smiles.

And the lawyers of the NHL and their gambling partners put out a fluffy statement calling it case closed... 41 hockey games with no real life consequences (like jail snd/or fines lol).

Almost surely he bet on games through someone else and/or something of that nature. Like obviously. When and who is the answer we will never get.

Regardless Pinto just cost the NHL "fixers" a crapload of money and effort to make this go away with as little damage as it did. And I suspect he will get a private little shove from the NHL and PA to get his name and this incident out of the headlines (ie just shut up and play and smile nicely while your still on probation).

Think about media people speculating on how much this 41 game "sports" (....?) gambling suspension SHOULD cost Pinto if he holds out for a better deal from the Sens... Imagine it dragging on for months lol. And ask yourself if Bettman is gonna let that happen with so much secretly stake in ad revenue?

Pintos signing the QO lol. This guy's one alleged misdemeanor away from getting Formentoned out of the NHL.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

The real Gary Cooper led an interesting private life!


Based on what I have heard and read in the media, the team did not know until just before the start of training camp.

If that is true, then the complaints about Dorion still hold true.

If not true, then someone may not be telling the whole truth about who knew what and when.

No one will ever know for sure when the Senators were informed about the allegations and the investigation, As I’m sure there are NDAs with everyone involved …. It would not be in the Senators interests to confirm they knew anything before the public was informed.

 

[ottawah]

At this point there is no QO for Pinto to sign, that has long since expired. He can be signed anywhere from league minimum (I believe, but there are always arcane rules) to his full value.

My guess is it will be a lower value 1 year 2 way. He is almost assuredly AHL bound to at least get in game shape, so whatever he signs in real cash is about a 60% discount in his pocket, so a lower value contract has a lot less cash implications than if he was on a full year, compared to the goodwill he needs to build back up. And a lower value ensures it is far easier to recall him from the AHL.

That all said, there really is no reason to hurry up and make a deal. It may be best to wait to see if Ottawas cap situation changes in the next two months, i.e. someone has a season ending injury.

 

[JD1]

PD repeatedly chided for being a bumbling idiot for not resolving this situation prior to camp.

PD repeatedly framed as leaking news to his mouthpiece buddy BooBoo when he wants to dump on someone in the media

This situation sure counters some of the daily criticism we see of PD

 

[BankStreetParade]

PD repeatedly chided for being a bumbling idiot for not resolving this situation prior to camp.

PD repeatedly framed as leaking news to his mouthpiece buddy BooBoo when he wants to dump on someone in the media

This situation sure counters some of the daily criticism we see of PD

They were chanting "we want Pinto" at the games and no one heard a peep about the investigation being the cause for delay. He could have easily sewered the kid but not one source around the team said anything.

 

[Golden_Jet]

No one will ever know for sure when the Senators were informed about the allegations and the investigation, As I’m sure there are NDAs with everyone involved …. It would not be in the Senators interests to confirm they knew anything before the public was informed.

There are NDA’s, LeBrun was talking about that on OverDrive, Sens were informed just prior to training camp he said. Then when Pinto left town, that’s when the league told them to pause negotiations.

 

[Tuna99]

Shane Pinto is going to bet on himself

 

[Big Muddy]

I wonder about how much cap space we will have by Jan. 21st to sign Pinto?

We only have $12.8 k now. Even if you use the half of the QO, it would be $437k of cap space required (yes, I know that his contract could be something else other than the QO now).

Can we accumulate enough by then, or would we still need to waive another player at that time?

We only have a 20 player roster now.

Other notes:

1. Chabot is LTIR now, but I'd assume he will be off LTIR by Jan.21
2. That post about said RFA2. I think it should be 10.2.c which is the way it's listed in CapFriendly. If a player is any kind of RFA, I think they'd be eligible for an offer sheet (which he isn't). Pinto didn't have enough games in the season he was injured to get to RFA status. This is a pretty minor point I suppose.

Maybe someone has more info & would like to comment?

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[Ice-Tray]

These are all psychological and/or subjective reasons (which may be true), but they are still speculative. What if he's a sociopath and doesn't give an f about his reputation or what he "owes" the org? Holding out may be a gamble for him, but then again now we know after all that he's a gambler.

It seemed, listening to pundits, that there may also be objective $$$ reasons for him to be willing to sign a cap-friendly deal given the suspension, but I fail to see them.

I think he has to have a contract in order to be able to negotiate an extension in January.

 

[jbeck5]

Could Pinto technically sign a contract for league minimum for this year on January first and at the same time sign a multi year extension?

Like have both contracts ready and signed at the same time?

 

[HF Reader]

PD repeatedly chided for being a bumbling idiot for not resolving this situation prior to camp.

PD repeatedly framed as leaking news to his mouthpiece buddy BooBoo when he wants to dump on someone in the media

This situation sure counters some of the daily criticism we see of PD

Some...But only some for me. If I understand the time line correctly PD put himself in a cap bind prior to learning about the Pinto issue.

 

[GCK]

I think he has to have a contract in order to be able to negotiate an extension in January.

I don’t think he can sign a deal today and then another Jan 1, I think he has to wait a minimum time (6 months ?) after signing a 1 year deal.

 

[Ice-Tray]

I don’t think he can sign a deal today and then another Jan 1, I think he has to wait a minimum time (6 months ?) after signing a 1 year deal.

Could be, quicker the better then in terms of signing.

I think at this point it would just be a good move for both sides just to show that they are good. It also signals that both sides are ready to move forward together.

 

[JD1]

Could Pinto technically sign a contract for league minimum for this year on January first and at the same time sign a multi year extension?

Like have both contracts ready and signed at the same time?

Yes

I don’t think he can sign a deal today and then another Jan 1, I think he has to wait a minimum time (6 months ?) after signing a 1 year deal.

That can't be. He could have signed September for a 1 year deal and then signed a multi-year deal in January

Some...But only some for me. If I understand the time line correctly PD put himself in a cap bind prior to learning about the Pinto issue.

That's true. He was in a cap bind heading into camp. But that's not uncommon

 

[thinkwild]

It sounds like the betting sites tipped off the NHL about unusual betting patterns on Pinto’s account. And they have some sort of integrity monitoring agreement as well. So anonymity not easy.

I remember years ago I had an account at a poker site. And I got an email one day saying they had refunded my $1.50 for 1 game a week prior because somebody at that table was cheating. Just like my bank one day made me sign an affidavit that I didn’t make a withdrawal at a certain bank machine and then refunded the money to me. Their software picked up on it and told me, I hadn’t noticed yet.


Why would Pinto let someone else use his account? Im going to assume the NHLPA sessions to come will be stressing not to do that. But it was bad enough that the NHLPA told Pinto to take the deal and not appeal. I guess an innocent explanation was hard to come by.

Hope his hockey confidence doesnt take too long to recover.

 

[Cosmix]

Seems like a really odd way of doing it. So Pinto doesn't really lose money that way...just playing time.

Pinto would lose 41 games worth of salary.

Sorry for asking dumb questions here, but why does he have to sign anything now? And why does it have to be the QO? Certainly doing these would be advantageous to the Sens from a cap and salary perspective.

Sure, his reputation took a hit, but he's still a good player, and he can still negotiate all he wants, and sit out if he's not happy with what is offered.

The only immediate piece of "good" news for the Sens that I see (but please correct me if I'm wrong) is that there's no longer any hurry to sign him, since he can't play anyway. And so we should feel lucky that we have players like Tarasenko and Kubalik while he's out, and in a way we've thus maximized our cap. And given how our players tend to get hurt badly and in bunches, by the time his suspension is served fitting him under the cap won't be an issue with potentially many players out for the season. But this is still a hypothetical, however likely it seems.

The other piece of good news would be that by the time he's eligible play, it seems to me that he is also eligible to negotiate his next contract. And so it makes it possible to come to an agreement in which his first contract fits him under the cap while the next contract makes up for any shortfall. But even here, some are saying that it would be a case of cap circumvention, so I don't even know about this either.

I suspect Pinto can sign a contract for the remainder of this season (41 games worth) and then also sign another contract for future seasons.