Saginaw Spirit 2023-24 Season Thread (Part One)

[Kingpin794]

Remaining schedule for Saginaw and the Soo will make for a very close race that will likely come down to the last weekend.

Saginaw 22 games left: OTT, BAR x2, OWS x2, Erie x2, Soo x2, SUD, NB x2, Flint, BFD x2, GUE x3, KNG, SAR, WSR

Soo 21 games left: SUD x3, MISS, NIA, SAG x2, LDN x2, WSR x2, SAR x3, PETE, KIT, OSH, GUE, Flint, OWS

Pro for Saginaw- No more games against London or Kitchener. Only one against Sudbury.
Cons for Saginaw- Played most of their games against WSR, SAR, Flint. 13 of these games are on the road.
Toughest Sets- Soo, NB, BFD, GUE

Pros for Soo- Lots of games against lower teams. Gives them a buffer if needed. 13 games left at home.
Cons for Soo- Still have to play a big chunk of games against LDN, SUD, and KIT. Could cancel out the easier part of the remaining schedule
Toughest Sets- LDN, SAG, SUD

My rough guess has us both finishing around 97 points. Should be a tense finish.

 

[Fischhaber]

Remaining schedule for Saginaw and the Soo will make for a very close race that will likely come down to the last weekend.

Saginaw 22 games left: OTT, BAR x2, OWS x2, Erie x2, Soo x2, SUD, NB x2, Flint, BFD x2, GUE x3, KNG, SAR, WSR

Soo 21 games left: SUD x3, MISS, NIA, SAG x2, LDN x2, WSR x2, SAR x3, PETE, KIT, OSH, GUE, Flint, OWS

Pro for Saginaw- No more games against London or Kitchener. Only one against Sudbury.
Cons for Saginaw- Played most of their games against WSR, SAR, Flint. 13 of these games are on the road.
Toughest Sets- Soo, NB, BFD, GUE

Pros for Soo- Lots of games against lower teams. Gives them a buffer if needed. 13 games left at home.
Cons for Soo- Still have to play a big chunk of games against LDN, SUD, and KIT. Could cancel out the easier part of the remaining schedule
Toughest Sets- LDN, SAG, SUD

My rough guess has us both finishing around 97 points. Should be a tense finish.

The Hounds haven't had much trouble beating London, Sudbury, or Kitchener this year (6-2 record) or in the past. There seems to be a long standing confidence against those teams. They even had a double digit win streak against London in the recent past.

I think the key for them is obviously to beat Saginaw, but also to avoid losses in the trap games that have hurt them all season.

I haven't watched Saginaw nearly as much, but defense consistently seems to be the issue in losses. There's too much goal scoring talent to hold them back in that regard.

Lazary said as much in his post-game comments last night, about the same issues always hurting them. To me, that means guys like Hay and Misa, who gave half efforts defensively last night. The Hounds work as hard as any team and legitimately have 4 lines that contribute and will find your holes.

If those issues are cleaned up, I think Spirit have a lot more talent where it matters, especially when rosters are shortened up in the playoffs. That's undeniable.

 

[Kingpin794]

The Hounds haven't had much trouble beating London, Sudbury, or Kitchener this year (6-2 record) or in the past. There seems to be a long standing confidence against those teams. They even had a double digit win streak against London in the recent past.

I think the key for them is obviously to beat Saginaw, but also to avoid losses in the trap games that have hurt them all season.

I haven't watched Saginaw nearly as much, but defense consistently seems to be the issue in losses. There's too much goal scoring talent to hold them back in that regard.

Lazary said as much in his post-game comments last night, about the same issues always hurting them. To me, that means guys like Hay and Misa, who gave half efforts defensively last night. The Hounds work as hard as any team and legitimately have 4 lines that contribute and will find your holes.

If those issues are cleaned up, I think Spirit have a lot more talent where it matters, especially when rosters are shortened up in the playoffs. That's undeniable.

Yeah Saginaw's defense is based on possession. If you get shots you have possession in the opponents zone which means they aren't in yours and you need to win faceoffs to get possession. Most nights they hit those marks. Getting off this schedule really gets them off their game. They've built up the line up to play their game. That's why I'm not super worried about L's here and there. They get back to their game quick. Just need to tighten things up.

 

[three dog night]

What excuse for the bad crowd last night.

 

[donjohnson]

Defense has always been a problem in Lazary's system and I think that's what will keep him at the OHL level. That's good and bad...he'll have lot of success in the OHL because players want to come play in his system. It's bad because unless a goalie is playing more than lights out, you have to score 4 or 5 a night to win. For anyone who was in the arena last night, I think that you'll agree that Oke played a heckuva game which is crazy because Soo scored 5. The amount of Grade A chances that Saginaw gives up is staggering and it took a great performance from Oke to keep Soo from scoring 12 last night. With the exception of the one that squeezed through his arm, the other 4 were all totally legit goals...an amazing pass on the powerplay, a rip PP one-timer to the top corner, an incredible individual effort by Gavin Hayes and then a 2on1 at the end.

 

[donjohnson]

What excuse for the bad crowd last night.

Dog ate my tickets?

Crowd was fine...actually more than I thought there would be. We're a family show, it's a school night, what do you expect? I think it was announced at 2500 and change...not too bad for a Wednesday night.

If you were watching on TV you didn't see both party decks were full so there's 200ish people that won't show up on the screen.

 

[Fischhaber]

Defense has always been a problem in Lazary's system and I think that's what will keep him at the OHL level. That's good and bad...he'll have lot of success in the OHL because players want to come play in his system. It's bad because unless a goalie is playing more than lights out, you have to score 4 or 5 a night to win. For anyone who was in the arena last night, I think that you'll agree that Oke played a heckuva game which is crazy because Soo scored 5. The amount of Grade A chances that Saginaw gives up is staggering and it took a great performance from Oke to keep Soo from scoring 12 last night. With the exception of the one that squeezed through his arm, the other 4 were all totally legit goals...an amazing pass on the powerplay, a rip PP one-timer to the top corner, an incredible individual effort by Gavin Hayes and then a 2on1 at the end.

I thought Oke was outstanding in the first period especially. When it was 3-0, I thought that the play was pretty even, or even a bit in favour of the Greyhounds, at least at even strength

 

[donjohnson]

I felt like the Spirit controlled the play in the first two periods and they were winning most of the 50/50 pucks but that the Soo was still somehow getting the better scoring chances despite the 3-1 score. The 3rd period was all SSM and it wasn't even close.

 

[Kingpin794]

Defense has always been a problem in Lazary's system and I think that's what will keep him at the OHL level. That's good and bad...he'll have lot of success in the OHL because players want to come play in his system. It's bad because unless a goalie is playing more than lights out, you have to score 4 or 5 a night to win. For anyone who was in the arena last night, I think that you'll agree that Oke played a heckuva game which is crazy because Soo scored 5. The amount of Grade A chances that Saginaw gives up is staggering and it took a great performance from Oke to keep Soo from scoring 12 last night. With the exception of the one that squeezed through his arm, the other 4 were all totally legit goals...an amazing pass on the powerplay, a rip PP one-timer to the top corner, an incredible individual effort by Gavin Hayes and then a 2on1 at the end.

A big part of that is how well teenagers can execute things. A pass that isn't in the right spot or one that isn't handled well can lead to breakouts where that kind of mistake is less likely to happen with pros. If you go from watching OHL to even AHL, it's night and day the level of execution. Even bad teams have pretty consistent tape to tape passes. OHL players are also way more prone to missing an assignment. Even more so in a system that has super fluid player movement. Pros would be better about that kind of thing. Lazary has also said he's cool with guys making mistakes along the way. It'll come with the territory. Some GM's will certainly be looking for a more traditional coach but I think Lazary could work if you give him pros to work with.

 

[DWI Dale]

That's an apples to oranges comparison.

Daley's incident was confirmed after a thorough investigation and action was taken. We have good reason to believe that his claims are true.

Smith's claims were not investigated or acted upon and were also refuted by multiple, reliable, firsthand accounts and thus, easily proven to be false.

Smith was in hot water for flipping the bird to a bunch of children and senior citizens and made some unverifiable claims of racist taunts from the crowd that Josh Brown took as gospel and ran with. It's not crazy to suggest this was to distract from Smith's own actions. Personally I find Josh Brown to be too close to the organization, lacking integrity, and a big whiner so I take what he says with a grain of salt. Farwell however is the man and I trust his takes on things.

Daley's issue wasn't brought up as "whataboutism", and was corroborated by the players who were subjected to Beezers racist tirade, the organization, and Beezer himself.

I will add, this doesn't mean Givani's claims were not true. I heard a few racist comments from some hillbilly first hand on Jan. 12th vs. Guelph that were made about Rylan Singh so it's not like the Soo or any other team is without bigoted boneheads in the stands. To pretend otherwise is pure homerism.

 

[bobber]

A big part of that is how well teenagers can execute things. A pass that isn't in the right spot or one that isn't handled well can lead to breakouts where that kind of mistake is less likely to happen with pros. If you go from watching OHL to even AHL, it's night and day the level of execution. Even bad teams have pretty consistent tape to tape passes. OHL players are also way more prone to missing an assignment. Even more so in a system that has super fluid player movement. Pros would be better about that kind of thing. Lazary has also said he's cool with guys making mistakes along the way. It'll come with the territory. Some GM's will certainly be looking for a more traditional coach but I think Lazary could work if you give him pros to work with.

Great points Kingpin. This is why you see soo many skilled OHL players struggle in pro at any level. It's a massive difference.

 

[SSMHoundsFan]

I felt like the Spirit controlled the play in the first two periods and they were winning most of the 50/50 pucks but that the Soo was still somehow getting the better scoring chances despite the 3-1 score. The 3rd period was all SSM and it wasn't even close.

I feel the exact opposite tbh, easy to say this when Saginaw was on the PP most of the first two periods...the amount of Grade A scoring chances the Hounds had when we weren't on the PK was only matched by Oke's stellar play keeping us off the scoresheet....3rd period that all came crashing down though...

 

[donjohnson]

I feel the exact opposite tbh, easy to say this when Saginaw was on the PP most of the first two periods...the amount of Grade A scoring chances the Hounds had when we weren't on the PK was only matched by Oke's stellar play keeping us off the scoresheet....3rd period that all came crashing down though...

You feel the opposite but you essentially restated my post...thanks I guess?

 

[donjohnson]

A big part of that is how well teenagers can execute things. A pass that isn't in the right spot or one that isn't handled well can lead to breakouts where that kind of mistake is less likely to happen with pros. If you go from watching OHL to even AHL, it's night and day the level of execution. Even bad teams have pretty consistent tape to tape passes. OHL players are also way more prone to missing an assignment. Even more so in a system that has super fluid player movement. Pros would be better about that kind of thing. Lazary has also said he's cool with guys making mistakes along the way. It'll come with the territory. Some GM's will certainly be looking for a more traditional coach but I think Lazary could work if you give him pros to work with.

100% correct...since this Spirit group has largely been together since the Covid years, it's pretty easy to see what it was like when we were a rookie-filled team and now a veteran filled team. The breakout passes are on the tape a majority of the time this year and 2 years ago they missed people like crazy.

Only reason I see it struggling even with the advanced skill level in the pro leagues is that you're still going to give up more odd-man chances than the rest of the teams in the league. You have the ability to have more lopsided wins but you also have the risk of lopsided losses. For the nerds out there, it's basically a larger standard deviation. Some Owners/GM's would rather limit their risk and have a lot of 2-1 games or 3-2 games. Others are willing to roll the dice to have 8-3 games but the question is how much are they OK being on the losing side of a 5-1 game? That's the million dollar question for Lazary's future.

 

[bcspragu]

Smith was in hot water for flipping the bird to a bunch of children and senior citizens and made some unverifiable claims of racist taunts from the crowd that Josh Brown took as gospel and ran with. It's not crazy to suggest this was to distract from Smith's own actions. Personally I find Josh Brown to be too close to the organization, lacking integrity, and a big whiner so I take what he says with a grain of salt. Farwell however is the man and I trust his takes on things.

Daley's issue wasn't brought up as "whataboutism", and was corroborated by the players who were subjected to Beezers racist tirade, the organization, and Beezer himself.

I will add, this doesn't mean Givani's claims were not true. I heard a few racist comments from some hillbilly first hand on Jan. 12th vs. Guelph that were made about Rylan Singh so it's not like the Soo or any other team is without bigoted boneheads in the stands. To pretend otherwise is pure homerism.

when I had season tickets in Saginaw I routinely had parents of opposing teams (and sometimes even Saginaw parents) sit behind me. I’ve heard the parents of a player on an opposing team and one Saginaw parent just absolutely going off on players from thier own sons teams with racial and nationalistic under tones. Probably unsurprisingly both those players were traded to different teams within days of those incidents

If parents of the players can be that toxic, I’m not shocked random fans wouldn’t be as bad or worse

 

[Kingpin794]

when I had season tickets in Saginaw I routinely had parents of opposing teams (and sometimes even Saginaw parents) sit behind me. I’ve heard the parents of a player on an opposing team and one Saginaw parent just absolutely going off on players from thier own sons teams with racial and nationalistic under tones. Probably unsurprisingly both those players were traded to different teams within days of those incidents

If parents of the players can be that toxic, I’m not shocked random fans wouldn’t be as bad or worse

Had Todd betuzzi sit behind me at a game once while he was watching Tag play. Spent the entire time complaining about the coach, the teammates, and “the stinky Russians”. Fun family.

 

[Kingpin794]

 

[Kingpin794]

One thing I noticed when they were interviewing Misa last night is that he has grown a ton from last year. Draft day he was listed as 5 foot 9, 157lbs. EP has him at 6 foot 1 and 174 now. And he looks it. I think he's still getting use to this growth spurt. 4 inches and nearly 20 lbs is a bit of a change. But man when he acclimates, he's going to be hard to knock off the puck.

 

[bcspragu]

One thing I noticed when they were interviewing Misa last night is that he has grown a ton from last year. Draft day he was listed as 5 foot 9, 157lbs. EP has him at 6 foot 1 and 174 now. And he looks it. I think he's still getting use to this growth spurt. 4 inches and nearly 20 lbs is a bit of a change. But man when he acclimates, he's going to be hard to knock off the puck.

And he’s already out scoring every other 07 in the league by 11 points.

 

[OMG67]

One thing I noticed when they were interviewing Misa last night is that he has grown a ton from last year. Draft day he was listed as 5 foot 9, 157lbs. EP has him at 6 foot 1 and 174 now. And he looks it. I think he's still getting use to this growth spurt. 4 inches and nearly 20 lbs is a bit of a change. But man when he acclimates, he's going to be hard to knock off the puck.

He’ll be a pretty big force for the Steelheads next year!

 

[Kingpin794]

 

[Kingpin794]

Road team has won every game between us and the Soo. This is so weird.

 

[BThumme]

First career shutout for Andrew Oke, not a bad time to get that. One of the more complete games I've seen out of this new Saginaw team. Should make for an enjoyable bus ride back (unless they are staying up for the Northern Trip?

 

[Kingpin794]

 

[bcspragu]

Love that the “shut the net down” after a shutout has worked its way from from Ivan, to Tristian, now to Andrew