Pre-Game Talk: SENS in Detroit, Wed, Jan 3, 7:30 pm on SportsNet

[Viletho]

Btw lol at Boucher's comment
" i liked the pushback"

I sure hope they had a pushback, you need to score at least 1 goal to win a game..

I know he doesn't want to throw his player under the bus, but i cannot be positive about that pushback. At was 1-0, not 2-0. A 2-0 pushback and rally into the game is impressive. That one wasn't to me.

 

[HSF]

Fans actively talking of trading EK after we are 2 weeks out from EK saying he loves Ottawa, wants to stay and wants to win here is treasoneous fan talk.

Fans can throw jerseys, hate the owner, not buy tickets, but to talk of trading EK 30 games after recovering from new ankle surgery after he was the best player in the NHL makes me hang my head in shame of being a Sens fan.

I was at the Boston game and saw the jersey throw and I dthink don't care. But fans actively calling EK lazy, EK selfish, EK unprepared - it makes you wonder what they like about the Ottawa Senators, if you can't like EK, why are out a fan of Ottawa?

Some fans are so trash in this city. If you grind away along the boards you are considered a great player here. Guys like Mike Fisher got so much praise for doing so little on the scoresheet. Skilled guys get thrown under the bus here the min something goes wrong. I saw it with Alfie, Spezza, Redden, Chara and now Karlsson. There is very little appreciation for highly skilled guys in the city the min things start going bad.

Sometimes i envy fans like the mtl canadiens sure they also throw certain players under the bus but the amount of respect they had for highly skilled guys like Subban and Kovalev and them not wanting to trade them cause they know they have a role on their that is next to impossible to replace is something I wish more ppl in the Sens army understood. Karlsson should be at a level above Kovalev and Subban for what he has done for the ottawa senators but here we are discussing his trade instead of making him feel like he should be a senators for life. But hey we should do anything we can to keep Mark Stone

 

[PeterSidorkiewicz]

In a game that ended 2 to 1, and one d man was a plus one, and the other was a minus 2 ........ I think it is relevant ............ just watch the replay(s), if you think it does not matter.

What I see in Ceci, is a D man that has played in the "Shutdown pairing" role, since he arrived full time in the NHL .......... his role is not to drive the offense, run the PP because that's Karlsson's role.

I also see that Ceci is almost always out, on the ice, when the opponents top offensive forwards are on the ice........... and so far this season he is a minus 7, vs Karlsson who is now a minus 22 on the season.

I see that Ceci plays the second most ave. per game TOI this season and last season, only behind Karlsson....... who gets way more TOI on the PP than Ceci does.


All I'm saying, if you're looking to Ceci to score points, you're not going to see it, that is not his role, and he plays a lot of minutes, and if "fans" think trading him is going to benefit the team ......... I would ask them who is going to take his minutes, and will he, or they, do any better in the role than he does.

Did I mention he's also a RH shot, that is another reason to keep him in Ottawa, as they are rare in the league at this time.

Ceci has some good games, but I don't see much consistency from him at all, which after 300 NHL games leads me to believe he might be a #4 Dman when he is playing his best. And I also think he hasn't been all that good in the "shutdown" role he is supposedly playing.

You don't think Ceci is replaceable with his TOI? I think he is definitely replaceable, and if we want to win more games, we need to figure out a different D player to be playing 20 minutes TOI a game. He is expendable in my eyes.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

Sometimes i envy fans like the mtl canadiens sure they also throw certain players under the bus but the amount of respect they had for highly skilled guys like Subban and Kovalev and them not wanting to trade them cause they know they have a role on their that is next to impossible to replace is something I wish more ppl in the Sens army understood. Karlsson should be at a level above Kovalev and Subban for what he has done for the ottawa senators but here we are discussing his trade instead of making him feel like he should be a senators for life. But hey we should do anything we can to keep Mark Stone

LOL what?

Montreal fans are worse. You need to venture over to their boards sometimes. Ottawa fans are pretty tame....

Also, calling some of your own fanbase trash kind of defeats the purpose of your post.

 

[HSF]

LOL what?

Montreal fans are worse. You need to venture over to their boards sometimes. Ottawa fans are pretty tame....

Also, calling some of your own fanbase trash kind of defeats the purpose of your post.

Mtl fans respect talent ...Subban is loved in that city and still is

hell they even had a rally to try and keep Kovalev

calling out some of the fanbase doens't defeat my purpose

 

[Viletho]

Some fans are so trash in this city. If you grind away along the boards you are considered a great player here. Guys like Mike Fisher got so much praise for doing so little on the scoresheet. Skilled guys get thrown under the bus here the min something goes wrong. I saw it with Alfie, Spezza, Redden, Chara and now Karlsson. There is very little appreciation for highly skilled guys in the city the min things start going bad.

Sometimes i envy fans like the mtl canadiens sure they also throw certain players under the bus but the amount of respect they had for highly skilled guys like Subban and Kovalev and them not wanting to trade them cause they know they have a role on their that is next to impossible to replace is something I wish more ppl in the Sens army understood. Karlsson should be at a level above Kovalev and Subban for what he has done for the ottawa senators but here we are discussing his trade instead of making him feel like he should be a senators for life. But hey we should do anything we can to keep Mark Stone

I live near montreal and let me tell you that Subban and Kovalev had there fair share of critics on a consistent basis. Trade talk, etc. Of course, when Subban trade happened, a lot of people were also upset. But they were not the one talkin about trading Subban in the first place.

Like they want Galchenyuk badly trade for years, they want Pacioretty badly trade since he got the C even if he has 30+ goal every year, except this year.

Montreal are degrading their star player A LOT, believe me.

A lot of people also want Price to be trade.

 

[Viletho]

Edit.

 

[HSF]

I live near montreal and let me tell you that Subban and Kovalev had there fair share of critics on a consistent basis. Trade talk, etc

Like they want Galchenyuk badly trade for years, they want Pacioretty badly trade since he got the C even if he has 30+ goal every year, except this year.

Montreal are degrading their star player A LOT, believe me.

A lot of people also want Price to be trade.

I think the Galenchyuk (he just isn't very good there) and Patches trade talk is fair though ( he was criticized even before the C ). The level of play Karlsson has shown in this city and to have ppl actively looking to trade him after a bad half season of coming off an incredivble playoff run is just pathetic imo

I agree with you on Price though

 

[Viletho]

I think the Galenchyuk (he just isn't very good there) and Patches trade talk is fair though. The level of play Karlsson has shown in this city and to have ppl actively looking to trade him after a bad half season of coming off an incredivble playoff run is just pathetic imo

I don't disagree that trading Karlsson is silly unless he want out.
It was simple exemple of talented player that are talk a lot about being trade. Like i said, Patches being trade talk started several years ago when the missed the playoff and Galchenyuk started when they were not sire if C pr wing.

Mtl and Ott are kinda the same, IMO.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Go through the Ceci thread, more than enough reasons for you there. Also, check Garrioch's piece from yesterday, not too many GMs calling for Ceci anymore.

Did not expect you could explain why you think Ceci is "Garbage"...... and I was right.

 

[BatherSeason]

Did not expect you could explain why you think Ceci is "Garbage"...... and I was right.

Many of us are still waiting for you to read through the Ceci thread so we don't have to repeat ourselves....did not expect you to, and I was right.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

How about explaining why he's good?

Only arguments I've seen in his favor is that he is young, defenceman take longer to develop and he is deployed like a top 4 defender.

The Senators management decided he was more valuable to the Senators than Methot, and that's why they protected him in the Draft.

The Coaching staff thinks he fills the shutdown (pairing) role, and that's why he had the second most TOI last season (Mehtot was fourth) and is second in TOI so far this season.


Would the management team protect a "garbage" player, in the draft?
Would the Coaching staff play a "garbage" d man the second most TOI for two seasons running?

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

No, I mean the poor defensive plays part. Everything in that post read like someone was describing Spezza.

I know Redden had it rough here, and Alfie before the 2007 playoffs, but Hossa? I don’t remember him having too many critics. He shouldn’t have either. Great two way player that worked his ass off.

A lot of people called him soft. Not the kind of guy you win with. That sort of stuff.

Needed a good ol Canadian boy in there, not one of those soft europeans.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Many of us are still waiting for you to read through the Ceci thread so we don't have to repeat ourselves....did not expect you to, and I was right.

Yeah, right, read a number of anti Ceci "fans" spew their opinions on why they think he's garbage, is not my idea of proving your statement has any merit.

Can't you find some analytical, fancy stats, underlying number type of website, that can support your assertions?


I'll wait.

 

[Viletho]

The Senators management decided he was more valuable to the Senators than Methot, and that's why they protected him in the Draft.

The Coaching staff thinks he fills the shutdown (pairing) role, and that's why he had the second most TOI last season (Mehtot was fourth) and is second in TOI so far this season.

Would the management team protect a "garbage" player, in the draft?
Would the Coaching staff play a "garbage" d man the second most TOI for two seasons running?

I normally defend Ceci, but maybe tell us what YOU love about him and what you dislike instead of using what management or coaching think of him.

For exemple : Ceci skate the puck out well.
Ceci isn't very good when it come to stretch pass, he need to do little pass to be effective.
He is more physical along the board then last year, but let be fair last year he was very bad at it.
He is not good at taking decision when he shot from the blue line, but seems to be effective from the slot when he pinch, which he has done well recently

These exemple aren't coming from what management think of him, it come from what I see.

Btw, Chezz can do it too.

 

[inthewings]

Fans actively talking of trading EK after we are 2 weeks out from EK saying he loves Ottawa, wants to stay and wants to win here is treasoneous fan talk.

Fans can throw jerseys, hate the owner, not buy tickets, but to talk of trading EK 30 games after recovering from new ankle surgery after he was the best player in the NHL makes me hang my head in shame of being a Sens fan.

I was at the Boston game and saw the jersey throw and I dthink don't care. But fans actively calling EK lazy, EK selfish, EK unprepared - it makes you wonder what they like about the Ottawa Senators, if you can't like EK, why are out a fan of Ottawa?

That's fair. There are certainly stupid, irrational reasons for wanting to see Karlsson traded. I also think that there are increasingly (until he signs an extension anyway) pragmatic and rational reasons for starting to talk about maybe moving him.

 

[Benjamin]

Ceci has some good games, but I don't see much consistency from him at all, which after 300 NHL games leads me to believe he might be a #4 Dman when he is playing his best. And I also think he hasn't been all that good in the "shutdown" role he is supposedly playing.

You don't think Ceci is replaceable with his TOI? I think he is definitely replaceable, and if we want to win more games, we need to figure out a different D player to be playing 20 minutes TOI a game. He is expendable in my eyes.

The worst part is Ceci's agents is going to point to his minutes and role to cling hard to massive pay day. Ceci HAS to go by the deadline or draft. Whoever signs him is getting a seriously awful contract.

I think Ceci would be fantastic at anchoring the bottom pairing and playing a lot of PK minutes but he's going to get paid as a #3 dman. Just bad money efficiency.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

The Senators management decided he was more valuable to the Senators than Methot, and that's why they protected him in the Draft.

The Coaching staff thinks he fills the shutdown (pairing) role, and that's why he had the second most TOI last season (Mehtot was fourth) and is second in TOI so far this season.


Would the management team protect a "garbage" player, in the draft?
Would the Coaching staff play a "garbage" d man the second most TOI for two seasons running?

I don't think most fans would agree with managements take on a lot of things. This is the same management group that thought Oduya could replace Methot and that he is a top pairing defender. That Burrows was worth a second AND a contract extension with clauses. That Dumont was worth the pickup. That it was smart to resign Anderson at his age. That hiring inexperienced coaches would get this team stability behind the benches. This is the same management that you tend to agree with.

 

[BondraTime]

Yeah, right, read a number of anti Ceci "fans" spew their opinions on why they think he's garbage, is not my idea of proving your statement has any merit.

Can't you find some analytical, fancy stats, underlying number type of website, that can support your assertions?


I'll wait.

Doesn't Ceci have among the worst advanced metrics in the NHL? @Micklebot

 

[Tuna99]

That's fair. There are certainly stupid, irrational reasons for wanting to see Karlsson traded. I also think that there are increasingly (until he signs an extension anyway) pragmatic and rational reasons for starting to talk about maybe moving him.

Pragmatism with this owner for sure, but to critique his effort and heart to me is the lowest Sens national has ever gone.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I had no idea, but it's not like being in a wheel chair has limited your criticism of Karlsson or any portion of the team.

Attack posts not posters

 

[Caeldan]

Trade Karlsson talk.

Our fanbase deserves Melnyck and his $20 parking.

Too bad we have Melnyk and $30 parking instead.

 

[Langdon Alger]

A lot of people called him soft. Not the kind of guy you win with. That sort of stuff.

Needed a good ol Canadian boy in there, not one of those soft europeans.

He certainly didn’t have it as rough as Redden or Spezza.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

I don't think most fans would agree with managements take on a lot of things. This is the same management group that thought Oduya could replace Methot and that he is a top pairing defender. That Burrows was worth a second AND a contract extension with clauses. That Dumont was worth the pickup. That it was smart to resign Anderson at his age. That hiring inexperienced coaches would get this team stability behind the benches. This is the same management that you tend to agree with.

When did anyone, from Managment, say that "Oduya was brought in to replace Methot" or that he was a top pairing defender" ???

I'd like to read that statement if it's out there, on the interwebs somewhere. I suspect this is just some "fans" adding 2 plus 2 and getting 7.

What was it that Dorion gave up to pick up Dumont, that you think was worth so much?

The Previous two coaches were "inexperienced", and the current Coach had previous NHL Head Coaching experience ..................... so I'm sure what you're try to say with that ........... perhaps you want them to hire another Cory Clouston ?

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Too bad we have Melnyk and $30 parking instead.

It was bumped up to $30 during the playoffs, are you saying it still is $30?