Rumor: Sabres trying to trade Ristolainen

[Yatzhee]

Sabre fans would like Cirelli in return from Tampa but Risto is worth MORE than RNH? Since when was Cirelli more than that??

Because some Buffalo fans see the newest shiny toy in the store window and, like that dog from the movie, as they are talking coherent, common sense hockey talk all of a sudden scream SQUIRREL! and run in that direction. Sad, but true.

In what world? 69 pt player vs a 40 pt defender who can't defend.

I agree GhostfaceWu, but Risto can defend to some extent, he's a great 3/4 defender, and a point producer, on the PP as well. So, let's just say it would be a piece type deal, just for the sake of friendly conversation. Is RNH even available at this time, or do you think the Oilers will wait until that trade deadline in 2 years to move him, before his contract is up, or re-sign him?

 

[krutovsdonut]

neutral bystander here: oilers are surely looking for fire extinguishers not more burning tires. rnh is a solid forward for them and they have no forward depth. no way are they moving him to take a gamble on a young risto getting his act together. that would literally be hall/larsson 2.0.

 

[These Are The Days]

Because some Buffalo fans see the newest shiny toy in the store window and, like that dog from the movie, as they are talking coherent, common sense hockey talk all of a sudden scream SQUIRREL! and run in that direction. Sad, but true.

Whatever it is it doesn't make sense. RNH is one of the better 2C's in the league and Cirelli doesn't even play 2C on his own team. But whatever it is, it has nothing to do with Risto -a PP specialist who wouldn't even play the PP on Tampa. It's insane

 

[93LEAFS]

Why would Jeff Skinner veto a trade last year at the draft to the Los Angeles Kings? Why would he only approve a trade to Buffalo? Why voluntarily accept a move from nice warm North Carolina to come to Buffalo, NY? Why would a star player turn down the lights and glamor of Los Angeles, California to come to dreary depressing Buffalo?

Posts like yours assume far too much about every single players psyche, night and family life. What if someone would prefer to be a big fish in a small pond then a small fish in a big pond?

Carolina sucked and wasn't a playoff team, and was entering the last year of his contract. You seriously expect Johnson to accept a trade to Buffalo from a contending Tampa team? Which situation do you think is more likely mine or yours? He got a NTC for a specific reason. He plays for a better team and is better off economically, and its not like he gets any closer to home like Skinner did.

Skinner wanted to move on, although end up closer to home. Johnson appears to have no interest in moving on, I don't think he'd accept a trade anywhere, but if he was, I don't see Buffalo having that convincing a case. He's taxed more, its a worse team, it has worse weather and it is just as far from his home town.

 

[Asymmetric Solution]

In what world? 69 pt player vs a 40 pt defender who can't defend.

* a career average 48 point center for a career average of 40 point defensemen. We can even get in to the metrics of McDavids sheltering of RNH or the fact that Risto never had anyone until Dahlin arrived as a rookie last year.

 

[Chainshot]

As a Sabres’ fan, what would your reaction and mood be if it was announced that Ristolainen was traded for Nugent-Hopkins in a 1 for 1 deal?

As an Oilers’fan, what would your reaction and mood be if it was announced that Nugent-Hopkins was traded for Ristolainen in a 1 for 1 deal?

I don't like RNH in the least, so hopefully that wouldn't be the deal.

 

[Jim Bob]

In what world? 69 pt player vs a 40 pt defender who can't defend.

RNH has hit 60 pts once in his career. Over the last 4 seasons, he has averaged less than 50 pts per season.

Risto has hit 40+ points each of the past 4 seasons.

 

[tsujimoto74]

Because some Buffalo fans see the newest shiny toy in the store window and, like that dog from the movie, as they are talking coherent, common sense hockey talk all of a sudden scream SQUIRREL! and run in that direction. Sad, but true.

I agree GhostfaceWu, but Risto can defend to some extent, he's a great 3/4 defender, and a point producer, on the PP as well. So, let's just say it would be a piece type deal, just for the sake of friendly conversation. Is RNH even available at this time, or do you think the Oilers will wait until that trade deadline in 2 years to move him, before his contract is up, or re-sign him?

Or because Cirelli is already more competent in his own zone as a 21-year-old playing his first full season than RNH has ever been in his career.

Not so mention the offensive upside. Cirelli was 1 goal shy of hitting 20+20 from the 3rd line while getting practically 0 PP time. RNH is who he is---and when he's not the beneficiary of playing with McDavid on the PP, that's a 45-55 point player who brings little besides offense to the table. Ristolainen produces nearly the same amount from a position much less conducive to offensive production.

 

[tsujimoto74]

neutral bystander here: oilers are surely looking for fire extinguishers not more burning tires. rnh is a solid forward for them and they have no forward depth. no way are they moving him to take a gamble on a young risto getting his act together. that would literally be hall/larsson 2.0.

RNH wouldn't be the 2C on a team with Point and Stamkos either.

 

[Yatzhee]

Or because Cirelli is already more competent in his own zone as a 21-year-old playing his first full season than RNH has ever been in his career.

Not so mention the offensive upside. Cirelli was 1 goal shy of hitting 20+20 from the 3rd line while getting practically 0 PP time. RNH is who he is---and when he's not the beneficiary of playing with McDavid on the PP, that's a 45-55 point player who brings little besides offense to the table. Ristolainen produces nearly the same amount from a position much less conducive to offensive production.

I respectfully disagree on Cirelli. As I've already commented on, he was heavily sheltered on a stellar Lightning roster. His D zone starts aren't indicative of what Botterill will be looking for imo, and furthermore, moving him does 0 to help Tampa's cap problem.

As for RNH, I don't believe he is available, nor do I believe Botterill has any interest, it was just a friendly inquiry to gauge what Oilers fans felt.

 

[tsujimoto74]

I respectfully disagree on Cirelli. As I've already commented on, he was heavily sheltered on a stellar Lightning roster. His D zone starts aren't indicative of what Botterill will be looking for imo, and furthermore, moving him does 0 to help Tampa's cap problem.

As for RNH, I don't believe he is available, nor do I believe Botterill has any interest, it was just a friendly inquiry to gauge what Oilers fans felt.

Cirelli was somewhat sheltered, but there's every reason to believe he's capable of growing into a larger role than the one he occupied as a rookie. There's no reason to believe RNH will ever be anything other than the player he has consistently been for the last several years.

Of course he's not available---Tampa couldn't afford to trade away someone producing on their ELC even if they were head-over-heels in love with the player they were getting back---but that's not really the point. The whole conversation is a hypothetical exercise in player valuation. I'm explaining why I value Cirelli more.

 

[Rasmus CacOlainen]

Friedman said the ask is someone like Mantha. Exactly where I am at. Ehlers, Cirelli, Mantha, Boeser, Connor type is what I am asking for if Im Botts and if no one agress, I keep him. Sense is that as expected they have learned from the ROR fiasco. Thats all I wanted to hear on that topic. No stop with the crap package of useless picks/prospects and shot vets, no interest in these at all from our GM. We need to be closer to playoffs, not going for another rebuild.

 

[Hunter368]

Friedman said the ask is someone like Mantha. Exactly where I am at. Ehlers, Cirelli, Mantha, Boeser, Connor type is what I am asking for if Im Botts and if no one agress, I keep him. Sense is that as expected they have learned from the ROR fiasco. Thats all I wanted to hear on that topic. No stop with the crap package of useless picks/prospects and shot vets, no interest in these at all from our GM. We need to be closer to playoffs, not going for another rebuild.

Fair for one team to ask/hope/expect "x" return but if Chevy traded Connor/Ehlers for Ristolainen he may need armed escort around the city for the next several months. The idea that some media has thrown out there of Ristolainen to the Peg.....at rumoured cost of one of those guys has not been well received to say the least and that's just rumours.....if it actually happened Jets would have a significant PR nightmare to deal with. Not hating on Ristolainen but he's not the solution the Jets need......and if he's not the solution giving up a young significant asset with long term just to "settle" on something just because nothing better out there available is horrible asset management and terrible idea. Jets need a two way defensive responsible Dman.......not hating Ristolainen but that's not him. I personally would take a gamble on Ristolainen for lesser piece(s), but not Ehlers/Connor in a million years, but as you say Sabres can't be rebuilding forever so that wouldn't be appealing to the fans. Where ever he ends up I hope you guys do good.......just not from the Jets hahaha.

 

[Rasmus CacOlainen]

Fair for one team to ask/hope/expect "x" return but if Chevy traded Connor/Ehlers for Ristolainen he may need armed escort around the city for the next several months. The idea that some media has thrown out there of Ristolainen to the Peg.....at rumoured cost of one of those guys has not been well received to say the least and that's just rumours.....if it actually happened Jets would have a significant PR nightmare to deal with. Not hating on Ristolainen but he's not the solution the Jets need......and if he's not the solution giving up a young significant asset with long term just to "settle" on something just because nothing better out there available is horrible asset management and terrible idea. Jets need a two way defensive responsible Dman.......not hating Ristolainen but that's not him. I personally would take a gamble on Ristolainen for lesser piece(s), but not Ehlers/Connor in a million years, but as you say Sabres can't be rebuilding forever so that wouldn't be appealing to the fans. Where ever he ends up I hope you guys do good.......just not from the Jets hahaha.

You are out to lunch if you think a GM cares about what a fanbase thinks about a trade. Just ask Bowman regarding Jokiharju for Nylander. They will continue to try to sell the move the way they see it to the fanbase. I am not pretending to know if WPG want to do any of that, but this is the ask clearly in the real non-HFBoards world.

 

[Fourier]

I agree GhostfaceWu, but Risto can defend to some extent, he's great 3/4 defender, and a point producer, on the PP as well. So, let's just say it would be a piece type deal, just for the sake of friendly conversation. Is RNH even available at this time, or do you think the Oilers will wait until that trade deadline in 2 years to move him, before his contract is up, or re-sign him?

It would be no secret to anyone on the Oiler board that I am a fan of RNH so take this post with that in mind. But I doubt RNH is available unless we are talking a package that would see a significant upgrade either offensively or a true top pairing defenseman. But I would be shocked if he was available for Risto.

My argument is strictly from the Oiler's perspective. I will leave it up to Sabre's fans to comment on their side of the deal.

What the Oilers need is better defensemen 5 vs 5 long term. Someone who can push Larsson to a second pairing, someone who can handle the defensive side of a top pairing while being able to really contribute to the offense at ES would be helpful. But this is not Risto.

Here are the ES numbers over the last 3 years:

ES points:
1) Nurse 68 in 208 = .3269 pts/g
2) Risto 63 in 230 = .2739 pts/g
3) Klefbom 52 in 209 = .2488 pts/g
4) Larsson 51 in 224 =.2278 pts/g
5) Russell 46 in 218 = .2110 pts/g

So over an 82 game schedule Risto would outscore Larsson at ES by a little less than 4 points based on these rates. And the gap between Nurse and Risto is larger than the gap between Risto and Larsson.

As for the eye test when I watch Risto at ES I do not see a dynamic offensive defenseman. In particular I don't see a guy who is really any better than what the team already has in getting the play started. Given the weaknesses he has defensively trading RNH for him would not make a whole lot of sense for the Oilers. They have a far better chance of one of their young defensemen (Bouchard, Bear, Persson) filling the RHD role on the pp than they do that one of their prospect forwards can fill RNH's shoes.

 

[Djp]

Here are the ES numbers over the last 3 years:

ES points:
1) Nurse 68 in 208 = .3269 pts/g
2) Risto 63 in 230 = .2739 pts/g
3) Klefbom 52 in 209 = .2488 pts/g
4) Larsson 51 in 224 =.2278 pts/g
5) Russell 46 in 218 = .2110 pts/g

So over an 82 game schedule Risto would outscore Larsson at ES by a little less than 4 points based on these rates. And the gap between Nurse and Risto is larger than the gap between Risto and Larsson.

As for the eye test when I watch Risto at ES I do not see a dynamic offensive defenseman. In particular I don't see a guy who is really any better than what the team already has in getting the play started. Given the weaknesses he has defensively trading RNH for him would not make a whole lot of sense for the Oilers. They have a far better chance of one of their young defensemen (Bouchard, Bear, Persson) filling the RHD role on the pp than they do that one of their prospect forwards can fill RNH's shoes.

at ES it matters who you are playing with I would guee Klefbom is spending more time with McDavid at ES than Risto is with Eichel

 

[Chainshot]

I’m glad Elliotte threw out some names, but it’s gonna have to be both roster need and a cap fit to make a move. And if it isn’t there now, there’s no reason to force it right now.

Edit: And I wish Siri knew how to spell Friedman’s first name by now. It’s not like I’m in an ET discussion group or something LOL

 

[Jim Bob]

Here is what Elliotte Friedman said on his pod.

 

[lomiller1]

Friedman said the ask is someone like Mantha. Exactly where I am at. Ehlers, Cirelli, Mantha, Boeser, Connor type is what I am asking for if Im Botts and if no one agress, I keep him.

Ristolainen is a powerplay specialist. There is literally nothing else he does well. Giving up any of those assets to get him should be a fireable offence.

 

[jcbeze]

Ristolainen is a powerplay specialist. There is literally nothing else he does well. Giving up any of those assets to get him should be a fireable offence.

well, some GM is getting fired soon then...

 

[AfroThunder396]

There's nothing wrong with trading for Risto, he has value can can fill a role for a team.

The problem is Buffalo is shopping him like he's a top pairing guy and asking for a top pairing return when he just simply isn't that good.

 

[LTIR Trickery]

Friedman said the ask is someone like Mantha. Exactly where I am at. Ehlers, Cirelli, Mantha, Boeser, Connor type is what I am asking for if Im Botts and if no one agress, I keep him. Sense is that as expected they have learned from the ROR fiasco. Thats all I wanted to hear on that topic. No stop with the crap package of useless picks/prospects and shot vets, no interest in these at all from our GM. We need to be closer to playoffs, not going for another rebuild.

Hahah woof. Best of luck with all of that, I wouldn't be surprised to see one of the dumber GMs of the league take him for the same reason they'd take Gudbranson though.

 

[Mattilaus]

There's nothing wrong with trading for Risto, he has value can can fill a role for a team.

The problem is Buffalo is shopping him like he's a top pairing guy and asking for a top pairing return when he just simply isn't that good.

Guys like Ehlers, Cirelli or Mantha are NOT getting you a top pair D man of similar age. Asking for one of them is not asking for top pairing return. When did people start believing that young top pairing D men are only worth a 2C or a 2nd line winger?

If you think the price is too high that is fine but that's not 24 year old top pairing D prices.

 

[Heretic]

My god, this thread really is going to pass 50 pages before he gets traded. I can't believe it. I hope he's traded before it hits 100 pages...

 

[DFC]

Whatever it is it doesn't make sense. RNH is one of the better 2C's in the league and Cirelli doesn't even play 2C on his own team. But whatever it is, it has nothing to do with Risto -a PP specialist who wouldn't even play the PP on Tampa. It's insane

This ship sailed for us when July 1 went by and Gourde was still on the team. Not really possible to make this happen unless it was around Gourde or Miller. We sent Miller to Vancouver and we elected to let Gourde's NTC kick in. Cirelli, or any ELC, makes no sense whatsoever to us.

The only way it's even possible is if we send Callahan's contract to a team on his list--I'm assuming his list is currently based on state income taxes--and then deal a ton of futures for Risto, with retention.

But I mean, if Buffalo fans didn't want to do it for Johnson ++ (which was ridiculous from our end), we can't possibly come up with that kind of package in futures for a guy who's only likely to be our #4 until Sergachev develops.