I don't understand why Buffalo is trying to trade him if he's this valuable to the team. I feel like Buffalo fans are a little bi-polar on this guy.
Rumor: Sabres trying to trade Ristolainen
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I don't understand why Buffalo is trying to trade him if he's this valuable to the team. I feel like Buffalo fans are a little bi-polar on this guy.
Mattilaus
Registered User
If you don't understand you aren't trying very hard. We have 5 RHD and we desperately need help on F. We aren't trading Montour as we just got him last year, not trading Miller as we just traded for him this off season, Bogo is hurt and sucks so he has no trade value. We don't need Risto as much anymore for the powerplay with Dahlin. How do you propose we improve our forwards? A player can be good but also be dealt to improve areas of weakness. I don't know how you can't understand this. You need to give something good to get something good.
Okay... So you want to move him, but you want equal value to what he USED TO provid YOUR team rather than what he would provide his new team? Probably not gonna work out. If you take away Risto's PP time, he's gonna struggle to crack 30 points. And he doesn't exactly have a stellar defensive game to fall back on. So asking for guys like Ehlers and Cirelli is kind of insane.
Team Cozens
Registered User
I’m sure Botterill’s interest in Mantha could be traced back to being a GM for team Canada at this years WC. Yzerman was with Tampa at the deadline where there has been lots of speculation. Maybe Botts and Yzerman have carried on those conversations.
Sabres add.
Sabres add.
sufferer
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- Dec 6, 2017
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I agree. I'd be floored if Risto without a significant add landed any of those guys, including someone like Mantha. It's just not at all realistic.
Yeah, Mantha maybe because, I'm assuming, Risto would get PP time in Detroit? So that one makes some sense. I think his new role would be the key factor in what kind of return he could get. I can't see teams like TB or WPG offering a Mantha-value player.
Mattilaus
Registered User
Okay cool, that's a good straw man but what does this have to do with not understanding how Sabres fans can like him but still also be okay with trading him? If you want to argue price that is fine, that's a different discussion, but that has nothing to do with your original point of Sabres fans being bi-polar and not understanding why we want to trade something we see as having value.
CupsOverCash
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- Jun 16, 2009
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Seemed to me like he understood your point but then was wondering about why the price is so high and argued why it shouldnt be as high.
780il
edm
Hot take: out of Taylor Hall, Jordan Eberle, Ryan Nugent-Hopkins, only the Nuge will end up with a Stanley Cup, and it will be somewhere wack like San Jose when they trade for him after Thornton retires.
All I was arguing was the price. When I said "bi-polar," I'm talking about the wildly different perceptions you read on the guy from Sabre fans.
I understand wanting to trade him. I don't understand "needing" to trade him and holding out for value that other teams can't/won't pay, because he would be in a drastically reduced role on most teams.
That said, Detroit would make a lot of sense. So I get Mantha, but not Ehlers, Connor, Cirelli, etc. The idea that Buffalo should get one of those players or "just keep him" is something I don't quite understand. I think the value has to be somewhat in line with what Risto would provide his new team, and he's worth a lot more to some teams than others. Ideally, you want a team where he can have the same offensive role but, somehow, a much reduced defensive role. If you can find that team, I understand a high price. Or at least a reasonably high price.
780il
edm
It would hurt deep inside if Nuge left to go to a divisional rival. I'd be happy for him getting a ring after enduring the massive shit show here with complete class but it would be bitter sweet for sure.
It's okay, the great thing about my hot takes is that nobody cares when you end up being a moron
Mattilaus
Registered User
What price? He hasn't been traded and these boards have everything proposed from Cirelli and Ehlers to Brian Little and Alex Goligoski. Mantha has been a name bandied about by a Sabres and he seemed fine with it. People on these boards always look at the highest price a single guy ever suggested and then ask why "all sabres fans" have set the price so high and ask why we are bi-polar.
Martin Skoula
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- Oct 18, 2017
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He's going to look bad on a competent team. No one else is going to feed him soft minutes and 4+ minutes of PP time. He should stay on basement teams so his fans have an excuse every time he gets dog walked.
Mattilaus
Registered User
The vast majority of Sabres fans don't feel like we do "need" to trade him. If we can't get a piece we need then we would rather keep him. This is the position of like 90% of Sabres fans. We are fine with moving him if it helps us with other areas of weakness as he is a piece that has value and can get value back, but we don't need to move him if nobody is paying anything aside from cap dumps and draft picks.
So there you go:
...So if you don't "need" to trade him, but are trying to trade him, the asking price is kind of high, no?
I think on most teams he plays 20ish minutes per night. On a bad team he gets a lot of PP time. I'm just not so sure a bad team would want him. I think he's more a target for good teams trying to add a puck-mover, but, the problem there is, he's still a 4/5 on most good teams, and is probably not getting any PP time. So you're kind of looking at a 30 point Dman with glaring defensive issues. So Buffalo's probably better off keeping him.
CupsOverCash
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- Jun 16, 2009
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People are always overrating their own players. I agree with his point that he made about thinking about where a players value would be to a future team and not your own. A typical mistake that is made on this website.
cramdizzl
cram it
Top 5 in overall ice time among defenseman 4 years straight. That means playing against top lines every night. You're clueless.
WeDislikeEich
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- Jun 22, 2015
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Um...what?
Risto was fed soft minutes? Seriously?
He has been treated like he is a top 5 defenseman in the entire NHL, playing 24-26 mins a night (he’s even hit 30mins a game at times) against the other team’s top lines while carrying the corpse of whoever his crappy d partner was.
Saying Risto has been sheltered or fed soft minutes is the complete opposite of the truth
Mattilaus
Registered User
In what world does the price go down if a team doesn't need to trade a player? If a team doesn't need to trade a player the price for that player goes up, not down. If you don't feel the need to trade a player you don't make him cheap to other teams.
Just to clear things up, Friedman never said that Botterill is interested in Mantha specifically. He simply gave Mantha as an example of the kind of player that he thinks Botterill is seeking.
CupsOverCash
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I dont think it means that the player's value automatically goes up. You have to think about the value of the player AND what he could bring to another team. The value he has will vary from team to team. For example, Buffalo fans may say that Ristolainen's value to trade him to TB is Cirelli plus, that may be the case to Buffalo fans but TB fans know that Cirelli has more value to us than Risto would simply because Risto would most likely be #4-6 for us. Most likely wouldnt play on the PP1 with Hedman here. Cirelli while is a 3 C for us, he is showing that he should at least be considered for top 6 going forward and he is an amazing PK player which any team would love to have.
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