Senators removing about 1500 seat from the Canadian Tire Centre

WadeRedden

Registered User
Feb 24, 2016
846
257
Just because they come and go doesn't mean it doesn't have an effect. You're far overestimating the casual fan (i.e. your average fan) and the amount of attention they pay to their team.

I don't think I am. I think even the most casual fans understand that players careers don't last forever. Magic Johnson was replaced by Kobe who in turn was replaced by Ball. This is the natural order of things and fans understand that. I'm not saying that fans don't sometimes yearn for the stars of yesteryear, but as long as an organization keeps fielding exciting talent, people will remain interested. If they don't, I'd suggest that they were never really fans of the sport in the first place and were more interested in the players as individuals.

Baseballs different because much fewer teams make the playoffs, but the comparison is that after one generation of players left, the team couldn't sustain the same fan support without being one of the best teams in the league anymore. Ottawa hasn't found the success they had in 2007 since (last year was such an outlier that the city didn't get on board).

One of the best teams in the league anymore? They didn't make the playoffs more 20+ consecutive years! Of course fan support is going to wane at that point. You honestly think that if some of those teams with talented players from the early aughts had made the playoffs that fans wouldn't have turned out because they longed for a return of the players from the early nineties? I don't buy that for a second. I think fans stayed away because the teams were garbage and they didn't want to pay good money to go to the ballpark and watch their team lose all the time.

Ottawa has actually had a decent amount of success in the last ten years, especially relative to other Canadian teams like Edmonton, Toronto and Calgary. They beat Montreal back in 2013 I think and we went on a huge run last year. Yeah, they've missed the playoffs a few times in that span but such is life in the new NHL designed to create parity. Teams can be in one year and out the next. Only the absolute cream of the crop like Chicago, Pittsburgh and Washington seem to make it every year. Most people seem to think of Tampa as the new challenger for king of the Eastern Conference but they've missed the playoffs 3 out of the last 6 years.
 

coladin

Registered User
Sep 18, 2009
11,813
4,500
Actually that’s totally false, those cheapest seats were the ones not sold, listen to Tom Anselmi interview where he specifically states that,
I second this, totally false. I stare at the cheapest seats in wonderment , how the hell is there not a fan to buy those seats? Oh yeah, this is Ottawa.
 

Bjorn Le

Hobocop
May 17, 2010
19,592
609
Martinaise, Revachol
I don't think I am. I think even the most casual fans understand that players careers don't last forever. Magic Johnson was replaced by Kobe who in turn was replaced by Ball. This is the natural order of things and fans understand that. I'm not saying that fans don't sometimes yearn for the stars of yesteryear, but as long as an organization keeps fielding exciting talent, people will remain interested. If they don't, I'd suggest that they were never really fans of the sport in the first place and were more interested in the players as individuals.



One of the best teams in the league anymore? They didn't make the playoffs more 20+ consecutive years! Of course fan support is going to wane at that point. You honestly think that if some of those teams with talented players from the early aughts had made the playoffs that fans wouldn't have turned out because they longed for a return of the players from the early nineties? I don't buy that for a second. I think fans stayed away because the teams were garbage and they didn't want to pay good money to go to the ballpark and watch their team lose all the time.

Ottawa has actually had a decent amount of success in the last ten years, especially relative to other Canadian teams like Edmonton, Toronto and Calgary. They beat Montreal back in 2013 I think and we went on a huge run last year. Yeah, they've missed the playoffs a few times in that span but such is life in the new NHL designed to create parity. Teams can be in one year and out the next. Only the absolute cream of the crop like Chicago, Pittsburgh and Washington seem to make it every year. Most people seem to think of Tampa as the new challenger for king of the Eastern Conference but they've missed the playoffs 3 out of the last 6 years.

Again, that's not the point. The point is casual fans lose interest when the players they use to follow are no longer there. Fan support isn't a linear continuum where support is sustained continuously. It has an ebb and flow and is affected by team performance, player arrivals, player departures, player performance, environmental factors, etc. Magic Johnson to Kobe is certainly not an example to be extrapolated, Kobe was literally the face of basketball for most of the early 2000s. You're acting as if most fans are like you. They're not. Most fans of a team don't watch every game, they can't name all their players, they don't actively follow the teams every move. If a team is "meh", and the stars you use to be able to name are gone/washed up, you might care less. That doesn't make them less of a fan, it makes them a casual fan.

Once more, you're not getting the Blue Jays example. The Jays attendance/support faltered long before they had missed the playoffs for 20 years. In fact, Jays support and fan awareness of the team was down significantly even five years from the team winning their second consecutive World Series. Jay's fan support began to fall almost immediately after their poor showing in the 1994 season, a year after they won their second straight title. In 2-3 seasons after the World Series, there was almost no big name star left from their late-1980s early 1990s heyday. Despite picking up huge stars like Roger Clemens, Carlos Delgado, Roy Halladay, in the late 1990s and early 2000s, the team couldn't bring back their luster. I believe this can be extrapolated on a smaller scale to the Senators. People didn't long for a return of the players from the 1990s, but they associated a team they wanted to watch with those guys, and unless the Jays were doing something exciting, they didn't have that attachment anymore.

No, the Senators support hasn't plummeted in the decade since they went to the Cup Finals, but it wasn't as high as the Jays were in 1993 either (the Jays were the biggest team in baseball, by far, in the early 1990s). Combined with the fact they've had really no shot at competing since the second lockout, and the decline and departure of their earlier stars, fans aren't as engaged with the team. Karlsson is a superstar, he's electric, and he's fun to watch. But what else about the team is exciting? For invested fans, lots probably. But for casual fans? I doubt many casual fans expected the team to go to the Conference Finals, and fewer still that they had any chance at a cup. The team doesn't have to consistently miss the playoffs to lose fan interest. Ottawa has been one of the most successful teams in Canada since the 2005 lockout, if making playoffs is your metric of success. But they haven't been legitimate contenders for a long time. They've been "meh". Not horrible, not a disaster. Just "meh". And in the National Hockey League, being average is worse than being terrible. Part of the problem is a marketing issue. Melnyk hasn't done much. But it's clear the same fervour that existed in the years subsequent to 2007 isn't there anymore.
 

david999

Registered User
Jan 21, 2011
1,197
331
Holy smokes, I went on the ticketmaster website to check on the availability of tickets for the game tonight against the LA Kings.
They can fire a cannonball in that arena and not hit anyone.
 

WadeRedden

Registered User
Feb 24, 2016
846
257
Again, that's not the point. The point is casual fans lose interest when the players they use to follow are no longer there. Fan support isn't a linear continuum where support is sustained continuously. It has an ebb and flow and is affected by team performance, player arrivals, player departures, player performance, environmental factors, etc. Magic Johnson to Kobe is certainly not an example to be extrapolated, Kobe was literally the face of basketball for most of the early 2000s. You're acting as if most fans are like you. They're not. Most fans of a team don't watch every game, they can't name all their players, they don't actively follow the teams every move. If a team is "meh", and the stars you use to be able to name are gone/washed up, you might care less. That doesn't make them less of a fan, it makes them a casual fan.

No, you seem to be misunderstanding my point. I never suggested that casual fans don't lose interest when the players they used to follow are no longer there. I just said that there's nothing teams can do about losing players--guys can't play forever. All teams can do is draft well and plan to replace their legends with young talent that's good enough retain the interest of the casual fan. The New York Yankees did this perfectly by replacing Jeter with Judge. Also, where did you get this idea that I think every fan knows all the ins-and-outs of their team? I never said that; you're making that up.

Also, what does Kobe's greatness have to do with that example not being appropriate? The point was that stars come and go but the franchise continues to exist.

Once more, you're not getting the Blue Jays example. The Jays attendance/support faltered long before they had missed the playoffs for 20 years. In fact, Jays support and fan awareness of the team was down significantly even five years from the team winning their second consecutive World Series. Jay's fan support began to fall almost immediately after their poor showing in the 1994 season, a year after they won their second straight title. In 2-3 seasons after the World Series, there was almost no big name star left from their late-1980s early 1990s heyday. Despite picking up huge stars like Roger Clemens, Carlos Delgado, Roy Halladay, in the late 1990s and early 2000s, the team couldn't bring back their luster. I believe this can be extrapolated on a smaller scale to the Senators. People didn't long for a return of the players from the 1990s, but they associated a team they wanted to watch with those guys, and unless the Jays were doing something exciting, they didn't have that attachment anymore.

Firstly, it's interesting that you don't even mention the lockout which had a significant impact on attendance league wide.

Secondly, no shit the fan support began to wane five years from the team winning their second consecutive world series...they hadn't made the playoffs for 5 straight years! You say, "Fan support isn't a linear continuum where support is sustained continuously. It has an ebb and flow and is affected by team performance" but conveniently forget to mention how team performance might have affected attendance in this example.

I'm well aware that the team brought in superstars like Clemens. My contention is that the attendance would have improved had the team been successful. However, they stunk.

RE: "but they associated a team they wanted to watch with those guys, and unless the Jays were doing something exciting, they didn't have that attachment anymore."

No kidding. That's exactly why I emphasized the importance of drafting and developing a good team. Good teams generate hype around the city; hype generates viewers; viewers form an attachment to players they watch and like...the cycle repeats and new bonds between player and fan are made.
 

LeafsNation75

Registered User
Jan 15, 2010
37,975
12,506
Toronto, Ontario
No kidding. That's exactly why I emphasized the importance of drafting and developing a good team. Good teams generate hype around the city; hype generates viewers; viewers form an attachment to players they watch and like...the cycle repeats and new bonds between player and fan are made.
Besides that I think as a Blue Jays fan and someone who lives in Toronto, when the Blue Jays re branded to their current logo for which was designed to look like what they had when they won in 1992 and 1993, that boosted merchandise sales and brought the nostalgia feeling back. Prior to their postseason runs when they reached the ALCS in 2015 and 2016, I saw a lot of people wearing the re-branded Blue Jays hats.

Now speaking of re-branding wasn't that something the Senators were talking about doing with their logo?
 
Last edited by a moderator:

wpgallday1960

Registered User
Sponsor
Jun 4, 2010
2,914
2,701
Sunny St. James
Besides that I think as a Blue Jays fan and someone who lives in Toronto, when the Blue Jays re branded to their current logo for which was designed to look like what they had when they won in 1992 and 1993, that boosted merchandise sales and brought the nostalgia feeling back. Prior to their postseason runs when they reached the ALCS in 2015 and 2016, I saw a lot of people wearing the re-branded Blue Jays hats.

Now speaking of re-bradding wasn't that something the Senators were talking about doing with their logo?
If the Senators are re-branding their logo, how about a picture of Mike Duffy holding a briefcase full of cash with some bills casually floating out.

Well on second thought, maybe not.
 

Korpse

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Feb 5, 2010
20,775
9,614
Besides that I think as a Blue Jays fan and someone who lives in Toronto, when the Blue Jays re branded to their current logo for which was designed to look like what they had when they won in 1992 and 1993, that boosted merchandise sales and brought the nostalgia feeling back. Prior to their postseason runs when they reached the ALCS in 2015 and 2016, I saw a lot of people wearing the re-branded Blue Jays hats.

Now speaking of re-branding wasn't that something the Senators were talking about doing with their logo?

Looks like there will be some re-branding in the near future. Seems everything around the franchise has the O on it these days. At centre ice you find it, it's all over the offical website, binders which management have, etc. I believe I saw some discussion in the summer that they weren't able to officially make the logo change due to timing but I never really looked in to it so can't confirm whether that was true of not. Definitely appears that they are moving towards the O though.
 

Spartachat

Registered User
Aug 2, 2016
2,154
2,136
Ottawa
Looks like there will be some re-branding in the near future. Seems everything around the franchise has the O on it these days. At centre ice you find it, it's all over the offical website, binders which management have, etc. I believe I saw some discussion in the summer that they weren't able to officially make the logo change due to timing but I never really looked in to it so can't confirm whether that was true of not. Definitely appears that they are moving towards the O though.

I can't until they get rid of the cartoon 3D logo.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MrCraigAnderson

Masked

(Super/star)
Apr 16, 2017
6,387
4,601
Parts unknown
It's hard to believe that such a relatively newer, attractive, perfectly good arena like CTC was placed where it is. Did they not think this would be an issue when they built it? It will be such a waste when the Sens move downtown.

It was the best location at the time and if it had never been built who knows if Ottawa would have ever had an NHL franchise.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Killion

Killion

Registered User
Feb 19, 2010
36,763
3,215
It was the best location at the time and if it had never been built who knows if Ottawa would have ever had an NHL franchise.

Bingo. Heady days back then. Giddy. Just get it done. Were mistakes made? Absolutely. And fine. Plenty of time to fix it.
 

coladin

Registered User
Sep 18, 2009
11,813
4,500
Bingo. Heady days back then. Giddy. Just get it done. Were mistakes made? Absolutely. And fine. Plenty of time to fix it.


20 years on, urban sprawl has made Kanata not quite west as it was as the city is growing in all directions. Still, as it is very easy to find why the CTC is where it is, without it there would have been no NHL team. The widening of the 417 has cut down my transit in half, to the point I leave 20 minutes later than I ever did. Coming from Riverside South, the new bridge, I arrive at my brother's place near Merivale/Clyde, at 645, and in our seats by 715.

Mistakes have been made and will continue to be made, as is the case in every franchise in sports. The Senators are no different than other franchises with their share of screw ups.

Concessions are expensive, parking is expensive, as is the case with other sports venues. This market seems more sensitive to this than others I suppose. But general fan apathy or malaise has rendered fans with very little tolerance for much of anything with this team. The reality is there is burn out of the fanbase, for a variety of reasons. You can lower prices and concessions, but there will be another focus point to be the next deterrent.

I don't see anyway that will change. I am not a big believer in marketing, and if many need parades, skywriting, or placards everywhere, then so be it....but I just don't see it. In Ottawa, everyone knows there is an NHL team called the Ottawa Senators. They are on local news everyday. Newspapers, many times front page especially after games. There is a special player on the team that captivated many last spring, and that did not translate into ticket sales, in a market that has by far the lowest prices in Canada.

It is very depressing for Senators fans to go to a 75% full arena, but that is what is going on. I imagine tonight should be better, but with the Habs tanking, their fanbase generally only shows up when they are good, so I don't envision a sellout tonight. WE will have to ride it out, hopefully, and wait for the next generation to come onboard and properly support this team.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Killion

ChurchOfAlfie

Registered User
Dec 4, 2016
890
1,295
It's hard to believe that such a relatively newer, attractive, perfectly good arena like CTC was placed where it is. Did they not think this would be an issue when they built it? It will be such a waste when the Sens move downtown.

The Senators were basically created as a real estate development with an NHL team thrown in for free, that's why.
 
  • Like
Reactions: End on a Hinote

LeHab

Registered User
Aug 31, 2005
15,957
6,259
It is very depressing for Senators fans to go to a 75% full arena, but that is what is going on. I imagine tonight should be better, but with the Habs tanking, their fanbase generally only shows up when they are good, so I don't envision a sellout tonight. WE will have to ride it out, hopefully, and wait for the next generation to come onboard and properly support this team.

Stub had tickets about an hour before puck drop for 10-15$ USD. Rather unusual for a game vs Habs. Flooding in the area probably does not help.
 

Fenway

HF Bookie and Bruins Historian
Sponsor
Sep 26, 2007
68,892
99,338
Cambridge, MA
upload_2017-10-30_22-16-15.png
 

Fenway

HF Bookie and Bruins Historian
Sponsor
Sep 26, 2007
68,892
99,338
Cambridge, MA
Ya I know we are generally excuse city, but I had multiple colleagues who couldn't even get into work yesterday because so many roads were flooded. I think attendance issues gets a pass yesterday.

Except most NHL teams use tickets distributed for attendance and a game with Montreal should not be counting on day of game sales.
 

branch

#GirlBoss #Vibes
Jan 12, 2008
8,850
7,240
It's hard to believe that such a relatively newer, attractive, perfectly good arena like CTC was placed where it is. Did they not think this would be an issue when they built it? It will be such a waste when the Sens move downtown.

It's impossible to build anything in this city on prime real estate without the NCC (National Capital Commission) torpedoing it. The only choice was to build it in buttf*** nowhere so the NCC couldn't interfere.
 

Fenway

HF Bookie and Bruins Historian
Sponsor
Sep 26, 2007
68,892
99,338
Cambridge, MA
So that's why Florida has 7% higher attendance than us?


I guess we just need to start giving out more freebies.


Ottawa is a fragile market that is locked into a very small territory unlike the other Canadian teams. It hits home when you cross the Ottawa River into what was Hull and now called Gatineau - the francophone fans have not embraced the Sénateurs d'Ottawa over Le Tricolore and that is a sizable portion of the Ottawa Metro.

It is compounded by general indifference in much of Eastern Ontario. Once you get south of Smiths Falls you are in Leafs Nation. Kingston tilts towards Toronto and Cornwall tilts towards Montreal. Throw in you have many federal workers in Ottawa from all over Canada and things change depending on what party is in power.

One of my best friends promoted concerts in Ottawa in the late 70's and 80's and what is happening today does not surprise him. He told me of the panic he felt in 1978 when he had 'The Eagles' booked at Rideau Carleton Raceway and sales were sluggish until the last couple of days and it was a success. He now works in LA but has talked to the Sens marketing people and honestly feels they do not understand the matrix of the market.
 

severian

Registered User
Aug 19, 2007
4,104
2,257
Westfield
Ottawa is a fragile market that is locked into a very small territory unlike the other Canadian teams. It hits home when you cross the Ottawa River into what was Hull and now called Gatineau - the francophone fans have not embraced the Sénateurs d'Ottawa over Le Tricolore and that is a sizable portion of the Ottawa Metro.

It is compounded by general indifference in much of Eastern Ontario. Once you get south of Smiths Falls you are in Leafs Nation. Kingston tilts towards Toronto and Cornwall tilts towards Montreal. Throw in you have many federal workers in Ottawa from all over Canada and things change depending on what party is in power.

One of my best friends promoted concerts in Ottawa in the late 70's and 80's and what is happening today does not surprise him. He told me of the panic he felt in 1978 when he had 'The Eagles' booked at Rideau Carleton Raceway and sales were sluggish until the last couple of days and it was a success. He now works in LA but has talked to the Sens marketing people and honestly feels they do not understand the matrix of the market.

Basically the Senators are the Devils of Canada.
 

Fenway

HF Bookie and Bruins Historian
Sponsor
Sep 26, 2007
68,892
99,338
Cambridge, MA
Basically the Senators are the Devils of Canada.

Ottawa has the same TV footprint as Montreal and the Senators have regional coverage into Newfoundland - but does anyone in Atlantic Canada actually watch Ottawa games? If and when Quebec City gets a team the TV footprint will become more muddled.
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad