Pre-Game Talk: SENS in Detroit, Wed, Jan 3, 7:30 pm on SportsNet

[Karl Prime]

No controller here, you want continued mediocrity while I want a long term winner. Keeping EK keeps us a bubble team for years, just like that Price contract with the Habs. You are Bergevin here while I’m Shannaban

If we tear it down around EK and Stone then EK walks as a FA for nothing. A full rebuild unfortunately starts with the captain. P.S. I own 3 game worn EK jerseys

And the Sens becoming an annual dominant team in your scenario only works it if all those prospects become impact players - and if they do, then there's only a short window before all of those guys would be need to be paid. If Dahlin is as good as he's projected to be, he'll be on a 9 mil+ per deal after his ELC.

 

[Karl Prime]

I know but my point was that every Canadian city is hard on their star players.

Question, has any other NHL team let alone Canadian club worshiped a player like Sens fan do Alfie?

Have you heard of Maurice Richard?

 

[pepty]

Yes, but he had his critics for a long time. It wasn’t always like that. People liked him initially when he won the Calder and helped get us in the playoffs in 97 and 98. Then when he became captain and we got bounced in the first round a few times, people were hard on him. He got a lot of heat in 2006 when we lost to Buffalo. Plus Pominville walked him on the winning goal.

He wasn’t always a god here.

Far from it.I remember for example Don Cherry showing a video highlighting all of Alfies misplays. Instead of supporting him Lee Versage and Glen Kulka ranted on their program day after day about stripping the C from Alfie because they didn't think he sounded like a true Captain.There were polls in the Sun about trading him and fans calling him heartless on the phone in shows.
Alfie has since said that was the toughest time of his career and he thought of retiring. But of course, his greatest days were still ahead of him.

 

[Langdon Alger]

I know but my point was that every Canadian city is hard on their star players.

Question, has any other NHL team let alone Canadian club worshiped a player like Sens fan do Alfie?

I don’t know. Edmonton with McDavid I would think. Naslund in Vancouver has to be held in pretty high regard. Same with Sundin in Toronto.

Alfie was worshipped after being torn apart at times like I said in my previous post.

I think part of it is our history. We don’t have the history of an original six team like Montreal and Toronto who have legends that played for those teams many years ago. We’re a younger team. Only 25 years old. Is that part of it? Maybe.

 

[harrisb]

Been watching the World Juniors I take it?

It's not idiotic to sign Karlsson long term. Risky? Yes, all long term, big money deals are. But when he's on his game, he's one of the most influential, most valuable, and very best players in the world. The best defensemen of his generation. To think that he can overcome this rough patch and continue to be one of the very best in the world is not unreasonable. And the chances of getting fair value for him in a trade is slim.

I never said it was idiotic to sign him, I said tying up 12m for him or any player is not wise. We don’t have a young supporting cast around him and by the time we do he’ll be in his 30’s.

He’s a fantastic player, I believe top 5 in the world but that is exactly why we start a rebuild using him as the first chip. We’ve been patching this team together since the Spezza, Alfie, heater days and it’s time to hit reset and suck for 3 or 4 years

 

[Karl Prime]

Many, many bad games. Many.

And he's also had games where he shows what he really is - like the outdoor game vs Montreal. 82 games is hard enough to play even with a full summer of training, and he's trying to play a near-full season when he wasn't even walking most of the summer. It's fine to criticize his play and blame him in part for the downturn the season has taken, but to do that you also have to acknowledge that there's a good chance he's much better next season when his body (not foot, body) is at the level he needs it to be to be Erik Karlsson.

 

[Langdon Alger]

Have you heard of Maurice Richard?

I assumed he was looking for more recent examples. Of course there have been some legends that were worshiped in Canadian cities. Alfie isn’t the only one. That’s silly.

 

[Karl Prime]

I never said it was idiotic to sign him, I said tying up 12m for him or any player is not wise. We don’t have a young supporting cast around him and by the time we do he’ll be in his 30’s.

He’s a fantastic player, I believe top 5 in the world but that is exactly why we start a rebuild using him as the first chip. We’ve been patching this team together since the Spezza, Alfie, heater days and it’s time to hit reset and suck for 3 or 4 years

#1 As long as Melnyk is owner there won't be a full rebuild because he can't afford it. #2 Tearing it down doesn't guarantee any future success - you just have to look at Edmonton for that.

 

[Langdon Alger]

I never said it was idiotic to sign him, I said tying up 12m for him or any player is not wise. We don’t have a young supporting cast around him and by the time we do he’ll be in his 30’s.

He’s a fantastic player, I believe top 5 in the world but that is exactly why we start a rebuild using him as the first chip. We’ve been patching this team together since the Spezza, Alfie, heater days and it’s time to hit reset and suck for 3 or 4 years

Careful what you wish for. A sucky team for 3-4 years is really going to hurt attendance. Not to mention that sucking for that long doesn’t guarantee success.

 

[Langdon Alger]

#1 As long as Melnyk is owner there won't be a full rebuild because he can't afford it. #2 Tearing it down doesn't guarantee any future success - you just have to look at Edmonton for that.

Columbus and Atlanta also had tons of top ten picks and it didn’t do them much good.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

Columbus and Atlanta also had tons of top ten picks and it didn’t do them much good.

They had clowns managing their teams. Doug Maclean, Craig MacTavish and Don Waddell actually remind me a lot of Dorion. Rebuilding with Dorion would be so painful.

Just to be clear, if Karlsson won't resign on July 1st, I'm in the rebuild boat but please god don't let that man do it.

 

[harrisb]

Careful what you wish for. A sucky team for 3-4 years is really going to hurt attendance. Not to mention that sucking for that long doesn’t guarantee success.

I’ll take my chances, we’re lighting it up right now....P.S. Brassard, Ryan, Phaneuf are not going to get better next year so expect more of the same unless we luck in to Dahlin.

As it stands we need 2 top 4 dmen, 2 top six forwards and push the others out the bottom. We don’t have the assets or cap space with the current makeup to swing that. Tearing it down means in 3-4 years that dead weight is gone and the youngsters have a chance to play.

Also, there’s also obviously some issues in the room, I don’t know what or who but they’ve got problems.

I forgot, we also need more goalie depth than hogberg as we need consistency not bottom of the league

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Not true. He was awful after coming back from the Achilles injury. Why were so many people asking the team to make him a forward?

He’s had too major setbacks in his career so far with injuries. It took time to get back to normal the first time, and the same thing is happening now.

Awful? He came back for the playoffs where he was decent.

 

[harrisb]

And the Sens becoming an annual dominant team in your scenario only works it if all those prospects become impact players - and if they do, then there's only a short window before all of those guys would be need to be paid. If Dahlin is as good as he's projected to be, he'll be on a 9 mil+ per deal after his ELC.

We’re not getting any other picks, prospects, FA’s or free wallets during our tenure of suckage?

 

[Karl Prime]

We’re not getting any other picks, prospects, FA’s or free wallets during our tenure of suckage?

You're assuming that the team would be bad for 4 years with Dahlin, who will likely be a stud his first year in the league. His presence alone would likely tank-proof the team. Stone and Duchene are good, Fabbri is good. Then there's Thomas, Chabot, White, Brown, Kyrou, Formenton, and Batherson - all of whom could be solid NHLers by their 2nd year in the league. A team like that probably wouldn't be awful for 4 years.

So many things have to go right in order for what you are suggesting to work. Dorion getting great returns for Karlsson, Hoffman, Brassard, Pageau, Ceci ... all the prospects developing .... having the right coach As I said, look at how it's worked for Edmonton. They have Connor freakin' McDavid and are struggling. They got three straight #1 overall picks and nothing changed for them. And as I already said, the team probably won't go into a full-on rebuild so long as Melnyk is the owner. If Karlsson gets traded in July the team still probably tries to be competitive.

 

[DylanSensFan]

Being in a wheelchair limits my activities . I apologize if this bothers you

I had no idea, but it's not like being in a wheel chair has limited your criticism of Karlsson or any portion of the team.

 

[Langdon Alger]

Awful? He came back for the playoffs where he was decent.

He looked awful at times. I’m actually referring more to the next year. 13-14. I think that’s the year a lot of people wanted him to become a forward.

 

[Karl Prime]

He looked awful at times. I’m actually referring more to the next year. 13-14. I think that’s the year a lot of people wanted him to become a forward.

I've honestly wondered what kind of career Erik would have had had he been a forward. His tools are through-the-roof amazing for a RW. Don't get me wrong though - I'm not saying I would have preferred it. His skillset is so great for a D-man because of his skating, puck retrieval, and transition game, all of which are obviously exceptional. And he gets to play 27 minutes a night controlling the action, which is basically why the Sens have half the wins they do over the past 5 seasons with how bad they have generally been without him on the ice.

 

[Korpse]

Saw this tweet...



still amazed people were upset with the turnover

 

[Sens]

It's idiotic to trade Karlsson. This guy will recover and make our fan base look like idiots for even suggesting a trade. I just do not understand such a thought process. We are not ever going to win a Karlsson trade. I am tired of people also saying this is his new normal. As if he was training all off season and stepped on to the ice fully recovered. Give it a ****ing break.

Once upon a time a chunk of the fan base wanted Alfredsson dealt

 

[albator71]

I never said it was idiotic to sign him, I said tying up 12m for him or any player is not wise. We don’t have a young supporting cast around him and by the time we do he’ll be in his 30’s.

He’s a fantastic player, I believe top 5 in the world but that is exactly why we start a rebuild using him as the first chip. We’ve been patching this team together since the Spezza, Alfie, heater days and it’s time to hit reset and suck for 3 or 4 years

I'm with you, i've been saying this for months now, signing Erik Karlsson to an 8 years 11+M contract is crazy! He's not going to be worth that moving forward, he's foot is a mess, he's getting older and i don't see him being dominant as he was in the past.
Fans get attached to much to players, at one point you have to say thank you for your service and move on. Too many mistake as been done also in the past with contracts that puts the sens in a bad spot right now, so its gonna be a long process to clean everything up and like you I think trading Karlsson is the first step.

 

[BondraTime]

I don't know if I can remember a worse ownership/management/coaching/roster combo in a long time. And that's extremely sad considering the likes of Buffalo/Arizona/Carolina/2000 Era Leafs/etc.

This f***ing sucks, go back to being a good franchise

 

[Beville]

New Year, New Te....

Oh wait no, still stuck in the rut that was 2017.

 

[Simplicity]

I want him traded so we can build a dynasty. That’s not being idiotic it’s looking at the long game.

Being idiotic is holding on to him for so long that his value is diminished. Imagine a future of Thomas, Kyrou, Fabbri, Dahlin, Batherson, Formenton, Brown, Chlapik, White, Chabot, etc, etc, etc. And those first 3 are probably just part of what EK returns, then add in Hoffman, Brassard, Pageau and we’d have an insane prospect pool. Enough blue chippers that we’re set for many moons

Your hoping those prospects are as good as the current lineup.odt teams that completely tear it down do not turn into a dynasty.

 

[Simplicity]

I'd trade Karlsson for the right pieces. He makes too many mistakes defensively. Tonight is as close to a playoff game feel like we will see this year and 2 weak plays by Karlsson led to turnovers and ultimately goals. I love Karlsson offensively but defensively he's too high risk/high reward. At some point you have to make a decision and ask yourself if he's ever going to change? Last year he looked finally like a balanced Dman, but this year even with his ankle struggles, he is making terrible defensive mistakes at times.

What are you trading him for? It will neve be better than Karlsson.