Pre-Game Talk: SENS in the (US) Capital, Wed. 7:00 pm on SportsNet

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Ok, but this all started when somebody said they were 17th league wide in Pts% because Carolina and Boston, who both had the same games played and pts% held the tie breaker, to which you posted they were 15th because the stats page had Ottawa listed ahead of them. They aren't 15th in the league because of tie breakers. Carolina and Boston both hold the tie breaker, so Boston would get the divisional spot, and Carolina would get the 1st wild card spot ahead of us.

Now, it's all well and good to say we have a better pts% than Detroit, Pens, NYR, and Washington, so our games in hand should be enough to regain that final wildcard spot when it's all said and done, but nobody was just looking at pts in the standings so I'm not sure why you're lecturing them on using Pts% instead. They are just stating that even in Pts%, we are 17th, not 15th league wide. The stats page applies incorrect tie breaking procedures.

If you click on this link, NHL.com - Stats
it shows Ottawa ranked 15th based on P%, due to fewer losses in regulation (than Boston and Carolina).

I acknowledge that P% is just a comparison tool, and does not factor into the NHL's tie breaking procedure in any way.

What do you see (right now) when you click on the link (above)?

 

[Micklebot]

If you click on this link, NHL.com - Stats
it shows Ottawa ranked 15th based on P%, due to fewer losses in regulation (than Boston and Carolina).

I acknowledge that P% is just a comparison tool, and does not factor into the NHL's tie breaking procedure in any way.

What do you see (right now) when you click on the link (above)?

You're missing the point. Pts% is applied to level the playing field when teams don't have the same number of games played. If the NHL stats page happened to list teams tied using alphabetical order, you'd be saying they are in 17th. All people are saying is that Ottawa is best case scenario 17th in the league right now, not 15th as the stats page ordered by pts% implies. Their lack of applying the correct tie breaking procedure doesn't change that reality.

You claim that the reason for them being 15th is fewer regulation loses, but that's not likely the case, as it's inconsistent with the rest of the ranking; Washington and the Pens are tied in pts%, but Washington is ahead despite having 1 more regulation lose. The ranking beyond pts% seems to be completely arbitrary, so "correcting" somebody who says they are in 17th by showing a stats page ranking them 15th, not applying the official tie breaking procedure doesn't really carry much weight, nor is it representative of the actual situation.

 

[BatherSeason]

So some people, who only look at the standings, might think that the Wings are playing better than the Senators, because they sit in a Play off spot, while the Senators are not even in a Wild Card PO spot.

**Newsflash** The Red Wings ARE playing better, they have actually won 2 games in their last 4, and I didn't have to look at the standings to see this. They have also scored 16 goals in their last 4, while we have only scored 5. Again, the standings didn't tell me this.

Plus, the beat both Phoenix and Vegas.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

**Newsflash** The Red Wings are playing better, they have actually won 2 games in their last 4, and I didn't have to look at the standings to see this.

Plus, the beat both Phoenix and Vegas.

I feel like when you're doing bad at anything. You're really in trouble when you start looking around and saying "but look they're worse. They're bad too!" (This is directed at everyone pointing out we're actually not dead last in the standings )

 

[Micklebot]

I feel like when you're doing bad at anything. You're really in trouble when you start looking around and saying "but look they're worse. They're bad too!" (This is directed at everyone pointing out we're actually not dead last in the standings )

Obviously we're in trouble if the skaters continue to play the way we have over the last 3 games (I thought we were fine from what I saw of the Arz game, outside of goaltending) and the goaltending remains flakey. Every team goes through ups and downs like this, our issue is that unlike in previous years, our goaltending isn't bailing us out this time.

It's doubtful we'll be like this for the rest of the year, we've seen that this team can play at a high level (1st period against the Pens was one of the most dominant we've played in a while), but we need to get the confidence back. Team is lacking some spark, hopefully somebody will step up and provide it.

Wrt comparing us to other teams, well it's kind of the nature of the beast; playing poorly is relative to the rest of the league. Having said that, right now, regardless of the standings, we are not playing better than teams behind us in pts%, such as the Pens, the Caps, Detroit, ect.

 

[Xspyrit]

I have never in my life heard of anyone refer to a losing streak that way. I guess this is the new NHL

Time to evolve.

In case you didn't know, there was tie games before. The NHL decided that there is an absolute need to have a "winner" so they implemented the shootouts where the team winning that "exhibition" could have an extra point. Before that, it was simply a tie. So in the old system, the Sens would still have those 4 points they got for getting it to a SO.

Now concerning OT wins or losses, if a game was tied after regulation, the teams played 5 more minutes of 5-on-5 sudden death overtime. If the game remained tied after overtime, it was simply a tie

So the chances are also very high that they wouldn't have lost 2 games in OT playing 5 minutes of 5 on 5, so the Sens would probably have those 6 points regardless that you like it or not. See it as pure losses if you want, I don't think anybody cares.

Personally, I think there's a huge difference in losing a game 3-0 or 5-2 vs "losing" 3-2 because of a shootout

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

You're missing the point. Pts% is applied to level the playing field when teams don't have the same number of games played. If the NHL stats page happened to list teams tied using alphabetical order, you'd be saying they are in 17th. All people are saying is that Ottawa is best case scenario 17th in the league right now, not 15th as the stats page ordered by pts% implies. Their lack of applying the correct tie breaking procedure doesn't change that reality.

You claim that the reason for them being 15th is fewer regulation loses, but that's not likely the case, as it's inconsistent with the rest of the ranking; Washington and the Pens are tied in pts%, but Washington is ahead despite having 1 more regulation lose. The ranking beyond pts% seems to be completely arbitrary, so "correcting" somebody who says they are in 17th by showing a stats page ranking them 15th, not applying the official tie breaking procedure doesn't really carry much weight, nor is it representative of the actual situation.

Once again, Points percentage is NOT used in any way shape of form, in the NHL tie breaking system to determine the "Standings" ...... the Standings are based on points earned to that point of the season.

Points Percentage shows the teams record in a percentage of points accumulated in the number of points available in the number of games played, to that point of the season.

Therefore if you want to compare the records (to date) of two teams, that have not played the same number of games........ then Points Percentage is the fairest way of doing so.


Nowhere in this, or any other thread have I even implied that the points percentage calculation in any way impacts the official points Standings.

Please, just think Winning percentage, but understand that the NHL issues points, in some games, when a team actually loses the game ......... so they can't use "Winning Percentage", so the switched to "Points Percentage" back in 2005 ............. prior to that they used "Winning percentage" on their stats page...... and again winning percentage had zero impact on the Points Standings.


I don't know how much clearer I can be.

I'll point out that the Red Wings are currently in Third place in the Division, with 23 points (tie breaking rules applied) and Ottawa is in Fifth place (tie breaking rules applied).............BUT Ottawa still has a better record, based on the number of earned points to points available ratio AKA P%, which is 0.550 vs Detroit with a record of 0.523.

A team with a 0.550 record, has a better record than one with a 0.523 record.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

"Points Percentage" takes the points a team "has obtained" and divides it by the points the team "could have obtained."



"Points Percentage" tells you the exact success rate of an NHL team. It tells you how many points they have earned, and how many they have left on the table.

 

[Micklebot]

Once again, Points percentage is NOT used in any way shape of form, in the NHL tie breaking system to determine the "Standings" ...... the Standings are based on points earned to that point of the season.

Points Percentage shows the teams record in a percentage of points accumulated in the number of points available in the number of games played, to that point of the season.

Therefore if you want to compare the records (to date) of two teams, that have not played the same number of games........ then Points Percentage is the fairest way of doing so.


Nowhere in this, or any other thread have I even implied that the points percentage calculation in any way impacts the official points Standings.

Please, just think Winning percentage, but understand that the NHL issues points, in some games, when a team actually loses the game ......... so they can't use "Winning Percentage", so the switched to "Points Percentage" back in 2005 ............. prior to that they used "Winning percentage" on their stats page...... and again winning percentage had zero impact on the Points Standings.


I don't know how much clearer I can be.

I'll point out that the Red Wings are currently in Third place in the Division, with 23 points (tie breaking rules applied) and Ottawa is in Fifth place (tie breaking rules applied).............BUT Ottawa still has a better record, based on the number of earned points to points available ratio AKA P%, which is 0.550 vs Detroit with a record of 0.523.

A team with a 0.550 record, has a better record than one with a 0.523 record.

Why do you keep avoiding the initial claim that started this:

17 th in the entire league (.550) and not tied because we have fewer wins then Car and BOS
Surfing on points accumulated at the beginning of the season
and trending downward

Not good and not looking good with CBJ and NYI on a back to back

He was talking about pts%, and noted that we are technically 17th in the league in because of tie breaking procedures. Pts% isn't the official way of calculating the standings because at the end of the year, everybody plays the same number of games, so pts, and pts% become the exact same thing, but if you are going to use it, you need to do so with the understanding that at the end of the year, the rest of the tie breakers will be applied. Arguing that we are actually 15th because the stats page has us 15th, and that we shouldn't apply the official tie breakers because god knows why doesn't change the reality that Carolina and Boston have a better record than us. It's that simple. There is literally nothing you can say that can change the fact that Boston and Carolina have better records than Ottawa, which was always the point being made.

 

[BatherSeason]

Micklebot is right that goaltending is the biggest issue right now. Teams get affected when their goalie isn't making the timely saves.

To be honest, this team has multiple issues, but you are right, goaltending right now is far and away the biggest problem (other than Ceci). Seems like Anderson doesn't even move half the time when goals are going in. Almost like he is frozen still. I don't care how screened he is, you gotta know a shot is coming, so try to put yourself in a position to stop the puck, instead of freezing then throwing your hands in the air because you couldn't see. 2 of the first 3 Caps goals, Andy didn't move.