And how did their attendance compare to teams like Chicago, LA, San Jose and Washington in that time period.
Categorically false. Their attendance was much better than the Alberta teams and beat Vancouver several times despite Vancouver being twice the size of Ottawa.
Attendance in the last full season at the Civic Centre was 9879 and in the first full season at The Palladium it was 15377. That's a lot more than a few thousand and you should probably work on your math skills. Attendance would have been much better but the Sens were coming off their fourth straight season of being the worst team in the league with Randy "Firestone's friend" Sexton as the GM and franchise saviour Alexandre Daigle turning into a flop.
Who cares how those teams did? I'm talking about Ottawa Senators attendance since they moved to Kanata, I'm not talking about those four other teams.
Not false. They were much worse than Montreal and Toronto, which is a given, and despite Ottawa being a playoff team.
They beat Vancouver three times, by 1750 in 98-99, by 2000 in 99-00, and by 800 in 00-01. All three years Ottawa was a playoff team (and a good one at that), and Vancouver was one of the worst in the league. Over the past 20 years, Vancouver has had categorically better attendance than Ottawa. That's 3 of the 5 other teams that are undebatable.
Ottawa beats Calgary in 98-99, 99-00, 00-01, 01-02, 02-03, and 03-04. Outside of those years, Ottawa and Calgary have similar attendance, or Calgary is better. Again, like Vancouver, Calgary was an awful year every year except 03-04, while Ottawa was a playoff team every season. Calgary, the awful team, beat them in 96-97 and had slightly more in 97-98 despite Ottawa's better success in a nicer stadium. On the aggregate, Calgary has done better than Ottawa. So that's worse than 4 of the 5 other teams.
With Edmonton, Ottawa is on paper better but their arena fitted ~16,800. Capacity wise,
Edmonton beats Ottawa from 1996 till 1999. They were behind Ottawa in 95-96, and again in 99-00 and 00-01. They've been at 98-100% capacity ever since the 01-02 season. I've hyperlinked historical attendance for Ottawa in my last most, and all three in dispute Canadian teams in this. You are categorically wrong. Calgary you have the best argument for, but at best you can say they've had similar attendance to Calgary. Vancouver is indisputably better, and by capacity percentage, Edmonton is as well.
Unlike some others who discuss Ottawa's attendance, I'm not blaming it on the market or the team. So that's not there to attack. But my numbers are right, and you cannot twist them. Ottawa has most definitely had the poorest Canadian attendance over the last 20-25 years. If you continue to dispute this, you might be the one who needs to work on their math skills.
The definition of "few" when it's used to describe numbers is generally 3-5. Note that is within the increase of which I've described in the move from Ottawa Civic to Kanata. But semantics bore me. So I'll focus on facts. Ottawa's first full season in Kanata was 1996-97 season. They made the playoffs that season. Yes they were the worst team the season before, but they were still within the honeymoon period for a new arena. In their half season in their new arena, attendance is not great either. After selling out their first game in Kanata, they drop down to 14,000 the next, and can't sell out the next two games against the Penguins or Red Wings, both which had big name stars on them. They only sold out 7 games (I'll count a New Jersey game where they missed a sellout by a hundred or so tickets). With the exception of the first game in Kanata against Montreal which was on a Wednesday, every game except their final home game of the season (a Thursday) was on Friday or Saturday. Attendance for weekday games ranged from good/solid to bad. That's over the course of 25 home games. Even for a last place team, that is not good for a new venue. The fact they sold out several marquee Fri/Sat games implies location was an issue. Something that remains today; people don't want to go see a bad/mediocre team during the week with that commute.
Its less of a defense of the location than more trying to help people understand what the dynamics are that have caused this large drop in attendance. Yes it is better downtown, but substantially?
Ultimately what has changed with the Sens since their big run on attendance? Nothing. And by nothing I mean the location and peoples salaries.
I know a lot of people who have dropped their seasons ticket and have stopped going to single games, or severely cut down and everyone says price. Its not Pheonix, location, or team performance issue. Checked a pay stub, found one from 09 and compared it to today. 4.3% gain, and that includes a .75% gain for a payout that I will miss and have to account for. So 3.5% over 8 years. Eventually the money crunch will hit, it has to. I know Ottawa tickets are pretty cheap compared to Canadian markets, but it still does not change the fact that when inflation is far outpacing pay raises and discretionary budgets are taking a huge hit, these big ticket items that are increasing well above inflation are the first to go.
Now there is finally a deal (back payed to 4 years ago) and employees will see a 4-5% increase very soon, and I think that will help, but government employees are in the same boat, the current deal expires in a few months, and if it takes another 4 years to negotiate a deal, that 4 more years without raises.
This is not as "woe is me" employee rant, I think we are payed well for what we do, but on the technical side people I know in private industry generally make 30K a year more than me (but hey the pension is worth it) and are making good raises. If the rest of the country is in that boat, then affording games on a year by year basis is not an issue. If their raises were more in line with government employees over the last decade, other smaller market teams would feel the pinch too.
And if I am right (and have ample evidence to suggest I am at least partly right), then a move downtown with a corresponding 25% increase in prices (that number has been mentioned), then also expecting a 30% increase in current attendance just seems unrealistic. I think the smaller rink is the way to go downtown.
It doesn't have to be substantially, the attendance isn't that low anyways. It's just "embarrassing" because Ottawa is Canadian. To me, the team hasn't done a good job at marketing itself in the last 4-5 years. Melnyk is cheap and may or may not have any money, so I'd suspect their marketing budget has gone way done. Karlsson is a better player than Spezza or Alfredsson were, but not as a big a "star" as they were.
Price is a convenient reason, but it's a lot easier to cite when the arena is farther away. The perks many government employees get are substantial (pension, benefits, job security). Honestly I don't think the market is that different in that regard from Montreal/Vancouver. Toronto it's mostly corporate suits but I'd suspect income is comparable among Senators attendees and Montreal/Vancouver attendees. I'm not surprised cost is the cited reason, but I'd wager (I doubt anyone has done research on this) that underlying issues make the price a more compelling disincentive.
They won't got ~19,000 downtown, that's for sure. Between 17,000 and 18,000 is likely. Prices will definitely go up 25% at least, maybe even 30-40%. Still, it shouldn't be hard to sell out. History teaches us the importance and allure of downtown arenas.
His slimy actions here prove what type of person he really is. I don't want to be anywhere near him quite frankly.
