Pre-Game Talk: SENS in the (US) Capital, Wed. 7:00 pm on SportsNet

[Micklebot]

I agree Karlsson is on a serious slide since his return
Doesn’t have the jump to separate himself from the forecheker to launch the attack
And his decisions and timing are off also

One of the big issues is his first step, and it's impacting more than just offense. He simply can't get to loose pucks the way he used to, meaning instead of an easy puck recovery, he's in a 50/50 battle, or worse yet, just doesn't try and maintains a defensive posture leading to a longer cycle.

If there is any chance sitting a week or even two could help, I would do it, but you'd think all the time off around that Sweden trip would have helped, but he seems worse after it.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Bouqcher saying tonight's game really showed chabot needs time in the AHL. Man what must he think of everyone else's game

Was watching for Chabot, and don't think he got onto the ice (for his first shift) until the last few minutes of the first period.
He played more as the game progressed, and he did not look out of place out there, and was not afraid to pinch and keep the puck in offensive zone, and once it resulted in a goal.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

You're not wrong.

But its also about Karlsson not being his super human self willing the team to score and win. He probably won't be that guy for months with that ankle/foot. We're not a good team without super human Karlsson.

agreed, EK65 looks kinda ordinary out there right now, and I'm always waiting for him to step it up, late in games, but he's just not there yet .................... or the injury has set him back a little more permanently than we all want to believe?

 

[Burrowsaurus]

I didn't hear the quotes but people are making it sound like he has to work on things in the AHL. That's a pretty big implication imo if true.

Yeah seriously. Aka " watched him tonight. He's not good enough to be here". When he was one of our better players

 

[Viletho]

Boucher wasn't tough on him at all was he? Just said he had things to work on. And that they love him.
Why people over reacting? Cause hf?

I'm usually one who defend what Boucher says because I feel some people jump and deform quote too suit their negative feeling.

But this one.. i really don't get it. Yes he said, we love him. He's going to be a very good player in the futur, still need to work on little detail.. We know that...

But he start and immedtiatly say : He did good thing, but as you can see that's why he is in the AHL, he got to work on turnovers and defensive plays..

I think it is hypocrite.. For a guy who's playing his 4th game.. He did better then Karlsson, Ceci, Phaneuf, Oduya, Claesson.. overall according to what he was asked to do.. BTW.. poor Claesson.. 11 min.

And i found that hypocrite, especially since Karlsson is been a shot block giver machine all year and is given the puck over A LOT, Phaneuf cannot skate to the puck, Oduya is doing mistake with the puck too, Ceci too, Etc..

 

[Viletho]

Yeah seriously. Aka " watched him tonight. He's not good enough to be here". When he was one of our better players

Pierre Mcguire on tsn1200 was like : They need to tell me what he did wrong? ''If Chabot has to work on the little details... There is a few who need to work on the big détails.. ''

I liked that he said that. Chabot played very well yesterday..

 

[BatherSeason]

Not sure if this sounds like a broken record, but, Ceci and Phaneuf looked lost of the ice the majority of the game. No idea what Ceci was thinking at the end of the first, just horrible decision making and there is no excuse for that. Other than that, he may have been the worst player on the ice last night. Yet, Cody Ceci continues to get a free ride from the org and the media.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

12th in the East. Everything is fine.

tied for sixth best record (0.550) in the Conference, with the Hurricanes & Bruins.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

We can't let Boucher come to the draft. When we have dev camp and
Training camp just tell him all the youngsters are 28 year olds from Europe.

 

[Micklebot]

I remember some years with lalime barely hovering over .900 but our team was able to score to win the game and fight for Presidents trophies and division titles.

.905, .903, and .905 were 3 of lalimes seasons. We were a 100-110 point team and didn't have a superstar forward. Alfie had yet to become a top player in the league and hossa was a ~60 point winger like stone. You can have an inferior team with a proper system.

Season	Goalie sv%	League average
99-00	.905 (.579 pts%)	.904
00-01	.914 (.665 pts%)	.903
01-02	.903 (.573 pts%)	.908
02-03	.911 (.689 pts%)	.909
03-04	.905 (.622 pts%)	.911
17-18	.896 (.550 pts%)	.911

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Do you see the difference? Those teams were also considered far more talented teams imo. Alfredsson and Hossa look to have built up HOF careers, Yashin was a top 10 center in the league before being traded. Havlat was a young stud comparable to Hoffman in terms of impact. While we didn`t have a Karlsson, Redden was ver good and we had a pretty deep group overall


Edit: Hossa had two 80 pts seasons and a 75 pts season in those 5 years, Alfredsson was a pt per game in 4 out of 5 of those seasons, Yashin only played two, but was 2nd in hart voting one of them and 14th the other (94 pts and 88 respectively). What the heck are you talking about no superstar forwards???

 

[jbeck5]

The owner may not stick his fingers in every day game decisions as to who dresses or plays etc... but his money is more than just about signing checks. It's an investment. If the product goes downhill he can lose millions. As a single owner he has a vested interest in the success of the team finances and the on ice product will affect that.

It's not like that everywhere but in Ottawa there are no shareholders or CEO or board of governors over the team. The GM reports directly to the owner. If Melnyk doesn't like the direction of the team he calls the GM in and asks for an explanation and corrective plans. If he's not satisfied heads roll. If he wants the coach gone he's gone. If the GM resists he's gone too. It's that simple. Not saying it will happen but Melnyk should be making that call soon to find out what Dorion has in his back pocket and then let him put his own head in the noose if it doesn't work.

That's why you hire the right people to run it. If they aren't cutting it, you fire them and hire someone better.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Not sure if this sounds like a broken record, but, Ceci and Phaneuf looked lost of the ice the majority of the game. No idea what Ceci was thinking at the end of the first, just horrible decision making and there is no excuse for that. Other than that, he may have been the worst player on the ice last night. Yet, Cody Ceci continues to get a free ride from the org and the media.

Ceci and phaneuf do not belong together. And neither belong with oduya.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

WAIT!! According to many here, we haven't lost 4 in a row because OT/Shootout losses don't count. So, in reality we have only lost 2 in a row.

(PS I am not one of those people)

Ottawa has 6 regulation losses ... AKA games in which no points were earned.

Only the Devils and Lightning have fewer regulation losses.

The NHL playoff seeding is based on the number of points earned during the season, with a number of tie breakers used to determine the final standings.

After last night's games, the Senators playoff odds dropped down 60.04% to 50.94%..... not trending in the correct direction.


Ottawa Senators Chance Will Make Playoffs - Sports Club Stats

 

[Xspyrit]

Score effect in play there. Caps were well ahead in terms of chances then played much more passive and safe after getting the 2 goal lead.

yeah and that's also the reason why our corsi sucks when we lead (last year), because we turtle like crazy.

 

[jbeck5]

Season	Goalie sv%	League average
99-00	.905 (.579 pts%)	.904
00-01	.914 (.665 pts%)	.903
01-02	.903 (.573 pts%)	.908
02-03	.911 (.689 pts%)	.909
03-04	.905 (.622 pts%)	.911
17-18	.896 (.550 pts%)	.911

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Do you see the difference? Those teams were also considered far more talented teams imo. Alfredsson and Hossa look to have built up HOF careers, Yashin was a top 10 center in the league before being traded. Havlat was a young stud comparable to Hoffman in terms of impact. While we didn`t have a Karlsson, Redden was ver good and we had a pretty deep group overall


Edit: Hossa had two 80 pts seasons and a 75 pts season in those 5 years, Alfredsson was a pt per game in 4 out of 5 of those seasons, Yashin only played two, but was 2nd in hart voting one of them and 14th the other (94 pts and 88 respectively). What the heck are you talking about no superstar forwards???

Well I was talking about once yashin was gone.

Alfredsson was always missing big chunks and didn't amass high point totals.

Hossas first 4 years were 30, 56, 75,66...very similar to stone's points in his first 4 years.

And I agree havlat was like Hoffman.

What I mean by no superstar forwards is in that span, no one ever talked about our players getting hardware. We didn't have anyone putting up 90-110 points competing for the art Ross like the pizza line days. We didn't have a karlsson level forward. Yashin came close to a Hart in 99. Other than that we were known to have many guys who could hit 20+goals on any given year and played a system that relied on counter attacks and running up the score when the other team would get behind and take risks. That's why if we got up by one, we were likely to go up by 2 or maybe 3 and ended up with massive plus seasons.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

At least chabot wasn't played on the left. ANf look! No one took advantage of that

 

[BatherSeason]

Ottawa has 6 regulation losses ... AKA games in which no points were earned.

Only the Devils and Lightning have fewer regulation losses.

The NHL playoff seeding is based on the number of points earned during the season, with a number of tie breakers used to determine the final standings.

After last night's games, the Senators playoff odds dropped down 60.04% to 50.94%..... not trending in the correct direction.


Ottawa Senators Chance Will Make Playoffs - Sports Club Stats

So are you saying that we are on a two game losing streak or a 4 gamer??

 

[Micklebot]

Well I was talking about once yashin was gone.

Alfredsson was always missing big chunks and didn't amass high point totals.

Hossas first 4 years were 30, 56, 75,66...very similar to stone's points in his first 4 years.

And I agree havlat was like Hoffman.

What I mean by no superstar forwards is since in that span, no one ever talked about our players getting hardware. We didn't have a karlsson level forward. Yashin came close to a Hart in 99. Other than that we were known to have many guys who could hit 20+goals on any given year and played a system that relied on counter attacks and running up the score when the other team would get behind and take risks. That's why if we got up by one, we were likely to go up by 2 or maybe 3 and ended up with massive plus seasons.

Ok, so years after Yashin (so only one of Hossa's first 4 years) and with Lalime, so were talking about 2001-02 -2003-04

Year	Hossa	Alfredsson
2001-02	80 gp 31 g 66pts	78 gp 37 g 71 pts
2002-03	80 gp 45 g 80 pts	78 gp 27 g 78 pts
2003-04	81 gp 36 g 82 pts	77 gp 32 g 80 pts

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Hossa was 5th in league scoring 6th in goals in 03-04 14th in scoring 4th in goals 02-03, and Alfredsson 7th in pts 03-04 and 12th in goals. Alfredsson was 9th in goals in 01-02.

We were not starved for talent by any means.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

So are you saying that we are on a two game losing streak or a 4 gamer??

What I'm saying is some losses are worse than others.
An OT or SO loss still earns a team a point, and would have been called a "Tie" in the pre OT & SO days of the NHL.

Ignoring the points earned in OT & SO is being a little shortsighted, and just spinning them as a "loss" is a glass half empty attitude.

 

[BatherSeason]

What I'm saying is some losses are worse than others.
An OT or SO loss still earns a team a point, and would have been called a "Tie" in the pre OT & SO days of the NHL.

Ignoring the points earned in OT & SO is being a little shortsighted, and just spinning them as a "loss" is a glass half empty attitude.

Sooo, according to you, we are on a 2 game losing streak and a 4-game losing streak with points?

 

[jbeck5]

Ok, so years after Yashin (so only one of Hossa's first 4 years) and with Lalime, so were talking about 2001-02 -2003-04

Year	Hossa	Alfredsson
2001-02	80 gp 31 g 66pts	78 gp 37 g 71 pts
2002-03	80 gp 45 g 80 pts	78 gp 27 g 78 pts
2003-04	81 gp 36 g 82 pts	77 gp 32 g 80 pts

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Hossa was 5th in league scoring 6th in goals in 03-04 14th in scoring 4th in goals 02-03, and Alfredsson 7th in pts 03-04 and 12th in goals. Alfredsson was 9th in goals in 01-02.

We were not starved for talent by any means.

I never said we were starved for talent. I said we never really had a big time superstar who was predicted with regularity to finish top 5 or 10 in scoring. Aside from that one year where hossa was competing for the goal scoring title with naslund and iginla, it was essentially 30ish goal hossa plus a handful of 20 goal scorers. We didn't have a Thornton putting up 120, or a Crosby and Malkin up the middle.

Our top 6 centers were radek bonk and Todd white.

All I'm saying is the things I hear as MUSTS to make the playoffs aren't must generally.

"We need a true #1 center to be successful"
"We need our goalies to steal games"
Etc. Can all be overcome with depth and a top of the line system.

 

[Micklebot]

I never said we were starved for talent. I said we never really had a big time superstar who was predicted with regularity to finish top 5 or 10 in scoring. Aside from that one year where hossa was competing for the goal scoring title with naslund and iginla, it was essentially 30ish goal hossa plus a handful of 20 goal scorers. We didn't have a Thornton putting up 120, or a Crosby and Malkin up the middle.

Our top 6 centers were radek bonk and Todd white.

All I'm saying is the things I hear as MUSTS to make the playoffs aren't must generally.

"We need a true #1 center to be successful"
"We need our goalies to steal games"
Etc. Can all be overcome with depth and a top of the line system.

Ok, but this whole line of discussion was started by you claiming we won games just fine with Lalime getting ~.905 sv% in response to me saying no coach can overcome a sub 900 sv%.

My response was just highlighting that we had a stronger overall roster back then; Neither Stone nor Hoffman has ever finished top 20 in scoring, Alfredsson and Hossa were both doing during the period in question and that doesn't even account for guys like Havlat. The reality is, Ottawa didn't overcome terrible goaltending, they overcame league average goaltending, with a deeper roster.

But aside from that, I'm specifically talking about the coach. He can't take a good team, and overcome terrible goaltending. Yeah, if we had Malkin and Crosby down the middle, maybe there's a chance, but we aren't an elite team minus goaltending, we're a middle of the pack team when we have good goaltending. Coaching won't fix that.

There are no certainties in terms of how to build a team, but this team isn't built to overcome the goaltending we're getting. Heck, even the Pens are having a hard time overcoming similarly terrible goaltending and if any team has the talent to outscore their problems in net it's them.

 

[Alex1234]

tied for sixth best record (0.550) in the Conference, with the Hurricanes & Bruins.

17 th in the entire league (.550) and not tied because we have fewer wins then Car and BOS
Surfing on points accumulated at the beginning of the season
and trending downward

Not good and not looking good with CBJ and NYI on a back to back

 

[Xspyrit]

So are you saying that we are on a two game losing streak or a 4 gamer??

Sens are on a 0-3-1 losing streak

You're not going to harp on this all season, are you?

Thing is every team get OTLs, and at the end of the season it all balances out around ~10-12 OTL per team. Maybe the Sens have gotten more of those OTL in the first 20 games of the season than they will for the rest of the way (wouldn't be the first time I see a team do that). What is important is the W/L column, and so far they are 8-6 (3 straight regulation losses though, which is not a good thing)

17 th in the entire league (.550) and not tied because we have fewer wins then Car and BOS
Surfing on points accumulated at the beginning of the season
and trending downward

Not good and not looking good with CBJ and NYI on a back to back

Yeah a 0-3-1 stretch pretty much scraps a good beginning of the season because we are only at 20 games played, so it has a lot of impact rather than if we were at 60 games played. Let's just hope that they don't have many stretches like that this season.

And just to nitpick, Sens are 15th in P% right now.

NHL.com - Stats

 

[Tundraman]

I don't care how they count wins and losses but to make the playoffs they might need around 98 points. Right now they are on pace for 90.2 points.