Sens Arena in Lebreton Flats

[pepty]

That would definitely be better than nothing.

I am skeptical than money would be used for something more, but you never know.

I just wish Ottawa could have some distinctive things that other capital cities have.

Oh like the Parliament Buildings, the War Museum, NAC the NAG etc etc.

 

[jason2020]

savoysuit

We do have many things other capitals do but the main difference is places like London/Paris will end funding or close buildings if there not doing well while in Ottawa we give them bail outs.

 

[PatrickEaves]

That would definitely be better than nothing.

I am skeptical than money would be used for something more, but you never know.

I just wish Ottawa could have some distinctive things that other capital cities have.

City Ages:
Ottawa - 160 years
Paris - 1028-1957 years
London - 1972 years
Beijing - >3000 years
Rome - 1262 years

That's fine, just wait a thousand years, Ottawa will have distinctive cultural locations to visit then.

 

[savoysuit]

Oh like the Parliament Buildings, the War Museum, NAC the NAG etc etc.

Those are the bare minimum requirements for a capital city. All those things you listed... are national institutions.

 

[savoysuit]

City Ages:
Ottawa - 160 years
Paris - 1028-1957 years
London - 1972 years
Beijing - >3000 years
Rome - 1262 years

That's fine, just wait a thousand years, Ottawa will have distinctive cultural locations to visit then.

I'm not talking about London or Paris. You could play this game all day long. Shall we start listing American cities that are more along the timeframe of Ottawa and have more? (or younger euro countries... how about helsinki in Finland? Not that old... look at what it has)

On the other hand if you'd like to list european cities... by all means. You know that a city like Berlin was bombed flat in WW2 and returned re-vitalized (most specifically after the wall came down)... they have an arena and such... but they continue to build new institutions of all sorts. It's a world hub, bringing more and more tourists every year, which is great for the economy. They aren't there to see the new arena. It's about priorities.

 

[PatrickEaves]

I'm not talking about London or Paris. You could play this game all day long. Shall we start listing American cities that are more along the timeframe of Ottawa and have more? (or younger euro countries... how about helsinki in Finland? Not that old... look at what it has)

On the other hand if you'd like to list european cities... by all means. You know that a city like Berlin was bombed flat in WW2 and returned re-vitalized (most specifically after the wall came down)... they have an arena and such... but they continue to build new institutions of all sorts. It's a world hub, bringing more and more tourists every year, which is great for the economy. They aren't there to see the new arena. It's about priorities.

You said capital cities, so I started listing capital cities. But hey, if you wanted to talk about cities in general, go right ahead. Feel free to start listing cities you want to compare to. Before you say New York and Los Angeles though, remember to compare their population to Ottawa and see if it's reasonable though.

(Btw, with your Helsinki example, it was founded in 1550, but I'll post about it later when I have a bit more time to actually take a look in depth)

 

[jason2020]

I'm not talking about London or Paris. You could play this game all day long. Shall we start listing American cities that are more along the timeframe of Ottawa and have more? (or younger euro countries... how about helsinki in Finland? Not that old... look at what it has)

On the other hand if you'd like to list european cities... by all means. You know that a city like Berlin was bombed flat in WW2 and returned re-vitalized (most specifically after the wall came down)... they have an arena and such... but they continue to build new institutions of all sorts. It's a world hub, bringing more and more tourists every year, which is great for the economy. They aren't there to see the new arena. It's about priorities.

I think part of the issue is people don't know what Ottawa has and what there building now and in the near future if you would look at what is going on I think you would back track on many of your remarks.

 

[PatrickEaves]

You said capital cities, so I started listing capital cities. But hey, if you wanted to talk about cities in general, go right ahead. Feel free to start listing cities you want to compare to. Before you say New York and Los Angeles though, remember to compare their population to Ottawa and see if it's reasonable though.

(Btw, with your Helsinki example, it was founded in 1550, but I'll post about it later when I have a bit more time to actually take a look in depth)

Okay, I went and took a look at the Helsinki tourism site and then compared it to the Ottawa tourism site. I don't exactly see much of a difference, other than the fact that Helsinki has a zoo (and a Castle - but that was built for the purpose of defense, which Ottawa never had reason to). Of course, Helsinki is also the largest city in Finland, and Ottawa isn't anywhere close. Do you know where the two largest zoos are in Canada? Toronto and Calgary, both which are larger cities than Ottawa.

So unless I'm missing something, I don't see how Ottawa lacks distinctive cultural locations compared to similar cities around the world.

(This is assuming Cathedrals and other religious buildings are not the responsibility of the city to build, because quite frankly, they aren't)

 

[Ttracer*]

Helsinki markets itself as a transit city, that says it all. Besides anyone that visits Finland in winter will see 5 hours of sunlight tops.

Ottawa sees MUCH more tourists per year, best museums in the world, festivals all summer long. We may not have 700 year old churches with gargoyles out front, we could really use it though architecture in Ottawa is definitely lacking, every apartment building and shop is the cheapest concrete box possible.. no creativity

 

[BonkTastic]

we could really use it though architecture in Ottawa is definitely lacking, every apartment building and shop is the cheapest concrete box possible.. no creativity

Hey now, that's uncalled for... We only copy the very best of Soviet-era architectural design.

 

[pepty]

Helsinki markets itself as a transit city, that says it all. Besides anyone that visits Finland in winter will see 5 hours of sunlight tops.

Ottawa sees MUCH more tourists per year, best museums in the world, festivals all summer long. We may not have 700 year old churches with gargoyles out front, we could really use it though architecture in Ottawa is definitely lacking, every apartment building and shop is the cheapest concrete box possible.. no creativity

I traveled though Helsinki briefly and took the ferry from there to Stockholm,.. Beautiful ferry ride through the islands and Stockholm is a gorgeous city.

I didn't see much of Helsinki but the harbour and market next to the harbour. It seems like a nice old city, a little dark though. These old European cities have a lot of character that it is hard for North American cities to match.

But Ottawa is one of the more attractive mid range North American cities. Many cities especially in the US moved a lot of their sports and entertainment and population to the suburbs -hollowed out cities, doughnut cities.

Of course there are some like Boston that are great cities with vibrant downtown . Chicago keeps their downtown lively by putting both offices and apartments and condos together in their downtown high rises. Oh and both have downtown sports venues..

This is why it is important for Ottawa to have sports venues near downtown like Lansdowne and Lebreton,so we dont have just office buildings-and museums-downtown.

Some office buildings are plain and ugly because they are government buildings and they want to demonstrate that they are not wasting money but building as cheaply as they can.

 

[member 137785]

For those talking about things like this "not being fun"... fun is subjective. Watching grown men chase a piece of rubber around the ice isn't fun all the time either. Think about what those cities in the world that are considered "fun" have... and then think about how Ottawa compares in those areas.

List those things that you think Ottawa lacks. You're making the assertion, you should really back it up.

Ottawa has world class art/culture/buildings. It just needs a downtown stadium to make it jump.

 

[DrEasy]

List those things that you think Ottawa lacks. You're making the assertion, you should really back it up.

How about some direct flights to those fun capital cities to start with?

 

[BonkTastic]

I cant help but feel jealous and annoyed to hear you guys "1st world problems" your way through the list of gripes you have with Ottawa, and meanwhile I'm stuck in this absolute dick-hole of a capital in Jakarta.

 

[savoysuit]

I don't exactly see much of a difference, other than the fact that Helsinki has a zoo (and a Castle - but that was built for the purpose of defense, which Ottawa never had reason to). Of course, Helsinki is also the largest city in Finland, and Ottawa isn't anywhere close. Do you know where the two largest zoos are in Canada? Toronto and Calgary, both which are larger cities than Ottawa.

Well, Helsinki has 2 full symphony orchestras and 2 full scale concert halls. 5 large art museums (with a possible 6th on the way), numerous professional theatres, (the zoo you mentioned), a city museum that isn't just a small house (like the bytown), world class botanical gardens, museum of natural history (run by city and university), design museum, military museum, money museum, sport museum, (you get the point, there's lots of museums, I don't need to list them all) numerous professional world-renowned galleries, large amusement park, etc etc...(and even a subway system) ... It also has 300 000 less people than Ottawa.

Interestingly it doesn't come at the cost of sports facilities, as there are numerous small arena's, a full-size hockey arena, a full size olympic stadium, 400m tracks around the city for athletics, etc...

Ottawa could have so much more if taxpayer money was better spent, and the nation's natural resources weren't squandered. Canada should be one of the richest countries in the world when you consider its resources. Just where does all that money go... hmmm...

Ottawa sees MUCH more tourists per year, best museums in the world, festivals all summer long. We may not have 700 year old churches with gargoyles out front, we could really use it though architecture in Ottawa is definitely lacking, every apartment building and shop is the cheapest concrete box possible.. no creativity

small point, but Ottawa doesn't see a significantly higher percentage of foreign tourists. It sees more tourists from within it's own country.

Architecture in Ottawa could be better if they didn't use every bit of great downtown real estate by building yet another expensive condo.... doesn't allow for so much creativity.

Ottawa has world class art/culture/buildings. It just needs a downtown stadium to make it jump.

name the world class culture that ottawa has outside of the national gallery and nac?

I cant help but feel jealous and annoyed to hear you guys "1st world problems" your way through the list of gripes you have with Ottawa, and meanwhile I'm stuck in this absolute dick-hole of a capital in Jakarta.

agreed 100% . Even though I have issues with how Ottawa spends its money, it's all silliness compared to real problems.


(btw, I have nothing against a big arena being downtown or close to downtown... however it should have been there in the first place. Building it in the far reaches of Kanata was an idiotic idea)

 

[jason2020]

savoysuit

If you look at places such as London and Paris what is the biggest thing in there downtown core its huge building 60-100 floors but the key is there great to look at while here people have a fit when there is a 20 floor building downtown.

 

[BonkTastic]

If you look at places such as London and Paris what is the biggest thing in there downtown core its huge building 60-100 floors

Clearly you have never seen the Paris skyline if you think this.

(for the record, that single tall building you see in the photo is called the Tour Montparnasse, at 59 floors it easily dwarfs every other building in Paris, who hated that building so much they set a building height limit for all future buildings at 121 feet - for reference, Tour Montparnasse stands at 689 feet tall)

 

[jason2020]

There is a new office complex under construction in Paris called Hermitage Plaza 6 total buildings the tallest being 86 floors.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Well, Helsinki has 2 full symphony orchestras and 2 full scale concert halls. 5 large art museums (with a possible 6th on the way), numerous professional theatres, (the zoo you mentioned), a city museum that isn't just a small house (like the bytown), world class botanical gardens, museum of natural history (run by city and university), design museum, military museum, money museum, sport museum, (you get the point, there's lots of museums, I don't need to list them all) numerous professional world-renowned galleries, large amusement park, etc etc...(and even a subway system) ... It also has 300 000 less people than Ottawa.

Interestingly it doesn't come at the cost of sports facilities, as there are numerous small arena's, a full-size hockey arena, a full size olympic stadium, 400m tracks around the city for athletics, etc...

Ottawa could have so much more if taxpayer money was better spent, and the nation's natural resources weren't squandered. Canada should be one of the richest countries in the world when you consider its resources. Just where does all that money go... hmmm...




small point, but Ottawa doesn't see a significantly higher percentage of foreign tourists. It sees more tourists from within it's own country.

Architecture in Ottawa could be better if they didn't use every bit of great downtown real estate by building yet another expensive condo.... doesn't allow for so much creativity.





name the world class culture that ottawa has outside of the national gallery and nac?




agreed 100% . Even though I have issues with how Ottawa spends its money, it's all silliness compared to real problems.


(btw, I have nothing against a big arena being downtown or close to downtown... however it should have been there in the first place. Building it in the far reaches of Kanata was an idiotic idea)

Do you have any idea what the government in Finland takes from people in taxes compared to Canada?

You want all that stuff in Ottawa, be prepared to see your income tax rate increase by at least 50%.

 

[BonkTastic]

There is a new office complex under construction in Paris called Hermitage Plaza 6 total buildings the tallest being 86 floors.

Yeah, it's a crazy complex. I think it's a 3 billion Euro price tag attached? It's technically outside of Paris though - the business district in the Metro Paris area is in the city of Courbevoie, and it's so far from the Paris tourist center that it might as well be it's own city. Which it is. Literally.

Regardless, I think my point was that Paris is historically known for having a very low skyline. It's marketed on NOT having tall buildings. I was just refuting your point earlier about their downtown cores being 60-100 story buildings.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Technically, isn't Paris on top of swampland? I doubt they could have skyscrapers even if they wanted them.

 

[BonkTastic]

Do you have any idea what the government in Finland takes from people in taxes compared to Canada?

You want all that stuff in Ottawa, be prepared to see your income tax rate increase by at least 50%.

For instance:

- Finland federal tax is between 21.5% and 30% if you are making a living wage (Annual salary between 37,000 euros-68,000 euros is 21.5%, anything over 68k euros is taxed at 30%)
- Helsinki Municipal Tax: 18.5%
- Helsinki sales tax (VAT Tax) is 24%, compared to a flat 13% in Ontario.

Anyone earning over 68k euros/year in Helsinki is paying 48.5%/year in income tax, plus almost 25% in sales tax.

 

[BonkTastic]

Technically, isn't Paris on top of swampland?

Parts of it are, yeah. Or at least they were two thousand years ago. I have no idea what the consistency or makeup of that land would be like after almost two millenia of settlements have existed on top of it, though.

Parisians prefer to call it "marsh land" though.

 

[FuriousSenator]

For instance:

- Finland federal tax is between 21.5% and 30% if you are making a living wage (Annual salary between 37,000 euros-68,000 euros is 21.5%, anything over 68k euros is taxed at 30%)
- Helsinki Municipal Tax: 18.5%
- Helsinki sales tax (VAT Tax) is 24%, compared to a flat 13% in Ontario.

Anyone earning over 68k euros/year in Helsinki is paying 48.5%/year in income tax, plus almost 25% in sales tax.

Am I the only one who would happily pay this for all the amenities the guy listed above?

Sure you wouldn't be able to afford that ginormous mcmansion in Stittsville, but the quality of life in Helsinki for all citizens is certainly better than in Ottawa. Excellent transit, great and beautiful institutions, societal benefits etc...

I gotta say I agree with a lot of points made; Ottawa suffers from a hideous downtown core (outside Parliament hill) --> big concrete boxes only the USSR could be proud of, lack of quality nightlife and the like.

I do agree we need the arena downtown though, I just think it should be arena + more impressive cultural stuff, like a new fancy concert hall or something architecturally marvelous.

 

[The Lewler]

Am I the only one who would happily pay this for all the amenities the guy listed above?

Sure you wouldn't be able to afford that ginormous mcmansion in Stittsville, but the quality of life in Helsinki for all citizens is certainly better than in Ottawa. Excellent transit, great and beautiful institutions, societal benefits etc...

I gotta say I agree with a lot of points made; Ottawa suffers from a hideous downtown core (outside Parliament hill) --> big concrete boxes only the USSR could be proud of, lack of quality nightlife and the like.

I do agree we need the arena downtown though, I just think it should be arena + more impressive cultural stuff, like a new fancy concert hall or something architecturally marvelous.

I'd disagree with you, I like having control over as much of my income/money as possible.

I do not like the government re-distributing it for whatever they deem as a priority for "the greater good".

Cultural/individual difference.

Also interesting assertion that if you don't want the government to control up to 60-70% of your income, you must want to live in a 'McMansion' in a suburb, insinuating largesse and conspicuous consumption.