Salary Cap: Salary Cap & Roster Building | Nine Mile Skid on a Ten Mile Ride

[ColePens]

It's around that time where we have to remind everyone that hacks are going to start putting Penguins in every rumour they can make up to get hits. Pretty much only the espn and cbc insider guys put out legit information. Almost everyone else is just making up whatever will get them the most hits. That includes supposed "pens insiders".

I think Bozak is an interesting case. Toronto is ready to move on from him, but I don't think they would want to help us out, and I'm not sure we have anything they need. They need a high end defenseman that can push everyone down their depth chart and that's about it. They have enough Cole's and the last thing they need is futures. I think they probably just hold on to the depth this season and let him walk rather than trading him.

Chiarelli and Bergevin should be sick of JR calling them by now.

Your warning is correct but it will not stop a single user from posting it immediately. Honestly if TIOPS or Eklund had a dumb rumor, it'd be posted in like 3 seconds.

 

[Tom Hanks]

We could always do a backdoor deal for Bozak. Make a deal with Botts for Bozak if he gets him. The old “we really wanted Bozak but the Penguins gave us an offer”.....walks away......rushes back.....”sorry, an offer we couldn’t refuse”

 

[Tom Hanks]

Your warning is correct but it will not stop a single user from posting it immediately. Honestly if TIOPS or Eklund had a dumb rumor, it'd be posted in like 3 seconds.

Quicker if they can type as fast as you

 

[Ugene Magic]

The difference between Detroit and the Penguins is that Detroit has no real expectations of trying to win a cup this year. Not sure we should either... however with Crosby, Malkin and the depth we have, not to mention that we're the defending champs, we're in a very different place then Detroit.

There's a difference from trading with the bottom dwellers and overpaying and making a hockey trade with an equal partner in the same scenario. Detroit falls into that bottom dweller who'll be selling off at the TDL. That's where you give up futures of quality.

That's my point.

Do prices at the deadline actually go up or by that much? Or does it just depend on the year?

Rip talks a good bit of it in detail, but that is for costly UFA's.

My stance has been for making hockey trades where you get fair value trading with equal partners.

Honestly? I don't think so. I mean it's all a gamble. Prices start really high, simply because the sellers have time on their hands. Right now Botts is asking for a 1st++ for Kane. Why? Because he has between now and the TD, and isn't under any pressure to sell now, and thus is free to ask for a sky high price in hope that some desperate GM will pay it. Where as the team buying is (in theory) under pressure to acquire that high end talent asap to try and win more games. However the closer you get to the TD... Botts loses the advantage that he has now (aka time), and his only play then is to play GMs off against one another. If he has multiple bidders bidding, and bidding seriously, he can use that to keep the price high. But I think the ask for Kane today will be less then what Botts receives when Kane is finally traded.

But then that's all dependent on supply and demand. Remember when Cammy was a Flame and Burke couldn't even get a 2nd for him? So instead of selling him cheap (I think the best offer he said he'd received was a 3rd+) he said FU to everyone and kept him. That year there were a bunch of quality forwards on the rental market, which drove down the prices for everyone. Anyone who sold before the TD would have received better prices then those who sold at/near the TD.

Bottom line? Prices can be all over the place. They'll start high, but there's zero guarantee that they'll stay there. And on the flip side... there's zero guarantee that they'll come down. It changes every year based on supply and demand and how desperate the buying GMs are.

I'm not buying the whole "prices go up at the deadline" bull****. I remember JR saying he paid a little bit more because he didn't have time to wait for the deadline in trying to get some defenders we needed due to injury.

Costs do go up when there is a bidding war for UFA's. Hainsey(Feb 23) and Streit (March 1st) cost a 2nd, 4th and Kristo. Hainsey was pretty much a TDL deal since he was done so close (6 days ahead) and a 2nd + Kristo was an overpayment. Streit for a 4th was a slight overpayment for what he was come March 1st.

So he pretty much made it to the TDL to make those deals.

It depends.. the ask gets higher at times, and topend ufa talent is pricy... but if you don't get tunnel vision tgere are always cheap viable players that get buried by bigger names and get panic moved for a lot less than expected

Yes.

Again, I'm going for a hockey trade straight up. There as equal partners will get fair value.

You overpay for rentals. Period.

Hockey trades gets you, tit for tat, A center for a wing, a center for a D-man and vise versus. Any trades happening from now to Feb 15th-ish will most likely be hockey trades. After that some of the UFA dominos will start to fall dependant on supply and demand for engrecious overpayments.

So why would you want to get caught up in that for important roster needs?

The only TDL deal that makes sense is Cullen for a 3rd/4th.

A Hockey trade example is like a Sheary for Coyle base.

 

[Peat]

The only hockey trade I can think of that might make sense is a re-signed Cole for Lindberg. Something of an overpay for an underperforming asset, but he has a history of being a legit 3C, its a price we can pay, and I think Vegas might be interested because it improves their defence long term with an underpay they can afford to make.

 

[billybudd]

I'm not buying the whole "prices go up at the deadline" bull****. I remember JR saying he paid a little bit more because he didn't have time to wait for the deadline in trying to get some defenders we needed due to injury.

Matter of perspective. If it's anything like any other negotiation closing in on a deadline, the parties converge.

For the person fielding offers, prices rise from whatever lowballs they were getting three months ago. From the perspective of a buyer, the price drops from whatever unrealistic ask they were hearing in November.

 

[Riptide]

Matter of perspective. If it's anything like any other negotiation closing in on a deadline, the parties converge.

For the person fielding offers, prices rise from whatever lowballs they were getting three months ago. From the perspective of a buyer, the price drops from whatever unrealistic ask they were hearing in November.

And everything in between depending on supply and demand.

 

[JTG]

We could always do a backdoor deal for Bozak. Make a deal with Botts for Bozak if he gets him. The old “we really wanted Bozak but the Penguins gave us an offer”.....walks away......rushes back.....”sorry, an offer we couldn’t refuse”

I don't think Botterill would burn a bridge this early into his tenure. Toronto would have to agree to a 3 way deal with us. I couldn't see it happening any other way.

That being said, I don't think Toronto is opposed to doing business with us at all. The issue is that they have to feel like they are becoming a better team for losing Bozak with what they are getting back, and I don't think we have the NHL pieces to accomplish that.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I don't think the Penguins are in a rush to make a trade right now because they have started playing better recently. This team on paper should be really good, if they start to figure their **** out, Rutherford won't have to make any significant trade to help the team (just add a 4C probably). The team is already plenty good enough if they're playing well.

The only hockey trade I can think of that might make sense is a re-signed Cole for Lindberg. Something of an overpay for an underperforming asset, but he has a history of being a legit 3C, its a price we can pay, and I think Vegas might be interested because it improves their defence long term with an underpay they can afford to make.

I don't think Vegas is looking to do anything right now, to be honest. They're doing so well that I don't even think they bother on making any trades subtracting from their roster. If they can add a legit top-4 defensemen, sure, I could see them doing something, but I don't see them doing anything smaller.

Looking at their roster, so many players are overperforming. I really wouldn't buy that what they're doing is sustainable, but then again, I've been saying that all year.

 

[Shaffer]

I don't think the Penguins are in a rush to make a trade right now because they have started playing better recently. This team on paper should be really good, if they start to figure their **** out, Rutherford won't have to make any significant trade to help the team (just add a 4C probably). The team is already plenty good enough if they're playing well.

How long can we wait, though? We still need a center. I think I’ve lost my patience with JR. I don’t doubt for one second that he hasn’t being calling around pursuing players, but he needs to hurry his shit up big time if we lose today and tomorrow.

 

[Empoleon8771]

How long can we wait, though? We still need a center. I think I’ve lost my patience with JR. I don’t doubt for one second that he hasn’t being calling around pursuing players, but he needs to hurry his **** up big time if we lose today and tomorrow.

As long as they need to, because if they're actually turning a corner, having Guentzel and Sheahan as your bottom-6 centers isn't a problem.

 

[Shaffer]

As long as they need to, because if they're actually turning a corner, having Guentzel and Sheahan as your bottom-6 centers isn't a problem.

Guentzel shouldn’t be playing center. He should be playing LW. Maybe my mind can be changed based on today’s game. Zack Smith is a LW/C so if we traded for him, Guentzel or him could play 3C and the other one with Geno-Phil.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Am I the only one that scrolls through this thread only looking for Twitter updates or @KIRK posts?

 

[Shaffer]

Am I the only one that scrolls through this thread only looking for Twitter updates or @KIRK posts?

I’d say yes, but everyone is desperate right now

 

[Shaffer]

Sam Reinhart has been getting calls, per McKenzie. I think JR is looking really closely at that situation. Probably cost us Sprong+

 

[Peat]

I don't think Vegas is looking to do anything right now, to be honest. They're doing so well that I don't even think they bother on making any trades subtracting from their roster. If they can add a legit top-4 defensemen, sure, I could see them doing something, but I don't see them doing anything smaller.

Looking at their roster, so many players are overperforming. I really wouldn't buy that what they're doing is sustainable, but then again, I've been saying that all year.

You're quite possibly right but given that Lindberg is one of the underperformers, and that they've got a real shortage of signed dmen for next year, and its a bit of an overpayment... I have mild hope.

 

[SprootsMasterFlex]

I don't think Botterill would burn a bridge this early into his tenure. Toronto would have to agree to a 3 way deal with us. I couldn't see it happening any other way.

That being said, I don't think Toronto is opposed to doing business with us at all. The issue is that they have to feel like they are becoming a better team for losing Bozak with what they are getting back, and I don't think we have the NHL pieces to accomplish that.

I could see a Bozak for Jack Johnson rather than a deal with the Pens

 

[SprootsMasterFlex]

I wonder if Sid and Jack Johnson are still BFFs?

 

[Ryder71]

I could see a Bozak for Jack Johnson rather than a deal with the Pens

Two organizations that don't like us, yeah I could see that or something similar. lol

 

[Coastal Kev]

If the Pens have no interest in trading Phil, I would wait until the offseason and simply try to sign Bozak.

 

[Big McLargehuge]

NYR and CBJ could both use a #3C. Less certain about the teams out west, but it wouldn't surprise me if at least one of them wanted one as well.

A nice reminder that Columbus paid Vegas a first rounder essentially to draft Wild Bill Karlsson.

 

[Tom Hanks]

Am I the only one that scrolls through this thread only looking for Twitter updates or @KIRK posts?

Don’t forget Richard

 

[The GM]

There's a difference from trading with the bottom dwellers and overpaying and making a hockey trade with an equal partner in the same scenario. Detroit falls into that bottom dweller who'll be selling off at the TDL. That's where you give up futures of quality.

That's my point.



Rip talks a good bit of it in detail, but that is for costly UFA's.

My stance has been for making hockey trades where you get fair value trading with equal partners.





Costs do go up when there is a bidding war for UFA's. Hainsey(Feb 23) and Streit (March 1st) cost a 2nd, 4th and Kristo. Hainsey was pretty much a TDL deal since he was done so close (6 days ahead) and a 2nd + Kristo was an overpayment. Streit for a 4th was a slight overpayment for what he was come March 1st.

So he pretty much made it to the TDL to make those deals.



Yes.

Again, I'm going for a hockey trade straight up. There as equal partners will get fair value.

You overpay for rentals. Period.

Hockey trades gets you, tit for tat, A center for a wing, a center for a D-man and vise versus. Any trades happening from now to Feb 15th-ish will most likely be hockey trades. After that some of the UFA dominos will start to fall dependant on supply and demand for engrecious overpayments.

So why would you want to get caught up in that for important roster needs?

The only TDL deal that makes sense is Cullen for a 3rd/4th.

A Hockey trade example is like a Sheary for Coyle base.

What could have been if we had only held onto Danny Kristo. Dare to dream, dare to dream.......

 

[USMC607]

Don't post much here, but figured I'd share a neat little run in I had today.

I work Security for Disney at Epcot.
Pass 2 days have ran into Bonino, his wife, and their daughter as they were getting checked coming into the park.

Both were super nice. Asked him how Nashville has been. He said good but that he missed Pittsburgh and the guys. Something about winning cups makes a city and the teammates closer to the indivduals.

Told him he wasn't missing much, since we weren't doing so hot. He just laughed and said they'd be fine.


Anyway. Random post from someone who doesn't do so often. But figured I'd share it anyway.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

CapFriendly.com Armchair-GM User-Generated Roster

FORWARDS (13)
Right wing: D. Sprong ($692,500) - P. Hörnqvist ($4,250,000) - P. Kessel ($6,800,000) - R. Reaves ($1,125,000)
Centre: S. Crosby ($8,700,000) - E. Malkin ($9,500,000) - J. Pageau ($3,100,000) - R. Sheahan ($2,075,000)
Left wing: D. Simon ($692,500) - J. Guentzel ($734,167) - C. Hagelin ($4,000,000) - T. Kühnhackl ($625,000) - G. Wilson ($650,000)

DEFENSE (7)
Right: K. Letang ($7,250,000) - J. Schultz ($5,500,000) - J. Oleksiak ($964,688) - C. Ruhwedel ($650,000)
Left: B. Dumoulin ($4,100,000) - O. Määttä ($4,083,333) - J. Johnson ($4,357,143)

GOALTENDER (2)
M. Murray ($3,750,000) - T. Jarry ($630,833)

DETAILS
Roster Size: 22
NHL Salary Cap: $75,000,000
Bonus Overages: $50,000
Cap Hit: $74,280,164
Cap Space: $719,836

Rust and Rowney on LTIR
Hunwick+pick for Jack Johnson (the famous Scuderi-for-Daley-type-deal)
Cole to Toronto for picks
Sheary+picks for Pageau


Errrr.... if Geno is hurt, trade for Brassard instead of Pageau