And I don't care who else said anything. This isn't a popularity contest. So, you, like them are wrong.
It's not about popularity. Where I was going with that, is that when multiple people say "you're wrong, and this is why", you should be at the very least pausing and looking at what they're saying and presenting to see if a re-evaluation is required. There's usually a reason when more than one person are saying the same thing. Not always, but it should make someone at least give things a second thought.
I made it perfectly clear as to what my stance on the matter is. To include all points and use the same sample for all players within the discussion.
I always have. The games played with their current team from this season. I've brought up what different players have done in past seasons to show that they're not all that different from this season (and I've done the same for Sheahan), but I've never excluded this season with their current team. A 37 game sample size is more than enough to get an idea as to what we can probably expect out of a player. Especially when it's not all that different then what the player has done in other seasons. Sheahan has had one absolutely dismal season. But prior to that, his stats are not out of wack with the pace he's currently on - which means what he's doing is likely sustainable.
Let me try one last time to explain why PP points as a baseline to compare different players from different teams is a terrible idea. Especially when looking at a team that's as stacked as Pittsburgh is up front.
@Peat had a great post on that
HERE. I've edited out part that addresses other posts in the quote below.
a) Power Play time is more a reflection of the team than the player. Why is Guentzel 138th among forwards for PP time when he's 93rd for production? Answer - the team has better PP forwards. Why did Bonino's PP usage drop when moving from Vancouver to Pittsburgh? Answer - the team had better PP forwards. Why isn't Sheahan, a forward with a decent history of PP usage, not being used much in Pittsburgh?
<snipe>
You look at their previous history and then you use your judgment to work out how they would transfer to their likely role over here. Which yes, does involve being selective with statistic use. A player probably won't score the same if their role goes from 2C to 3C, or if their PP usage halves. A player probably will score more if they're on a team where there hasn't been a massive decrease in production across the board since the new coach arrived.
So while you may feel that looking at Bozak as a 55pt player is a more accurate representation of him as a player, how can you rationally use that as some sort of baseline to compare him to a player on another team that doesn't receive any PP minutes? The whole point of this is to try and forecast some realistic expectations for said player if they magically became a Penguin. You can't forecast someone who's getting that much PP time (2:22, tied for 2nd on his team) and producing over 30% of their production on the PP... and then rationally expect them to come to a different team - especially here and do the same thing. It's just not rational or logical. That's my issue with including PP production. It's not about diminishing them as a player, it's about baselining some sort of expectations for them.
And as I've said before - if a player is that much better offensively... it WILL be reflected in their ES points. And it was with Bozak - he had 37 ES points last year with Toronto - which is very impressive and very good. But the latter (his ES production) is always going to be a much better representation as to what one should realistically expect if he were to magically become a Penguin tomorrow. That's just the reality of being a Penguin and having to deal with getting scraps for PP minutes. If you look at the last game vs NYR (where our PP was poor - 0/3), the forwards on the 2nd unit only averaged 45 seconds a PP. However, if you look at the game vs DET where our PP was good (2/5), that 2nd unit in 5 PPs averaged around 20-25 seconds a PP, and none received 2 minutes of total PP time that game, where as our big boys all received 4 minutes + (the big 3, 5 minutes+).
It would be a little different if we were talking about a skilled top 6 winger who could realistically challenge for some quality PP minutes. Then I'd care a lot less about their PP production. But when we're talking about a #3C - and one who would likely be taking on a heavy defensive role - or at least should be given the quality of centers ahead of them, any PP production from them will be a bonus, not the "norm" - because they just won't get the minutes. The joys of having the talent we do, and the leagues best PP.
I could bring up zone starts and quality of linemates and whatnot... but I suspect that like everything else, it will be a waste of time.
Right, when people expose you for the fraud that you are and the fact that your criteria is derived from cherry picking. That would make anyone mad.
The f***?