Rumor: Rumors or Proposals Thread | Who Do You Look to Move on From in the Offseason?

[Garbo Man]

Both guys try to throw big hits that don't really do anything because the puck's long gone by the time they arrive. They are both trash.

Also it's funny that people are shitting on JP's finishing when Kassian has whiffed on at least three clear breakaways in the playoffs.

Yup, while also being a huge liability defensively as well. Kassian and Archi both suck. No way you can put JP and Foegele in the same convo as them. I wouldn't mind Foegs not being traded and JP being resigned(I hope he resigns for cheap and then has a breakout season but we'll see) whereas with Archi and Kass I hope they're both gone before next season starts

 

[rec28]

I genuinely like RNH and all that he’s done as an Oiler, and he’s certainly had his moments during these playoffs, but the bang for the buck just isn’t there, imo. He’s a very smart player but brings a chronically low level of intensity to the game. Couple that with his below average physicality and barely above average offensive abilities (if you’re a low intensity player, you’d better be a constant offensive threat) and I think his cap hit can be better spent elsewhere.

As an out of left-field idea, lots of talk about what to do with Poolparty. If he can accept and build on his strength as a very strong defensive forward who can put up a few points, I wonder if he could slide into the 3C position…

edit: uh, no…

Either way, I think RNH should be on the menu for a strategic upgrade in net or on D.

 

[AddyTheWrath]

It's not realistic to go with that goaltending duo. Smith can't be the starter again next year.

I think you have to prioritize defense over goaltending. And you can only choose one of the two if you want to re-sign Kane (and that's being generous).

You can solve goaltending with a single trade in-season but defense wins championships and our d-corps does not have the right mix, IMO. Look at Carolina - any goalie that goes there ends up looking good because of their defense. That's what we should be looking to build - not trade for some miracle goalie that will come in and save the franchise.

And for the record, there aren't many good goalie options available in the offseason regardless. Maybe I could be convinced if we could somehow land an elite one.

 

[MessierII]

Who's their 'Kane type' scorer? The only elite level forwards they possess are Kucherov, Stamkos and Point. And their guys cost less.

Tampa has replenished that bottom six depth in their competitive seasons and they've paid dearly to do so.

You're ignoring the trend of depth forwards that teams routinely value for playoff runs. And you're ignoring the fact that it's been Edmonton's biggest organizational weakness in the playoffs throughout the McDavid era.

The top line works with or without Kane. The bottom six depth is still lacking though despite the fact that it improved this year.

We aren’t losing to Colorado because our depth scorers aren’t scoring enough. Our 2-4 lines have chipped in four 5 on 5 goals this series. We’re losing this series because their top guys are caving ours and our PP in the limited time it’s had hasn’t got us a big goal.

 

[belair]

Where are you getting $15.9M? I'm getting $19.4M if you trade away Barrie/Puljujarvi/Foegele for no cap back and buyout Kassian. And that's with Shore in the lineup, removing one of the roster spots you'd have to fill (see below).

View attachment 556067

With that being said, let's assume the following:

• Kane re-signs for 6M x 3 years
• Yamamoto re-signs for 2.5M x 2 years
• McLeod re-signs for 1.5M x 2 years (not arbitration eligible, IIRC)
• Kulak re-signs for 3M x 3 years
• Kuzmenko signs for 2M x 1 year? (I'm a bit murky on the ELC rules here, if there are any)
• Top 4 RD comes in at around 3.5M cap hit (probably via trade of Puljujarvi and/or Barrie, Foegele)
• League min players fill out the wings on the fourth line (Shore and Griffith are placeholders)

View attachment 556074

Also, the actual line combinations are obviously up for discussion. I'm more interested in exploring how this all fits from a cap perspective.

So you've got Draisaitl tied to two players with zero NHL experience and a fourth line with even less scoring potential than this year's. Your starters also started about 30 games between the two of them last season.

Where is the improvement coming from?

 

[AddyTheWrath]

So you've got Draisaitl tied to two players with zero NHL experience and a fourth line with even less scoring potential than this year's. Your starters also started about 30 games between the two of them last season.

Where is the improvement coming from?

So you didn't read what I said at all.

The lines are interchangeable. You move RNH and Hyman up with Draisaitl and you have a third line of Holloway - McLeod and Kuzmenko, which I'm sure most fans would be satisfied with, especially with such a deadly top 6.

And I said Shore/Griffith are placeholders. You obviously want better players there but they will be playing < 8 mins a night so really they just need to saw off defensively.

Convenient of you to also ignore the defense upgrade and pretend like a Smith/Skinner tandem is way out of left field.

 

[bobbythebrain]

We aren’t losing to Colorado because our depth scorers aren’t scoring enough. Our 2-4 lines have chipped in four 5 on 5 goals this series. We’re losing this series because their top guys are caving ours and our PP in the limited time it’s had hasn’t got us a big goal.

Basically this. And Nurse, he's been a major killer this series. More than Smith imo. A big reason our forwards are getting caved is b/c he can't cover a cycle. The amount of times you have to see Leon and McD going behind the net to break up a play when he is on the ice is bonkers

 

[belair]

We aren’t losing to Colorado because our depth scorers aren’t scoring enough. Our 2-4 lines have chipped in four 5 on 5 goals this series. We’re losing this series because their top guys are caving ours and our PP in the limited time it’s had hasn’t got us a big goal.

With Evander Kane!

Four goals from three lines over three games isn't enough. I'm surprised that you think that it is.

And it's not even just about offense. It's about suppression. A big part of negating elite offense is shadowing them defensively. Colorado has done that exceedingly well in this series.

Our team is abysmal at stopping the counter-rush and it isn't just at the fault of the defense.

Losing Kane hurts the top line's ability to score goals at will. But using that money to add multiple impactful 5v5 players is what helps you limit what the other team does to you.

 

[belair]

So you didn't read what I said at all.

The lines are interchangeable. You move RNH and Hyman up with Draisaitl and you have a third line of Holloway - McLeod and Kuzmenko, which I'm sure most fans would be satisfied with, especially with such a deadly top 6.

And I said Shore/Griffith are placeholders. You obviously want better players there but they will be playing < 8 mins a night so really they just need to saw off defensively.

Convenient of you to also ignore the defense upgrade and pretend like a Smith/Skinner tandem is way out of left field.

That still isn't good. That's a possible step backwards. Particularly when you realize that McLeod still finishes at the level of a fourth line player.

You're putting a lot of hope that two rookies can pick up the slack left by players like Warren Foegele, Zack Kassian and Tyson Barrie, who all produce in a range that is fairly difficult to reach for an average player without offensive support.

I know we love to rip on those guys on this board, but the offense they produced this season in less than favorable roles has been difficult for depth players to duplicate in Edmonton historically.

And your defensive 'upgrade' is removing Barrie and replacing him with a guy making ~$3m. Sorry to be a downer but that doesn't get you much on the free agent market. Definitely not an upgrade on Tyson Barrie.

 

[AddyTheWrath]

That still isn't good. That's a possible step backwards. Particularly when you realize that McLeod still finishes at the level of a fourth line player.

You're putting a lot of hope that two rookies can pick up the slack left by players like Warren Foegele, Zack Kassian and Tyson Barrie, who all produce in a range that is fairly difficult to reach.

I know we love to rip on those guys on this board, but the offense they produced this season in less than favorable roles has been difficult for depth players to duplicate in Edmonton historically.

And your defensive 'upgrade' is removing Barrie and replacing him with a guy making ~$3m. Sorry to be a downer but that doesn't get you much on the free agent market. Definitely not an upgrade on Tyson Barrie.

What exactly has Kassian produced all year? And Foegele in the playoffs? I'm fairly confident saying Bouchard can pick up Barrie's slack on the PP, and Tyson hasn't brought much 5v5 this year (though he has been better since the coaching change). I find it funny that you talk about limiting other teams' chances but then also campaign for keeping Barrie and Kassian, neither of whom are defensively sound. Neither is Foegele for that matter.

I'm also fairly confident that Holloway and Kuzmenko will provide at least the same level of offense that Kassian and Foegele provide. Holloway is already better than both of them.

And again, if you bothered to read my posts, I said the upgrade on Barrie would mostly likely come from the Puljujarvi trade, not from FA.

 

[MessierII]

Basically this. And Nurse, he's been a major killer this series. More than Smith imo. A big reason our forwards are getting caved is b/c he can't cover a cycle. The amount of times you have to see Leon and McD going behind the net to break up a play when he is on the ice is bonkers

100% nurse has been a mess I don’t know why they’re even playing him in this state. He can’t even skate. Keith and Bouchard just don’t skate strong enough to play at colorados pace and neither can nurse right now. It’s tough if Drai and him were even 80% this would be a series.

 

[McShogun99]

When Kane scores it's almost always a part of a play that our two generational stars are involved in.

Kane isn't the guy that stirs the drink. So I have to disagree it's two steps back if we lose him. Yep, someone else will have to score those goals, but overall replacing him with Hyman doesn't hurt that much.

You just have to make sure that money goes toward upgrades in the bottom six, where the team actually needs the help.

I like Kane but he’s not worth 7 million and isn’t a line driver. He’s also hitting the age where power forwards start to decline and he was playing half a season fighting for his NHL career. If we sign him to a big, long term contract then we will regret it by year 3.

 

[LTIR]

What's the case of Kassian being more useful than? I'm not a fan of Foegele personally, but at least that guy puts in the effort to consistently forecheck.
Kassian got to play on Connor's line last night, but still mustered a -3. He's been a complete consistent no-show for the Oilers throughout after he got his new contract extension. He's supposed to bring this 'energy' to the team, but after last night, watching him play was just the same old. He used the lack of fans being in the building as a reason for his underperformance, but what's his excuse now? The crowd was quiet last night, and it would just take one good hit from Kassian to pump them up, but all he did was get on the ice and float around. The only memorable thing Kassian has done so far in this series is rip off Byram's helmet while sitting on the bench, and that's not even worth a good memorable thing.
If anything, Kassian and his god awful contract should be traded. He's garbage.

Agree that Kassian is garbage other than his occasional hits but still sticking to my argument that Foegele or Puljujarvi have not been any better than him.

All three supposedly have size speed grit and skill to be positive contributers but have done jack all in playoffs. Neither deserve to make over 2M per as 4th liners who don't PK and the team would not skip a beat without either one

I like Kane but he’s not worth 7 million and isn’t a line driver. He’s also hitting the age where power forwards start to decline and he was playing half a season fighting for his NHL career. If we sign him to a big, long term contract then we will regret it by year 3.

And I don't see any GM other than Holland offering him more than 3 yrs... This possible suspension might actually work in our favor making him more undesirable around the league
Sticking to my 4 x 4.5M prediction ala Barrie.

 

[McShogun99]

This team is very close to being a legitimate cup contender. If I was Holland I’d be going into the off season with this blue print for the lineup.

xxxx-Mcdavid-Hyman
RNH-Draisaitl-Yamamoto
Holloway-Mcleod-JP
xxx-xxx-xxx

Nurse-Ceci
xxx-Bouchard
Broberg-xxx

xxx
Skinner

Kane will be the 1st line LW if he signs a reasonable contract. Kieth and Smith could still be with the team so they could potentially have the 2nd pairing D and starting goalie spot. I’d prefer to resign Kulak and have him take Kieths spot. The bottom pairing RD should be a defensive D and the 4th line should be big, fast and defensively responsible.

 

[syz]

This team is very close to being a legitimate cup contender. If I was Holland I’d be going into the off season with this blue print for the lineup.

xxxx-Mcdavid-Hyman
RNH-Draisaitl-Yamamoto
Holloway-Mcleod-JP
xxx-xxx-xxx

Nurse-Ceci
xxx-Bouchard
Broberg-xxx

xxx
Skinner

Kane will be the 1st line LW if he signs a reasonable contract. Kieth and Smith could still be with the team so they could potentially have the 2nd pairing D and starting goalie spot. I’d prefer to resign Kulak and have him take Kieths spot. The bottom pairing RD should be a defensive D and the 4th line should be big, fast and defensively responsible.

A team with that top pairing will never be a legitimate contender unless that first "xxx" in the goaltending slot is a Vezina candidate.

Should be more like
xxx-xxx
Nurse-Ceci
xxx-Bouchard

 

[McAsuno]

Agree that Kassian is garbage other than his occasional hits but still sticking to my argument that Foegele or Puljujarvi have not been any better than him.

All three supposedly have size speed grit and skill to be positive contributers but have done jack all in playoffs. Neither deserve to make over 2M per as 4th liners who don't PK and the team would not skip a beat without either one


And I don't see any GM other than Holland offering him more than 3 yrs... This possible suspension might actually work in our favor making him more undesirable around the league
Sticking to my 4 x 4.5M prediction ala Barrie.

I don't think either Foegele or Puljujarvi have been good in the playoffs either, but they at least have been noticeable. The line of Puljujarvi, Foegele, and McLeod have been playing relatively decent against the avs too. Kassian, however, hasn't looked good on any line he's been on including with McDavid.

 

[McShogun99]

A team with that top pairing will never be a legitimate contender unless that first "xxx" in the goaltending slot is a Vezina candidate.

Should be more like
xxx-xxx
Nurse-Ceci
xxx-Bouchard

Nurse is a legitimate top pairing even though he’s been bad this series, hopefully because of injuries and Bouchard will be a top pairing Dman in a year or 2. If there’s a goalie they should target it should be Spencer Knight or Hellybuck. Pay the price to solidify the goaltending for years.

 

[syz]

Nurse is a legitimate top pairing even though he’s been bad this series, hopefully because of injuries and Bouchard will be a top pairing Dman in a year or 2. If there’s a goalie they should target it should be Spencer Knight or Hellybuck. Pay the price to solidify the goaltending for years.

Ceci has also suffered since being elevated, either because Nurse has been that bad or because Ceci himself just isn't good enough.

*Best case* scenario for me even with Nurse somehow earning his contract would be
Nurse-xxx
xxx-Ceci
Bouchard-xxx

Either way this team needs to find a top pairing guy.

 

[Louis Cypher]

That’s 10 mill in cap but we still have a ton of spots to fill and that’s if you can move all those contracts out with no cap coming out.

Right now we have 12 mill in capspace with the following signed

Hyman - McDavid - Blank
Blank - Draisaitl - Blank
Foegele - Nuge - Blank
Shore - Ryan - Kassian
Blank- Blank

Nurse - Ceci
Keith - Bouchard
Blank - Barrie
Blank

Blank
Smith

12 mill for 4 top 9 wingers, a starter and extra guys really isn’t a lot.

But as you said if we could just move out that 10 mill worth of guys that helps, but who is taking them, and for what? And how much cap are we retaining and how much are we sending to them to take it.

The biggest issue is that defence is so locked in. Broberg doesn’t look close enough to be a top 4 regular and Keith doesn’t look like it either. Keith is not movable. So the money you get for moving out Barrie would have to be a solid second pairing defender to hopefully push Keith down and help Bouchard along.

This will be another off season where we have to make cheap adds and hope for the best.

Although I am very certain Smith/Skinner will be the tandem next year for better and worse.

No way Holland goes with a Rookie and Smith. If Smith is hurt again that doesn't leave much. They will find a older reclamation project in goal as a security blanket.

 

[McShogun99]

No way Holland goes with a Rookie and Smith. If Smith is hurt again that doesn't leave much. They will find a older reclamation project in goal as a security blanket.

Skinner is either on the team or he gets traded. 100% chance he gets claimed on waivers. Smith/Skinner is worst case scenario but with how Skinner is trending you don’t want to lose him for nothing. Either Skinner gets traded in a package for a goalie upgrade or we keep Skinner and find a better goalie then Smith to be the starter.

 

[belair]

What exactly has Kassian produced all year? And Foegele in the playoffs? I'm fairly confident saying Bouchard can pick up Barrie's slack on the PP, and Tyson hasn't brought much 5v5 this year (though he has been better since the coaching change). I find it funny that you talk about limiting other teams' chances but then also campaign for keeping Barrie and Kassian, neither of whom are defensively sound. Neither is Foegele for that matter.

I'm also fairly confident that Holloway and Kuzmenko will provide at least the same level of offense that Kassian and Foegele provide. Holloway is already better than both of them.

And again, if you bothered to read my posts, I said the upgrade on Barrie would mostly likely come from the Puljujarvi trade, not from FA.

In 58 games Kassian scored 19 points averaging about 12 minutes a night. Over a full 82 game season, that's about 25 points. We had seven forwards that did that this season. Puljujarvi and Foegele were two of them.

I don't have to breakdown your entire post to show you why that depth chart is weaker than what you started with. And $3m is very unlikely to get you an upgrade on Tyson Barrie regardless of where that player comes from.

That's fantastic that you have so much faith in our prospects to perform at the NHL level. But I have significantly less faith when you see how much a superior team in Colorado is sheltering a better and older prospect like Alex Newhook in this series.

To beat teams like this you have to get better than them.

 

[Fourier]

With Evander Kane!

Four goals from three lines over three games isn't enough. I'm surprised that you think that it is.

And it's not even just about offense. It's about suppression. A big part of negating elite offense is shadowing them defensively. Colorado has done that exceedingly well in this series.

Our team is abysmal at stopping the counter-rush and it isn't just at the fault of the defense.

Losing Kane hurts the top line's ability to score goals at will. But using that money to add multiple impactful 5v5 players is what helps you limit what the other team does to you.

You aren't adding multiple impactful 5 vs 5 players with $6M. Unless you are really lucky you are getting Kassian/Foegele quality.

Here are the UFA forwards with cap hits between 2-3.5M

22. Chris Tierney	OTT	28	C	Left	70	6	12	18	0.26	-12	72	0.08	12:24	-	-	-	-	-		UFA	$3,500,000	$4,200,000
23. Dmitrij Jaskin		29	RW, LW	Left	12	0	1	1	0.08	-6	23	0.00	14:47	-	-	-	-	-	M-NTC	UFA	$3,200,000	$3,200,000
24. Antoine Roussel		32	LW	Left	53	4	4	8	0.15	-16	59	0.07	12:08	-	-	-	-	-	M-NTC	UFA	$3,000,000	$1,900,000
25. Jay Beagle		36	C	Right	33	1	1	2	0.06	-20	24	0.04	13:47	-	-	-	-	-	M-NTC	UFA	$3,000,000	$2,200,000
26. Andreas Athanasiou		27	LW, RW	Left	28	11	6	17	0.61	7	71	0.15	15:14	-	-	-	-	-		UFA	$2,700,000	$2,700,000
27. Frank Vatrano		28	RW, LW	Left	71	18	14	32	0.45	4	161	0.11	13:09	-	-	-	-	-		UFA	$2,533,333	$2,600,000
28. Valeri Nichushkin		27	LW, RW	Left	62	25	27	52	0.84	21	180	0.14	19:01	-	-	-	-	-		UFA	$2,500,000	$2,800,000
29. Cody Eakin		31	C	Left	69	4	8	12	0.17	-15	74	0.05	13:35	-	-	-	-	-		UFA	$2,250,000	$2,500,000
30. Evander Kane		30	LW, RW	Left	43	22	17	39	0.91	25	152	0.14	19:27	-	-	-	-	-	NMC	UFA	$2,108,696	$1,375,000
31. Rocco Grimaldi		29	LW, RW	Right	7	0	0	0	0.00	0	8	0.00	10:55	-	-	-	-	-		UFA	$2,000,000	$2,000,000
32. Vladislav Namestnikov		29	RW, LW, C	Left	75	16	14	30	0.40	2	91	0.18	14:38	-	-	-	-	-		UFA	$2,000,000	$2,500,000
33. Calle Järnkrok		30	LW, C, RW	Right	66	12	18	30	0.45	-14	101	0.12	16:02	-	-	-	-	-		UFA	$2,000,000	$2,000,000
34. Zachary Sanford	WPG	27	LW, RW	Left	80	9	12	21	0.26	-15	104	0.09	14:18	-	-	-	-	-		UFA	$2,000,000	$2,000,000
35. Mattias Janmark		29	LW, C	Left	67	9	16	25	0.37	3	89	0.10	14:20	-	-	-	-	-		UFA	$2,000,000	$2,000,000

Tyler Pitlick made $2.2M this year. Nichushkin is the only guy on that list even in the same stratosphere as Kane. He has scored 20 goals once in his career, this year. And if he leaves Colorado he could easily get $6-7M. Victor Rask makes $4M and Ryan Strome $4.5M.

Kane at $5-6M is an absolute bargain. He is one of the best goal scorers in the NHL over the last 6 years, He is 27th over that time frame in total goals and is much higher in goals per game played with .41 g/gm which is an 82 game pace of 33 goals per year. The guy is a terrific skater and very physical. Based on production alone he is much closer to an $8.5M player than a $5M player if you had to go outside to replace him. It is only because of circumstances that you might get him in the $5-6M range.

We already know that losing Kane to keep Kassian and Foegele makes both the team and the depth worse no matter how you slice it. Frankly I'd be surprised if Holloway is not better than Kassian already.

 

[Faelko]

This season was a step forward, but losing Kane would be two steps backwards.

This team was in the toilet before we signed him, and he has delivered in a way no FA signing ever has. He and McDavid have real chemistry, his presence allows Drai to center a separate line, and he brings toughness and grit that cannot be found anywhere in our lineup.

Re-signing Kane has to be priority #1. Otherwise I am afraid we end up back where we started ....... essentially a team with no scoring depth carried by its two generational superstars.

I’d be all for Kane staying but I’m not convinced Kane wants to stay here at any price and you absolutely can’t over pay him on term or money.

 

[Cloned]

I’d be all for Kane staying but I’m not convinced Kane wants to stay here at any price and you absolutely can’t over pay him on term or money.

Pray that the Sharks dispute ends with a favourable resolution for the Oilers. If there is any way we can come out of that with Kane at 3 years for 3-4M per…

 

[Trafalgar Sadge Law]

100% nurse has been a mess I don’t know why they’re even playing him in this state. He can’t even skate. Keith and Bouchard just don’t skate strong enough to play at colorados pace and neither can nurse right now. It’s tough if Drai and him were even 80% this would be a series.

Gah I just remembered that Nurse got injured by Colorado in his last regular season game. Man now I'm even more depressed.