Salary Cap: Salary Cap & Roster Building - Locked in until July

[Sidney the Kidney]

Why are they moving Kessel for pennies on the dollar? Kessel's value right now is the highest that it's ever going to be. He's coming off a 92 point season, he's not going to repeat what he did this year.

When I say "pennies on the dollar", I mean that no matter the trade, we're not getting the best player in the deal. Whoever we get back will be a lesser player.

So while he probably won't repeat his 92 point season, I'd be surprised if the player we get in return can match his roughly 70 point production we'd be losing out on.

Especially since teams know that the Pens are actively shopping him because Sullivan hates him.

 

[Andy99]

Uh, while Kessel's performance was sub-par, this is no way on him. When the entire team (excluding Sid, Jake, and maybe Horny) looked awfully mediocre to downright awful, this shouldn't be pinned on Kessel.

Outside of our top line, most of the players did not play to their abilities this POs including Murray....but people need to start giving the Caps their due....it really was more the Caps playing very tight team defense and boxing out in front of Holtby that led to them taking the series....

 

[Empoleon8771]

When I say "pennies on the dollar", I mean that no matter the trade, we're not getting the best player in the deal. Whoever we get back will be a lesser player.

So while he probably won't repeat his 92 point season, I'd be surprised if the player we get in return can match his roughly 70 point production we'd be losing out on.

Especially since teams know that the Pens are actively shopping him because Sullivan hates him.

But that's always going to be the case and it doesn't matter if he's traded now or next offseason or in 2020. That's just the way it's going to be. Kessel isn't finishing his contract here, this really needs to be emphasized. At absolute latest, I see him being traded in 2020 before the expansion draft. This isn't "Kessel or no Kessel", it's "trade Kessel now or trade Kessel next offseason".

I think something needs to be clarified. Kessel isn't being traded because he and Sullivan are hating each other, I think those two hating each other is just expediting Kessel being traded. It's making it happen sooner than you would have originally guessed it would happen.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

But that's always going to be the case and it doesn't matter if he's traded now or next offseason or in 2020. That's just the way it's going to be. Kessel isn't finishing his contract here, this really needs to be emphasized. At absolute latest, I see him being traded in 2020 before the expansion draft. This isn't "Kessel or no Kessel", it's "trade Kessel now or trade Kessel next offseason".

And I'd rather trade Kessel next offseason after seeing if we can win the Cup again. Even if his value goes down even more, I'd rather risk that than trade him when we're still poised to win a Cup in 2018-19 and IMO, he could be a bit part of that happening.

 

[madinsomniac]

Meh them testing the waters on Kessel's value doesn't mean he is out the door just yet.... at some future point Kessel has to go to keep the younger guys... but I don't think they bargin dump him yet

 

[Empoleon8771]

And I'd rather trade Kessel next offseason after seeing if we can win the Cup again. Even if his value goes down even more, I'd rather risk that than trade him when we're still poised to win a Cup in 2018-19 and IMO, he could be a bit part of that happening.

If it's 1 more cup run or getting better value for Kessel, I'd probably take getting better value for Kessel. I don't like the gamble on Kessel's value by keeping him an extra year. I think they can 100% get a good top-6 forward for Kessel right now, someone like Niederreiter, Dadanov or Saad. If Kessel regresses back to where he was in 2016-2017 (which was still very good), I don't think it's a given that you can pull off one of those guys. You may just end up getting a futures heavy package then, which you kinda have to take at that point.

I think you need to look at these next 3 years as a collective whole. Does trading Kessel this offseason result in you getting the best chances to win in the next 3 years? Or does keeping Kessel for a year and then trading him give you the best chances? Or even keeping him for 2 years and then trading him, but I think that's as long as you can wait to trade him. The Penguins can't use a protection slot on him in the next expansion draft, they have way too many younger and cheaper forwards they have to protect.

I think trading Kessel this summer results in you being worse next season, but you'll probably end up better in seasons 2 and 3 without Kessel. That's comparing trading Kessel now to trading Kessel next offseason.

 

[DeadPuckEra]

Why is it being stated as fact - that Kessel was always going to be traded?

None of you know the Penguins plans lol

Any why are people so adamant that you can’t get a comparable player in a trade involving Kessel. Just this constant moaning about not being able to get an equal player back... calm down.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

But Kessel being a nightmare for coaches is why Kessel might be dealt. Sullivan isn't just unfairly hating Kessel, Kessel is bringing it on himself because of the kind of person/professional he is.

Kessel has his reputation for a reason. I'm not going to blame Sullivan for having issues with Kessel when it is really well known how bad Kessel is for coaches.

Kessel was fine the last two years. Some blame can go to him, but Sullivan choosing to favor guys like Sheary, Kuhn, and Rowney ....while never giving Sprong a chance(when we needed scoring) ...and running Cole out at the deadline...

Doesnt bode well.

So we just gonna get rid of every talented player who doesnt fit Sullivans criteria? Not every player has to be like Hornqvist, Hagelin, etc. A team can have guys like Kessel and Sprong...and win.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

If you think a 2 on 1 is a routine player on a power play I don’t know what to say.

They overloaded the left side and had two players on Letang. Which allowed for them to cycle the puck down.

It wasn't a 2-on-1 at any point. You're being deliberately dishonest, and it's revealing about how flimsy your position is when you can't acknowledge what's there for everyone to see.

The video evidence is clear as day - Kessel had position on his man the entire way. If Letang was trying to cover two players by himself when one of them was already covered, that's his mistake.

 

[Gurglesons]

When I say "pennies on the dollar", I mean that no matter the trade, we're not getting the best player in the deal. Whoever we get back will be a lesser player.

So while he probably won't repeat his 92 point season, I'd be surprised if the player we get in return can match his roughly 70 point production we'd be losing out on.

Especially since teams know that the Pens are actively shopping him because Sullivan hates him.

You may not replace prime Kessel. But if you give Jake or Sprong the opportunity to move up to the powerplay and bring in a 40-50 pt player to put in the top six you may be better off down the line.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

And I'd rather trade Kessel next offseason after seeing if we can win the Cup again. Even if his value goes down even more, I'd rather risk that than trade him when we're still poised to win a Cup in 2018-19 and IMO, he could be a bit part of that happening.

Yup...keep the team together. Move Sheary, add Sprong. Add to the defense. Pray they stay healthy. Thats all thats needed.

And make sure we have a solid backup in case he needs to come in for Murray. Need to find out if thats Jarry or DeSmith. Or someone else. Expecting Murray to be better than this past season...but we still need a great backup in case. Thats what won us the cup the last 2 years. Thats what finally got Holtby to play to this level(getting benched, coming back). It helps goalies knowing there is someone behind them.

1. Competition, pushing them .
2. There isnt the pressure that if they fail, they are going to cost the team. Someone else can come in and do well.


If we dont win it all next year...then we can look for a big trade. Kessel or/and Letang. Im all about trading them before their contracts are up to extend our window and add a spark. Just not a year removed from back to back cups and a playoff run filled with injuries. We dont need to have another big turnover in the roster again messing with chemistry. Lets see what happens next year now that they are getting rest, target isnt on their backs...and have that hunger again to make up for this season.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Kessel was fine the last two years. Some blame can go to him, but Sullivan choosing to favor guys like Sheary, Kuhn, and Rowney ....while never giving Sprong a chance(when we needed scoring) ...and running Cole out at the deadline...

Doesnt bode well.

So we just gonna get rid of every talented player who doesnt fit Sullivans criteria? Not every player has to be like Hornqvist, Hagelin, etc. A team can have guys like Kessel and Sprong...and win.

Perron and Neal are pretty clear evidence of that too.

 

[Shaffer]

Iced Cap was good. But his job made him axe his account.

He’s still here. @12IsGreaterThan47 is his new username.

 

[cheesedanish87]

20 Penguins Thoughts: So, was Phil Kessel hurt or not?

If I had to wager a bet, I’d say Rutherford was peeved that Kessel kept playing, was allowed to keep playing and didn’t take time off to let his injuries heal.

I also think Sullivan — who allowed Kessel to keep his streak going — was peeved that Kessel didn’t do a better job of playing through whatever was bothering him.

I asked Rutherford on Monday whether he thought too much emphasis has been placed on Kessel’s Ironman streak.
“That’s hard to say … hard to say,” Rutherford said, repeating himself. “He’s a guy that’s always been used to playing and doesn’t want to take games off. That’s hard to say.”



That was Mackey take earlier in the week before Cook and Madden came out with their stories.

JR dancing around the question of Phil's stupid ironman streak tells you he probably isn't a big fan of it.

 

[Gurglesons]

Yup...keep the team together. Move Sheary, add Sprong. Add to the defense. Pray they stay healthy. Thats all thats needed.

And make sure we have a solid backup in case he needs to come in for Murray. Need to find out if thats Jarry or DeSmith. Or someone else. Expecting Murray to be better than this past season...but we still need a great backup in case. Thats what won us the cup the last 2 years. Thats what finally got Holtby to play to this level(getting benched, coming back). It helps goalies knowing there is someone behind them.

1. Competition, pushing them .
2. There isnt the pressure that if they fail, they are going to cost the team. Someone else can come in and do well.


If we dont win it all next year...then we can look for a big trade. Kessel or/and Letang. Im all about trading them before their contracts are up to extend our window and add a spark. Just not a year removed from back to back cups and a playoff run filled with injuries. We dont need to have another big turnover in the roster again messing with chemistry. Lets see what happens next year now that they are getting rest, target isnt on their backs...and have that hunger again to make up for this season.

And what happens if Kessel comes back and has a 14-15 Leaf type season and Letang suffers a huge injury or continues his erratic play of the last year?

You basically just closed the window.

I like them both, they are also both question marks going into next season and moving them is not the nail in the coffin some want to make it seem like.

As Mackey said..

There are very few untouchables for Rutherford.
Sidney Crosby, Evgeni Malkin, Patric Hornqvist, Jake Guentzel, Brian Dumoulin, Matt Murray … that’s probably it, honestly.

That’s how it should be. If we get the right deal, pull the trigger.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Kessel was fine the last two years. Some blame can go to him, but Sullivan choosing to favor guys like Sheary, Kuhn, and Rowney ....while never giving Sprong a chance(when we needed scoring) ...and running Cole out at the deadline...

Doesnt bode well.

So we just gonna get rid of every talented player who doesnt fit Sullivans criteria? Not every player has to be like Hornqvist, Hagelin, etc. A team can have guys like Kessel and Sprong...and win.

You can win with guys like Kessel and Sprong of course, but you can also win without having those kinds of guys. You can win with a room full of players with Crosby attitudes, and you can also win with a room full of players with Kessel attitudes. I wouldn't say the 2009 Penguins had personalities like Sprong and Kessel in the locker room, or at least I can't think of any players like that off the top of my head. The problem here isn't offensive players vs all around players, I think it has to do more with personalities and how they approach the game. I know there's more to it than this, but why is Sullivan seemingly fine with Sheary and Simon while he has problems with Kessel and Sprong? All 4 of those guys are offensive wingers who aren't very good defensively.

 

[Shaffer]

We need a plan if we are trading Kessel. Here are three plans I can think of:

1: Trading Kessel for futures if it is close to a guarantee we sign Tavares

2: Trading Kessel for a Top 4D and high pick/A prospect

3: Trading Kessel in a hockey trade for a High #2D

 

[Jacob]

His coach said he wasn’t injured.

So far literally everyone else has said he was.

 

[Gurglesons]

So far literally everyone else has said he was.

Rutherford and Sullivan have both insinuated the injuries were standard playoffs injuries and he basically should have been able to produce through them.

 

[Jacob]

*wags finger* We are to believe Madden with regard to trade rumors but not injury rumors.

 

[Empoleon8771]

We need a plan if we are trading Kessel. Here are three plans I can think of:

1: Trading Kessel for futures if it is close to a guarantee we sign Tavares

2: Trading Kessel for a Top 4D and high pick/A prospect

3: Trading Kessel in a hockey trade for a High #2D

The Penguins have spent way too much money on their defense to trade Kessel for a defenseman. Trading Kessel for a defenseman has to come after the Penguins trade a defenseman for a winger, I'm not going to be comfortable with adding a #2D or another top-4 D when they've already committed a ton of money to Maatta, Letang, Dumoulin and Schultz.

 

[Jacob]

Rutherford and Sullivan have both insinuated the injuries were standard playoffs injuries and he basically should have been able to produce through them.

So trade him because he had a bad playoffs with no excuse for it? Why not Murray & Brassard too? Why not Geno 3 years ago? Or Crosby 4 years ago? We could probably get 2 Charlie Coyles and 2 firsts for Sid.

 

[Gurglesons]

So trade him because he had a bad playoffs with no excuse for it? Why not Murray & Brassard too? Why not Geno 3 years ago? Or Crosby 4 years ago?

No.

Trade him because if a team offers a 24 - 28 year old 50 pt winger and a first round draft pick it makes us a better team over the next three or four years versus Kessel who will succumb to age and put up almost half of his points on the PP.

Trade him because roster turn over can bring in hungrier players.

Also, I’ll be happy if Letang and Kessel are Penguins next season. I think they are great players, I just completely understand if the Penguins move on from either of them.

Crosby, Malkin and Murray are much different cases. And Murray even isn’t someone I think the Pens have to absolutely keep.

 

[cheesedanish87]

I'm kind of hoping for another Neal and Horny type trade with Phil.

Your not going to get a player back that's going to score as much as Phil

But you should be able to get a more well rounded player that's capable of putting up 60 points.

 

[Jacob]

No.

Trade him because if a team offers a 24 - 28 year old 50 pt winger and a # 1 draft pick it makes us a better team over the next three or four years versus Kessel who will succumb to age and put up almost half of his points on the PP.

Just not seeing it. It’s like trading $500 for $300 and a scratch off ticket.