Salary cap crunch next year

[bwana63]

That was Doug Wilson playing games (or being smart).. He wanted Neimi or Hammer, so he hit Hammer with an offersheet forcing Bowman to choose one or the other. If Wilson didn't offersheet Hammer the Hawks would have kept both.

The Hawks aren't even in that position this time, and the offer it would take for the Hawks to walk away would be substantial (5 per) which would cost a team a lot in compensation (a 1st, 2nd and 3rd I believe).

Now does a team want to pay Saad 5 million per AND lose a 1st, 2nd and 3rd round pick?

Especially when they can get a guy like Richards (who is similar) right now for free at a similar cap hit?

+infinity

There it is. Thank you.

 

[Hawkaholic]

Because they aren't getting him! What is so hard to understand. They can offer sheet him but all it does is guarantees they won't be getting a wing from the Hawks.

Why wasn't Ryan Johansen offer sheeted?

They may not get him, but any team in the league could really hurt Chicago by offer sheeting him even knowing they won't get him. Every other team knows Chicago is a top team, and if they offer sheet Saad, they are hurting our chances of being even better as we won't have the cap space to add what we may need.

Johansen wasn't offer sheeted because every other team knew CLB would match it, and had lots of room to match. It would be pointless.

 

[Hawksfan2828]

Use $71 or $72 mil

Saad will get 4 MAX... The guy currently is making $750,000.

I say he gets 3.5 which only adds 2.75. So say Saad's cap hit next season wipes out any cap increase, trade Bickell and the Hawks have 8-9 million to get Kruger and Oduya signed. Of course the Hawks would still have cap space left from Rozy and Richards being gone, which is an additional 4.2 million.

The Hawks will be fine when they trade Bickell.

 

[Hawksfan2828]

They may not get him, but any team in the league could really hurt Chicago by offer sheeting him even knowing they won't get him. Every other team knows Chicago is a top team, and if they offer sheet Saad, they are hurting our chances of being even better as we won't have the cap space to add what we may need.

Johansen wasn't offer sheeted because every other team knew CLB would match it, and had lots of room to match. It would be pointless.

No team is going to play that game with a 5 million dollar offersheet. Sure, a 2.5 million dollar offerhseet isn't a gamble at all considering the compensation is only a 3rd round pick, but a 1st and 3rd AND a 5 million dollar cap hit is a completely different story.

No GM is going to play that game.

Wilson had nothing to lose when he offersheeted Hammer, however offering 5 mil is playing with fire if your intent is to play games.

 

[topnotch]

Offer sheets are rare because teams and players usually agree on what the player is worth. That means for an offer sheet to be signed the player must believe he is worth much more than his team is offering AND find another team who agrees with him.

GMs don't throw out 5 million dollar offer sheets to players like Saad because it sets precedent with their own RFAs and others around the league. Continually out biding other GMs just drives up the price of RFAs - especially when those RFAs are arbitration eligible.

The Hawks will be fair with Saad (~3.5 mil on a bridge) and it's unlikely another team values him a whole lot more. This is the nature of RFAs in the NHL. I'm sure other GMs will come sniffing around, but once they find out what the Hawks are offering, I doubt they add another 1-2 million on top of that.

 

[Kurtosis]

No team is going to play that game with a 5 million dollar offersheet. Sure, a 2.5 million dollar offerhseet isn't a gamble at all considering the compensation is only a 3rd round pick, but a 1st and 3rd AND a 5 million dollar cap hit is a completely different story.

No GM is going to play that game.

Wilson had nothing to lose when he offersheeted Hammer, however offering 5 mil is playing with fire if your intent is to play games.

You're overrating the value of draft picks, especially to a team like Pittsburgh.

 

[Hawksfan2828]

Lets also not forget the Hawks could afford to let Saad walk if they had to. I mean there are plenty of UFA's that would be more than willing to come to Chicago at 3.5 million that could be just as effective as Saad.

Not to mention the Hawks would also get a 1st and 3rd (if not more) for free, a 1st which could be a potentially high pick (top 15) depending on the team that offersheets him.

Could you imagine if Buffalo or Edmonton offersheeted Saad? Yeah, a top 10 pick sounds fine to me for a player that wanted a 600% increase in salary.

It's not like losing Saad would be a significant step backwards when he could be replaced on the UFA market... It would just suck to lose a kid with his skill set and that potential.

 

[Kurtosis]

Lets also not forget the Hawks could afford to let Saad walk if they had to. I mean there are plenty of UFA's that would be more than willing to come to Chicago at 3.5 million that could be just as effective as Saad.

Not to mention the Hawks would also get a 1st and 3rd (if not more) for free, a 1st which could be a potentially high pick (top 15) depending on the team that offersheets him.

Could you imagine if Buffalo or Edmonton offersheeted Saad? Yeah, a top 10 pick sounds fine to me for a player that wanted a 600% increase in salary.

It's not like losing Saad would be a significant step backwards when he could be replaced on the UFA market... It would just suck to lose a kid with his skill set and that potential.

Who?

 

[Hawksfan2828]

You're overrating the value of draft picks, especially to a team like Pittsburgh.

Pittsburgh doesn't have enough on the farm to give up more picks, and would be up against the cap if they offersheeted Saad.

Besides, why would they offersheet Saad anyway when there are plenty of better RFA's on the market?

Why not offersheet Terasenko? The Blues are going to have a more difficult time signing him than the Hawks are signing Saad.

 

[Pepe Silvia]

No they can't let him walk. He's too important to the team going forward and getting him resigned will be their number one priority, along with staying under the cap. I think they'd even trade Sharp if they had to, but I don't think it will come to that.

I think Saad gets a deal very similar to Tyler Johnson or Johansen, so $10-12m over 3 years. People are also really overestimating the power a RFA has.

 

[Kurtosis]

Pittsburgh doesn't have enough on the farm to give up more picks, and would be up against the cap if they offersheeted Saad.

Besides, why would they offersheet Saad anyway when there are plenty of better RFA's on the market?

Why not offersheet Terasenko? The Blues are going to have a more difficult time signing him than the Hawks are signing Saad.

You say they would be up against the cap if they extend and offer sheet to Saad and then ask why they wouldn't offer sheet Tarasenko? You're all over the place right now.

Who are the plenty of better UFA's and now RFA's you speak of? We have Tarasenko and who else?

 

[Hawksfan2828]

Who?

Take your pick.

http://www.spotrac.com/nhl/free-agents/ufa/left-wing/

 

[Kurtosis]

Take your pick.

http://www.spotrac.com/nhl/free-agents/ufa/left-wing/

That's a list from 2014.

Here's an accurate list:

http://www.spotrac.com/nhl/free-agents/2015/ufa/left-wing/

Not seeing much there.

 

[Hawksfan2828]

You say they would be up against the cap if they extend and offer sheet to Saad and then ask why they wouldn't offer sheet Tarasenko? You're all over the place right now.

Who are the plenty of better UFA's and now RFA's you speak of? We have Tarasenko and who else?

I'm merely pointing out why Saad and that there are better RFA's.

I can give you 3 legitimate reasons why the Pens wouldn't offersheet Saad.

- It would put them against the cap

- Their farm is thin and they cant afford to give up a 1st and 3rd (if they even have a 1st and 3rd).

- They can fill a LW void on the UFA market at much less of a price, factoring in RFA compensation.

 

[Hawkscap]

Saad will get 4 MAX... The guy currently is making $750,000.

I say he gets 3.5 which only adds 2.75. So say Saad's cap hit next season wipes out any cap increase, trade Bickell and the Hawks have 8-9 million to get Kruger and Oduya signed. Of course the Hawks would still have cap space left from Rozy and Richards being gone, which is an additional 4.2 million.

The Hawks will be fine when they trade Bickell.

You might want to look at your math again.

If you go with the roster before TVR injury and just use players under contract

$65 million 14 players

remove Bickell add Saad at $4 mil

no change

Hawks have to add 8 players with $7 million left with a $72 mil cap


So now you have to add 3 more D men and 5 Forwards
which have to avg $875k per player

Player Cap hit*
1 Kane, Patrick $10,500,000
2 Toews, Jonathan $10,500,000
3 Crawford, Corey $6,000,000
4 Sharp, Patrick $5,900,000
5 Seabrook, Brent $5,800,000
6 Keith, Duncan $5,538,462
7 Hossa, Marian $5,275,000
8 Hjalmarsson, Niklas $4,100,000
9 Saad $4,000,000
10 Versteeg, Kris $2,200,000
11 Shaw,Andrew $2,000,000
12 Smith, Ben $1,500,000
13 van Riemsdyk, Trevor $925,000
14 Raanta,Anti $750,000
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
total $64,988,462

cap $72,000,000
cap room $7,011,538

 

[Hawksfan2828]

That's a list from 2014.

Here's an accurate list:

http://www.spotrac.com/nhl/free-agents/2015/ufa/left-wing/

Not seeing much there.

The top 10 on that list would be more than adequate.

Not only that but a RW can just as easily play LW. Center is the only "specialist" position. Usually LW and RW are just preferences.

 

[Kurtosis]

The top 10 on that list would be more than adequate.

Not only that but a RW can just as easily play LW. Center is the only "specialist" position. Usually LW and RW are just preferences.

You're moving the goalposts.

 

[Taze em]

You might want to look at your math again.

If you go with the roster before TVR injury and just use players under contract

$65 million 14 players

remove Bickell add Saad at $4 mil

no change

Hawks have to add 8 players with $7 million left with a $72 mil cap


So now you have to add 3 more D men and 5 Forwards
which have to avg $875k per player

Player Cap hit*
1 Kane, Patrick $10,500,000
2 Toews, Jonathan $10,500,000
3 Crawford, Corey $6,000,000
4 Sharp, Patrick $5,900,000
5 Seabrook, Brent $5,800,000
6 Keith, Duncan $5,538,462
7 Hossa, Marian $5,275,000
8 Hjalmarsson, Niklas $4,100,000
9 Saad $4,000,000
10 Versteeg, Kris $2,200,000
11 Shaw,Andrew $2,000,000
12 Smith, Ben $1,500,000
13 van Riemsdyk, Trevor $925,000
14 Raanta,Anti $750,000
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
total $64,988,462

cap $72,000,000
cap room $7,011,538

That's exactly right and exactly the right amount the Hawks need. 8 players for 7 Mill is perfect.

Add Teravainen, Danault, Nordstrom, Ross/McNeill and a Regin/Carcillo type.

Add 3 of the 6 NHL read D in the minors.

I don't think your illustration showed what you wanted it to show. That breakdown looks ideal for the Hawks, not "trouble". Sincerely, thank you for doing the legwork.

 

[Hawkscap]

That's exactly right and exactly the right amount the Hawks need. 8 players for 7 Mill is perfect.

Add Teravainen, Danault, Nordstrom, Ross/McNeill and a Regin/Carcillo type.

Add 3 of the 6 NHL read D in the minors.

I don't think your illustration showed what you wanted it to show. That breakdown looks ideal for the Hawks, not "trouble". Sincerely, thank you for doing the legwork.

If you are happy with what the 2011 team did, you should be happy.
Now sign Kruger and Oduya for $2 mil a piece and see what the last 6 spots get.

Pisani 2.0 6 spots with a $500k avg.

 

[Taze em]

Which creates a lineup that looks something like:

Saad Toews Hossa
Sharp Teravainen Kane
Versteeg Shaw McNeill
Ross Danault Smith

Keith Seabrook
Hjalmarsson TVR
Vet Min, Rundblad, Dahlbeck, Clendening, Erixon, whoever.

 

[Hawksfan2828]

You might want to look at your math again.

If you go with the roster before TVR injury and just use players under contract

$65 million 14 players

remove Bickell add Saad at $4 mil

no change

Hawks have to add 8 players with $7 million left with a $72 mil cap


So now you have to add 3 more D men and 5 Forwards
which have to avg $875k per player

Player Cap hit*
1 Kane, Patrick $10,500,000
2 Toews, Jonathan $10,500,000
3 Crawford, Corey $6,000,000
4 Sharp, Patrick $5,900,000
5 Seabrook, Brent $5,800,000
6 Keith, Duncan $5,538,462
7 Hossa, Marian $5,275,000
8 Hjalmarsson, Niklas $4,100,000
9 Saad $4,000,000
10 Versteeg, Kris $2,200,000
11 Shaw,Andrew $2,000,000
12 Smith, Ben $1,500,000
13 van Riemsdyk, Trevor $925,000
14 Raanta,Anti $750,000
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
total $64,988,462

cap $72,000,000
cap room $7,011,538

Well TT is also on the roster at your total of 64,988,462, so it's 7 players.

RFA's

Kruger 1.50
Nordstrom .700
Rundblad .650
Erixon .700

That is 3.550, leaving 3.5 for 3 UFA roster spots, leaving 1.2 per for each roster spot.

Of course that is assuming Bickell gets 4 per (which I doubt, more like 3.5)...

If Bickell gets 3.5 that's 1.43 per for 3 additional roster spots.

Well at least using your math.

 

[Hawksfan2828]

You're moving the goalposts.

I'm not moving any goalposts - you're assuming the only LW's can play LW...

 

[Taze em]

If you are happy with what the 2011 team did, you should be happy.
Now sign Kruger for $2 mil and see what that does to your average.

You honestly think that team would be 2011 bad? Bickell, Richards, Kruger and Oduya are that back breaking?

 

[Kurtosis]

I'm not moving any goalposts - you're assuming the only LW's can play LW...

No I'm not. I gave you a list of LW's and then you countered with RW's can play LW too. You should have just said winger in the first place.

And the list of wings available this year consists of crap. That's the whole point and one that puts a hole in your argument.

 

[Hawksfan2828]

No I'm not. I gave you a list of LW's and then you countered with RW's can play LW too. You should have just said winger in the first place.

And the list of wings available this year consists of crap. That's the whole point and one that puts a hole in your argument.

Well, I'm not the one claiming Saad is going to get offersheeted, and I'm not the one claiming he's getting 4 per.